Era of Magic (EoMa) 4.6.2 - now on Ko-fi!

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Kowalski88
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.9.3

Post by Kowalski88 »

Hi. Glad to see this mod is still in active development. I really enjoyed playing both the era and the campaign. Got this error while playing Runemasters on the most recent steam version of the game and the mod. If I recall it right, it was the T1 berserker unit triggering it, but I might well be mistaking.

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On a side note, I've been wondering how much has two third of units having magic/precise attacks devalued terrain bonuses and positional warfare in practice? Is it still a significant factor in MP or is it less important than in vanilla?
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.9.1

Post by dwarftough »

Hi, just out of pure curiosity
IPS wrote: July 26th, 2022, 5:47 pm - Javalineer fire resistance from -5% (was meant to be 0%) to +6% (six) (will take one less fire dmg from 10 heat dmg strikes if SIX)
why exactly 6? :D Why not 10? Like, resistances that are not multiples of 10 or 5 are very rare in Wesnoth eras
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.9.1

Post by ForestDragon »

dwarftough wrote: August 1st, 2022, 1:44 pm why exactly 6? :D Why not 10? Like, resistances that are not multiples of 10 or 5 are very rare in Wesnoth eras
Well, it's about how wesnoth rounds damage (according to IPS 6% resistance reduces a 10-damage attack's damage by 1 while 5% won't), IPS seems to like focusing on very specific interactions, for better or worse.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.9.1

Post by IPS »

dwarftough wrote: August 1st, 2022, 1:44 pm Hi, just out of pure curiosity
IPS wrote: July 26th, 2022, 5:47 pm - Javalineer fire resistance from -5% (was meant to be 0%) to +6% (six) (will take one less fire dmg from 10 heat dmg strikes if SIX)
why exactly 6? :D Why not 10? Like, resistances that are not multiples of 10 or 5 are very rare in Wesnoth eras
Well, as ForestDragon said, to work for more particular cases (like how rounding down one damage point at 8, 9 or 10 dmg). While 6% fire resistance looks weird, 10% is way too high for an unit that can level up almost as fast as Default swordsman to lv3. Kharosian Impaler and Javalineer is a curious line that is inspired by more defaultish criteria and being a good unit to get very early in lv3 in survival maps as it's strong enough but maybe not that much to over-kill a lv1 unit with all hits.

Other exceptions of rare 6-8% ish values are in Lv1 - Lv2 summoners and Elementalists and I can't remember that much if other cases.

Talking about RPG issues, well, it's not possible balancing lv3 and lv4 cyclops at having ONE BRUTAL strong magical attack, the nerf will not be defenetively enough to stop this unit to be TOP Damage Carry in almost any existing RPG mode or even Survivals with upgrades. So there will be more nerf.

And about the weird message error, it usually occurs when it's opponent's turn and there is an STUNED unit, it's just an ugly and inofensive bug.

Some other RPG adjustments

Cyclops Skeleton and all Advancements
- Magical Ressistance standarization to 0% arcane and 20% to cold/Fire
Hard damage DPS, giving other mages to have a chance againist this unit because of lowered magical ressistances.
This includes necromancer and all to lv4.

Omen and all Advancement
- All-Around will be replaced to +Triple-strike
- No-Counter-attack will be replaced to +Dread (33% less damage taken)
- Lv3 and Lv4 ressistances will be the same of Lv2
- Sword (Blade) +Skilled will be adjusted to +Marksman in Lv3 and Lv4
- Sword (pierce) +Precision is adjusted to +Skilled in Lv3 and Lv4
- Remove AwE on all advancements, because of being somewhat game broken in RPG.
Special's +Dread code already exists in ageless era.

Jungle Crossbowman
- Remove the weird UNTLB_range_ and UNTLB_type secondary attack

Dreadnought
- Ranged (Spear throw) will not have +Skilled anymore.

Twin Archer Toad
- Split-Fire attack adjusted from 11-2 to 10-1

Kirios
- Lv4 arcane resistance adjustment from 50% to 40%
- Lv4 Fire/Cold resistance adjustment from 40% to 35%
- Solar-bean attack attack adjustment from 17-2 to 15-1 but will maintain +beam special

Heavy Calvary
- Trample will have +Dread special.

