Era of Magic (EoMa) 4.6.2 - now on Ko-fi!

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Kanamahk
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 4.0 - new units and 24fps standing animations!

Post by Kanamahk »

Hi,
I want to start by saying that I am a huge fan and I have been using your era for a few years now (mainly with orocia) and that I love your work and dedication in providing new updates after all those years =)

Today I have come to report what I think (after a code review) is unintended behavior on few units with customs AMLA that use the AE_MAG_AMLA_DEFAULT_CONDITIONAL macro : there sadly isn't one that works (if I correctly understood the code), they do not heal, do not gain anything (except in the few cases where TIME is more than 1 then exp is upped by 20%) and unit exp info (current exp / max exp) is replaced by "-" (only in the last TIMEth time for the few cases mentionned earlier).

The units concerned are : Cyclops Lord, Cyclops Breaker, Goblin Warbanner, Orcish Chieftain and Troll Warbanner for The Barbarians ; Atokpi Charger, Crimson Atokpi and Cyclops Necromancer for Destroyers ; Kharosian Bulwark, Kharosian Impaler, Platinum Warrior for Kharos ; Dwarvish Soldier for Runemasters ; Golden Mage for Sky Kingdom ; Banisher, Great Efreeti, Heavy Summoner and Neutral Summoner for Summoners ; Blademaster for Tharis.

From what I understand they should gain a new trait (veteran, fanatic, survivor) sometimes chained before going back to default amla, but this is not what is happening.
Unfortunately I am not familiar with wesnoth code or wesnoth mods so I have no idea why it doesn't work and only few guesses in how to fix it, but I hope this report can be helpful in solving this problem.

If this was already reported, is a known issue, or is simply not a unintented behaviour then I apologize for taking your time in reading this long post...
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 4.0 - new units and 24fps standing animations!

Post by IPS »

Kanamahk wrote: April 17th, 2023, 12:33 pm Hi,
I want to start by saying that I am a huge fan and I have been using your era for a few years now (mainly with orocia) and that I love your work and dedication in providing new updates after all those years =)

Today I have come to report what I think (after a code review) is unintended behavior on few units with customs AMLA that use the AE_MAG_AMLA_DEFAULT_CONDITIONAL macro : there sadly isn't one that works (if I correctly understood the code), they do not heal, do not gain anything (except in the few cases where TIME is more than 1 then exp is upped by 20%) and unit exp info (current exp / max exp) is replaced by "-" (only in the last TIMEth time for the few cases mentionned earlier).

The units concerned are : Cyclops Lord, Cyclops Breaker, Goblin Warbanner, Orcish Chieftain and Troll Warbanner for The Barbarians ; Atokpi Charger, Crimson Atokpi and Cyclops Necromancer for Destroyers ; Kharosian Bulwark, Kharosian Impaler, Platinum Warrior for Kharos ; Dwarvish Soldier for Runemasters ; Golden Mage for Sky Kingdom ; Banisher, Great Efreeti, Heavy Summoner and Neutral Summoner for Summoners ; Blademaster for Tharis.

From what I understand they should gain a new trait (veteran, fanatic, survivor) sometimes chained before going back to default amla, but this is not what is happening.
Unfortunately I am not familiar with wesnoth code or wesnoth mods so I have no idea why it doesn't work and only few guesses in how to fix it, but I hope this report can be helpful in solving this problem.

If this was already reported, is a known issue, or is simply not a unintented behaviour then I apologize for taking your time in reading this long post...
Yo, while I was using EoMa in EoMa ecosystem only I did not meet this issue, still I suspect that there are some chances that this is happening in Ageless Era ecosystem, please if you have a time, confirm me if my suspect was correct. If it wasn't specify in which scenario you were playing which caused this issue. As you meet the issue again, please send a replay to the forums so coders in EoMa can have a better look about what's happening exactly in here or either see if it's an issue that Ageless Era team has to fix instead.

The list of units you listed, is very familiar to me, these units have another option that can promote to higher level than them (for example, shielders can go up to lv4 Kirios, while all other options gains +veteran trait after first AMLA because of their condition of max lv3's).


Also, I've been thinking a little momment about the RPG changes I've propossed some time ago, as well of a conclusion of spectated games in multiplayer lobbies (both are different themes) but will mention that in short.

RPG adjustment (overwrites previous RPG changes on both units)
Spoiler:
Also, lastly, I want to post that I'm proud with the ressults of all balances changes in EoMa / AE's EoMa ecosystems, things that players used to abuse previously have now much more fair ressults meaning that these previous abuses (Air God, Toad spams, few other things) seems just like another normal/viable strategy with no overpowered ressults. Best thing is about viewing how Toads cannot replace anymore the WHOLE DARK BLOODED FACTION :lol: :lol: :lol:

Only thing is that I'm viewing that lv2/lv3 toads are taking bit too much damage :oops: , so I'ma consider suggesting to increase their regeneration values in lv2 and lv3 a little bit , as increase max HP or Ressistances is a more risk move .
- Lv2 toads regen value propossal to +9
- Lv3 toads regen value propossal to +10


Now it's thing of viewing more interactions in multiplayer lobbies, but other thing that calmed me real lot is at not viewing Harbinger abuse contrary to what I've guessed could of happen. But seems people are in love with Mara's drains on melee and at the momment I just saw some few Harbingers but no abuses at the momment.