Elemental Archer
- Fire Arrow damage adjustment from 12-2 to 10-2
- Ice Arrow damage adjusted from 8-2 to 6-2
This is considering the recent buffs that unit received, to balance it decreased some attacks damage in RPG

Mystical Archer
- Fire Arrow damage adjusted from 12-3 to 10-3
- Ice Arrow damage adjusted from 8-3 to 6-3
- Holy Arrow damage adjusted from 16-2 to 11-2
It has so many attacks, even one physical, reason why it's correct nerfing it, appart it has more ressistances recently.

Prophet of Light
- Blinding Light +Magical will be replaced to +Magical(offensive) in RPG.

Inspired
- in RPG, Sword will have +Magic-Counter
- in RPG, Bow (pierce) will have +Magic-Counter
- in RPG, HP from 36 to 48


This is another RPG update that rebalances RPG for a better.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.9.3

Post by inferno8 »

Kowalski88 wrote: August 1st, 2022, 9:19 am Got this error while playing Runemasters on the most recent steam version of the game and the mod. If I recall it right, it was the T1 berserker unit triggering it, but I might well be mistaking.
@Kowalski: Thanks for reporting. Do you still have the replay of that match? I'd like to see it.
IPS wrote: August 3rd, 2022, 12:55 am And about the weird message error, it usually occurs when it's opponent's turn and there is an STUNED unit, it's just an ugly and inofensive bug.
Well, a bug is a bug and should be fixed, even if it only clutters the in-game chat.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.9.3

Post by Ravana »

I added wesnoth.message("set var ".. tostring(key) .. " to " .. tostring(value)) before line 232, but did not figure out the condition to see it happen.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.9.4

Post by inferno8 »

Era of Magic 3.9.4 is now available!

This update, similarly to 3.9.3, delivers another portion of RPG tweaks (by IPS) + some bugfixes.

Full changelog:

Code: Select all

## Version 3.9.4
 ### Gameplay
	* disabled the 'awe' ability in RPG mode
 ### Units
	** Darkblood Alliance:
	 * Dreadnought (RPG): removed the 'skilled' weapon special from the 'spear throw' attack
	 * Twin Archer Toad (RPG): changed the 'Split Fire' attack damage from 11-2 to 10-1
	** Destroyers:
	 * Cyclops Skeleton (and all advancements) (RPG): set fire/cold resistance to 20%, set arcane resistance to 0%
	 * Omen (RPG): replaced the 'all-around' weapon special with 'triple strike'; replaced the 'no-counter' weapon special with 'dread'
	 * Punisher (RPG): replaced the 'all-around' weapon special with 'triple strike'; replaced the 'no-counter' weapon special with 'dread'
	 * Obliterator (RPG): replaced the 'all-around' weapon special with 'triple strike'; replaced the 'no-counter' weapon special with 'dread'; set resistances to match those of Punisher; replaced the 'skilled' weapon special with 'marksman' for the sword (blade) attack, replaced the 'precision' weapon special with 'skilled' for the sword (pierce) attack
	 * Abaddon (RPG): replaced the 'all-around' weapon special with 'triple strike'; replaced the 'no-counter' weapon special with 'dread'; set resistances to match those of Punisher; replaced the 'skilled' weapon special with 'marksman' for the sword (blade) attack, replaced the 'precision' weapon special with 'skilled' for the sword (pierce) attack
	** Kharos:
	 * Kirios (RPG): changed the arcane resistance from 50% to 40%; changed the fire and cold resistances from 40% to 35%; changed the 'solar beam' attack damage from 17-2 to 15-1
	 * Heavy Cavalry (RPG): added the 'dread' weapon special to the 'trample' attack
	 * Elemental Archer (RPG): changed the 'fire arrow' attack damage from 12-2 to 10-2; changed the 'ice arrow' attack damage from 8-2 to 6-2
	 * Mystical Archer (RPG): changed the 'fire arrow' attack damage from 12-3 to 10-3; changed the 'ice arrow' attack damage from 8-3 to 6-3; changed the 'holy arrow' attack damage from 16-2 to 11-2
	 * Prophet of Light (RPG): replaced the 'magical' weapon special with 'magical offensive' for the 'blinding light' attack
	 * Inspired (RPG): hitpoints from 36 to 48; added the 'magic counter' weapon special to the sword attack; added the 'magic counter' weapon special to the bow (pierce) attack
 ### Code
	* added missing RPG check for some weapon specials
	* fixed swapped contents of Saurian_Assassin_rpg.cfg and Jungle_Crossbowman_rpg.cfg
	* fixed UNTLB_ errors for Jungle Crossbowman
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.9.4

Post by IPS »

Hi there, still viewing some aspects of lv2 and lv3 balancing pricing, it's actually quite hard to find stuff to improve their balance. But I guess I'm still finding some stuff and observations.

Still viewing certain units that are naturally weak to impact attacks to see if there was something worth to derease its price, but, seems that not much intervention can be done actually, appart of other few things.

Mystic Warriors and Sky Guardians don't need of any re-pricement because of the new weapon special in their melee, which even if not that strong, but in more specific situations it's quite worth it having it. Golem also don't need reprice because it really deals huge damage for a cost of 37g. Cosmic Eye some time ago got more impact weakness, which synergyzes with the fact of that many new units have high accuracy impact attacks. Master of Air used to be underpriced, but as more units got high acccuracy impact ranged attacks, this unit might be less strong in large randomly generated maps.

So , on Sky Kingdom's side, I would only decrease melee damage from lv3 Master mage from 9-2 to 8-2 and renaming it to "magic touch" instead of "light touch".

About another concern, hydras feel somewhat fragible in high leveled matches, this is mostly because of the fact that their base regen of +8 is more valuable in lower level but will not scale that much higher as unit grows up unlikely the damage it may take from stronger enemies and needing of more time to recover. Might not be a bad idea in increasing impact ressistance on higher level ups? will proposse.

Stridding machine and lv2 usually gives problems for tharis faction because of not having high fire/impact attacks, even considering that recently tharis got the Pain Mistress unit which at lv3 gives a significant impact melee boost in larger maps, still, will not fix this unit's issues in large maps ... but this unit is frequently abused in survival scenarios and is quite strong unit in Orocia gameplay, but I still think that the previous nerf of this unit was quite strong this time ... but needed. In my test, golem is a faster unit and usually will have the first engagement againist hydras, meaning that golem is not "that much countered" by hydra which can favour me to consider this buff.

About kharos, new waves of high accuracy impact ranged units impairs quite much the build that consisted in Silver/Gold warriors, that if strong Kharos don't have much options to consider in large maps, making them quite less versatile at large maps. I see no problem giving War Banners some more impact ressistance. Same can say of Lv3 recruiter.

About Summoners, people aren't considering that often Water Avatars or Water gods in their builds in survivals, they quite preffer spamming air elemtals/avatars or going for more regen stuff. Not talking about ressults, but I can consider of giving more impact res to lv2 and lv3 water avatar/gods.


Balance Conclutions
- Master mage melee from 9-2 to 8-2 , attack named from "Light touch" to "Magic Touch"
- Master of Elements melee rename to "Magic Touch"
- Water Avatar / God impact ressistance increase from 20% to 30%
- Lv2 and Lv3 Hydra impact ressistance from 10% to 20%
- Kharos war banner impact ressistance from 5% to 10%
- Grand Kharosian war banner impact ressistance from 10% to 15%
- Recruitment Officer impact ressistance from 10% to 20% (same as his other physical ressistances)
- Stridding machine / Dwarvish Tank fire resistance from -10% to -15% (so much bulk, quite painful to deal with, specially for tharis).
- Orcish Warbanner impact ressistance from 0% to 10% (quite impopular unit actually)


These new corrections are to protect some factional balance from new addition of high accuracy impact ranged. Will be looking later if anything else needs a slight modification, but this will be all for now.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.9.4

Post by IPS »

Off-topic, found an issue with the Skill Circle of Susceptibility, screenshot talks by itself. While observing an Ageless Era game

It's known that units that debuffes ressistances troll so hard units that naturally depend on steadfast, but double fire weakness? lol , that needs to be reviewed :P
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.9.4

Post by Ravana »

I believe it is engine limitation. It will be most drastic if you find unit with 1% base resist.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.9.4

Post by IPS »

Hello overthere, on this time I'ma show something way different than on most times... an outdated and old version of Kharos replay, which is actual version in Ageless and some general observations, considering multiple factors and more.

Even if Era of Magic factions aren't all designed to be played with multiple random Ageless units, the idea is making every day EoMa more fair betwen itself and why not, againist almost any other faction even outside of EoMa :eng:

Things that I have to mention before viewing this replay
- Most players (by not saying, huge mayority) tends to ignore Adept of Light and Calvaries, even if they're very needed.
- Like 75% of times, players using Kharos faction usually are near of doom before turn 40, not much after gobling kamikaze camp, because of deficient build.
- Some units here are pretty much outdated as of Lv3 Mistress of Light, Lv2 Fanativs which in endgame proven that their correction is pretty much needed.
- Some of my previous desitions at nerfing (specially the STRONG nerf of making Fanatic be neutral instead of lawful) is because of cosidering how brutal this unit can become using external mods or upgrade systems like XP mod or Orocia.
- Units like Elementarl Archer, Mystical Archer work different (lower accuracy slowing attack, but more magical resistant). Another case is Heavy Calvary that some time ago got some rework because as shown, it survived into an impossible situation that almost no other unit could (specially againist EoMa cyclops!)
- Both Avenger and Protector are now weaker offensively in more recent versions of EoMa, which is intended to force people to not go cheap turtle tactics and getting good ressults with going too safe. This migt not be a problem if player really plays strategically and uses actually underrated as of Elemental Archers or even Heavy Calvary or more brown warriors/white warriors.

Also, before showing the replay, will mention that I tried a build that is way so different from average players using shielders and siters of light, which on this map might not work very well, but still, Cleric having low ranged damage won't help much, reason that shows more than valid that optional 3 strikes attack will help this being more friendly for Kharosian early game.

I was uncertain about the game outcome when I lost my first unit (the Slicer I was pending XP mod on DMG upgrade), one which had tons of XP mod upgrades because in that momment I really needed it a lot, but sadly it died, but then in another time tried 2 more recruits of this, but both slicers died too.... even if the third slicer attempt was lite, it got sucessful later which shown correctly why some time ago I decided to remove both +Skirmisher and +Lawful aligment on this unit, because in the right situations, it was SUPER BROKEN. In XP mod upgrading stats using XP in units with drains costs x1.5 times more than ussual, reason why I attempted multiple times in Lv1 before obtaining drains.

Sadly for Kharos, lava factor forces players to go more aggresive, reason why they have to gamble with more aggresive builds and reason why they have high lose rate particularly in this Scrolling Survival map :P

You're free to check this ageless EoMa Kharos replay and compare some Kharosian rebalancing, even not counting the new units that actually exists in EoMa, but still I'm viewing which is a good checkpoint momment to that get updated to ageless. But I think we're close of this momment in soon, still viewing if there is no relevant stuff to await for (maybe new unit Chronomancer and few slight observations to conclude at this.
Ageless Scrolling Survival replay 20220813-224906.gz
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Spoiler:
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.9.4

Post by IPS »

Howdies, this time I will mention a detail about something ignored for real long and defenetively matters and is actually impairing units with attacks with poison specials.

Been viewing that very low values of regenerates (+2/+3/+4) healing can actually stop poioson damage. In ageless, self-heal(4) stops poison damage but unit is not cured from poison. But main point of this aspect is that poison is being countered so hard by an special that apparently is not so strong because of the unit getting cured from poison even if their regenerative capacity is poor. Similar case as of Blood Warrior getting healed +5 after a kill but additionally getting cured from poison until I reported this situation to then get removed.

Edit: forgot that in ageless, heal+2 is quite enough to stop units taking damage from poison next to unit with this healing :/ , but , about regen+2 combating too strongly poison, are we agree with this situation or changing it and giving bloodlust to lv2 cyclop?

From my point of view, regenerative values that are +2 and +3 should decrease poison damage taken from poison from -8 a turn to -6 or even -5 for these values. Maybe from values that are 4 and 5, poison dealing no damage to unit but unit no longer getting cured as of a miracle from poison withhout the aid of a unit with +cures or of a village. And in cases that are above +6 unit getting cured of poison as how it's working actually. I proposse to modify this aspect to make more clear about how poison will work as well of not cutting-off way much of poisoning attack specials which in Era of Magic is not as good as in other eras actually.

So the resume of this topic might be this in addition of other very small changes.
- Units with regenerates 2 or 3, will decrease damage taken from poison instead of getting cured from this. (Still, forgot that heal+2 units prevents unit from taking damage, but should we do this with regen+2 and solar regen +3?)
- Units with regenerates (or solar regeneration) in values of 4 or 5 will not suffer any damage from poison this turn, but not getting cured from poison without the aid of an healer or village (unless, in case of solar regeneration +5 , inferno8 decides that is more convenient curing poison instead of leaving unit poisoned)
- Units with regenerates 6 or higher , will cure poison as how it's working actually.
- Lv2 Goblin Druid could of get +Cures to treat poison.
Maybe that should be mentioned in all regeneration values if unit will self heal of poison, stop it or decrease its per turn damages.


Golden warrior buff, explanation
Viewed that this unit at lv2 has 50 HP while in Lv3 has only 56 HP (6 more HP, which for a Lv2 --> Lv3 advancament is very poor), this topic is quite critic but also logic at convincing players to sometimes use White Warriors to bulk/tank some damage, but player can still choice going bigger gamble and risking a way more strong unit as Lv3 Golden Warrior with the objective of dealing more damage in retaliation during opponent's turn. Still, 6 HP and 10% fire/cold ressistances is very low HP upgrade, even if unit is STRONG, needs of buff.
- Golden Warrior Solar regeneration values increase from +2/+4 to +3/+5 (this buff is very ghost, if very near of villages or supported by healers)
- Golden Warrior HP from 56 to 57
Even if ghost nerf, Kharos early game as shown in my Scrolling Survival is poor and not all players can face it correctly even if on late game Kharos army is very strong because of the tons of auras and support skills making even lv2 units be useful by not being exposed directly to damage.
- Solar Master Solar regeneration adjusted from +4/+8 to +5/+8 to be the same as of Lv3 Solar Guardian which have nearly almost the same max HP.
- Sun Follower solar-regen adjusted from +2/+5 to +3/+5 to match the same values as of new values of Lv3 Golden Warrior.


Even if a silly ghost buff, this is theorical balancing that even if in mayority of cases not being of huge impact, always can help this faction with weak early game.


Edit:
Used debug to summon and instant lv1 orcish assasin which hit 1 of 3 at day time (2-3 attack), Lv2 cyclop took no damage from poison from getting a special of just regen +2. This reheal fixing might impaire this unit quite hard againist poison enemies, maybe adding bloodlust+2 (on all levels) for each sucessful kill?
poison test.png
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.9.4

Post by Ravana »

It needs custom poison development to support version with lower damage to units with some healing capabilities. Highest healing/leadership applies, similar case when unit with negative healing is next to unit with +2 healing.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.9.4

Post by inferno8 »

IPS wrote: August 18th, 2022, 6:43 am From my point of view, regenerative values that are +2 and +3 should decrease poison damage taken from poison from -8 a turn to -6 or even -5 for these values. Maybe from values that are 4 and 5, poison dealing no damage to unit but unit no longer getting cured as of a miracle from poison withhout the aid of a unit with +cures or of a village.
This would probably add another layer of gameplay complexity in my opinion. :hmm: I'd stick with the way regenerates works in default to keep things simple and familiar.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 3.9.4

Post by inferno8 »

Hello, today I have something for those who like statistical data. :eng:

Bellow you will find various charts showing popularity of EoMa factions in 2021. The charts are based on MP Activity Reports posted monthly by Pentarctagon here: viewtopic.php?t=53912 I discovered these reports this morning and decided to extract EoMa faction data out of them to find out which factions were the most popular in 2021. Some of the findings are really interesting.

Notice: The data includes EoMa factions from Ageless too. This is because Ageless faction ids in [multiplayer_side] are the same as EoMa's with the exception of AE_mag_summoners and AE_mag_tharis.

Summary:

The most popular factions overall in 2021 were: Destroyers (1st place - picked 2811 times), Sky Kingdom (2nd place - 2793) and Summoners (3rd place - 2620). (the red horizontal line is the average)
2021-all-modes.png

The most popular factions in the classic mode in 2021 were: Sky Kingdom (1st place - picked 2644 times), Destroyers (2nd place - 2639) and Summoners (3rd place - 2456).
Classic
2021-classic.png
The most popular factions in the Age of Heroes mode in 2021 were: Tharis (1st place - picked 90 times), Destroyers (2nd place - 88). The third place belongs to 3 factions: Sky Kingdom, Summoners, Barbarians - all picked 75 times.
AoH
2021-aoh.png
The most popular factions in the Masters mode in 2021 were: Tharis (1st place - picked 69 times), Destroyers (2nd place - 56) and Summoners (3rd place - 55).
Masters
2021-masters.png
And finally the RPG mode. The most popular factions there in 2021 were: Summoners (1st place - picked 34 times), Kharos (2nd place - 31) and Runemasters (3rd place - 30)
RPG
2021-rpg.png
I am really surprised to see Destroyers being more popular than Summoners. This one was kind of unexpected, but it looks like players really like the alternative concept of undead EoMa has to offer, which is nice. I am also happy to see that Sky Kingdom is extremely popular. I am really proud of this faction ;)

I am going to prepare a similar report for 2022 once the year over. The results may be quite different, because EoMa has changed a lot since February 2022 so stay tuned. :D
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