Other topic but more related to AE ecosystem is that people are avoind Black Portals :hmm: , I will find a more convenient fix in the Ageless development part some time later. But I'm reconsidering that if AE retakes the un-upgradable(x) adjustment to just nerf a little ranged accuracy after gaining any extra strikes (to as well of just removing +first-strike in meleer range if players wants to have more than 1 strikes portal. :hmm:
- 2 or more strikes ranged would be +enchanted accuracy (60%) instead of 70%.
- 2 or more strikes melee would not have +first-strike , this is huge nerf considering we're talking about a 17-1 attack, and lots of times enemy dealing 1 more sucessful strike to portal could chunk them down.
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Kanamahk
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 4.0 - new units and 24fps standing animations!

Post by Kanamahk »

Hi and thanks for the quick reply!

I first encountered this issue while playing orocia but I then investigated with a normal local game on all the units that I mentionned. I tested those after looking in the code **any and all** units that had a custom level up (and shielders do not have this problem and neither does the Kirios ; I did not even mentionned them...).
I found that they all were max level, and have either (the majority of them) a macro like this one {AE_MAG_AMLA_DEFAULT_CONDITIONAL 1 veteran_then_default trait=AE_mag_veteran} (cyclop lord) or a few advancement choices directly coded in the unit file instead of {AMLA_DEFAULT}.
All those that had new advancements choices (like the max lvl salamanders from the Dark Blood Alliance) worked as intended and all that were using the AE_MAG_AMLA_DEFAULT_CONDITIONAL macro did not.

If you tell me how I can send a replay I will give one of my testing, but it is also very easy to set up with debug and I had the issue proc 100% of the time with all the units I mentionned in my first message.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 4.0 - new units and 24fps standing animations!

Post by Ravana »

IPS is saying you should test with Era of Magic. Ageless version of it is generated by scripts and if EoMa code structure has changed it is possible some files are not applied.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 4.0 - new units and 24fps standing animations!

Post by Kanamahk »

Hello Ravana,

Sorry I didn't understood what IPS was asking --'
So I was indeed having the issue in the ageless version, so I tried to replicate it with the eoma version and it worked perfectly.
I just did a quick code comparison and apart some renaming that seems to be well repercuted there doesn't seems to be any difference so I have no idea where the issue arise.

Please let me know if I can be of any more help (if what I did was even helpfulin the first place^^).
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 4.0 - new units and 24fps standing animations!

Post by Ravana »

It was useful confirmation its something I need to do during next ageless update https://github.com/ProditorMagnus/Agele ... /issues/34
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 4.0 - new units and 24fps standing animations!

Post by IPS »

Been a while the last time I mentioned about mainline EoMa changes, but there are still some ideas as well of talking about facts in EoMa :lol:

First to mention, is that very recently not very long ago there was an official upcoming default balance changes for 1.18 , which by just thinking a while, have few consecuences and one of them I don't want to fix it even if it could be considered as an issue.

1) Lowered XP requeriments over a lot of default units, helped a lot to default to do more pair to EoMa factions between the early-late game progression talking about XP management and XP demand on upgrades. Lv2 EoMa units are blatantly superior over Lv2 default units in most cases, but naturally EoMa are much XP hunger to lv3, meaning that ressults about spending an example of 250 XP over their armies ressults will now be more equivalent between EoMa an default thanks to this default's buffs.

2) The second is considered an issue , many lv3 melee getting priced higher in default era means that EoMa lv3/lv4 are underpriced if judged by defaultish criteria. Only thing is that these EoMa prices got their places out of decens of testing in several different situations, so even weakest lv3 are fair to use in the EoMa ecosystem if played againist lv3/lv4 EoMa pricing criteria. Fortunately high level pricing is a much less relevant thing compared to XP management over army progression and growing, so I'm about to do nothing about this topic :lol:

So, as I've mentioned first point is something very possitive for EoMa about being slightly more compatible to default.

Also, regards other things, there are few exceptions I could never feel comforatble with lv2 pricing in EoMa, so I'm mentioning them here.

Well... Sorcerer and his pricing it was really a pain to me in a LOT of times, in my testings that unit never acted like a 40g lv2 unit at all, and I was struggling really hard about how making that unit be worth in stats to 40g , even been in mind things like decreasing mountain movement cost to 2 , and I was really close about making him 40% swallow water defense as elementalists are, but still that's weird change. Fortunately red mage got repriced much lower (35g) and also lowered XP requeriment to lv3, so it's much easier to adjust Sorcerer price to a more "realistic price"
- Sorcerer price from to 38g (-2g)

Some time ago I decided to break that default-price-related-pattern with Dark Wizards as this unit was underperforming because of overprice as literally Storm Spheres were more accesible and in overall more useful than Dark Wizards in terms of cost efficiency. As warlocks got priced lower they started to feel useful in spending golds in them. Even I would try lowering a little more their price once again xd
- Dark Wizard price to 36g (-1g)
These are the only lv2 unit (appart of dark hunters & dark commanders) that didn't get healing bonus in tharis army, but players have to protect and cover Dark Wizards and not letting them receiving too much damage.

Other change I want to add, and it's not about price is about a fact that Lv3 Warlocks are sometimes getting trolled by his ally Matriarch of Emptiness :lol: :lol: :lol: , sometimes leaving him the last hit for a kill is very difficult and usually more tricky than how it has to be just because of allied magic-abosrber aura , which in closed spaces and where Zone of Control limits your moves a lot this is a real problem. Fortunately I got a creative fix to this issue, and would be obvious that Tharis themselves as an army have ever considered about this issue in their synergy :lol:
- Great Warlock obtaining a NEW ATTACK: Shock ball (or named dark ball too?) 7-3 impact +magical as an addition.
- in RPG, this attack doesn't exist.
- Also lv4 Master of Darkness keeps his 12-3 impact ranged implosion damages, but without +Magical special in RPG mode.

Also been watching this issue once when I saw someone struggling because the player was forced to troll his own damage outout because of STRONG zone-of-control pressence by numerous enemies, even if he could have done much better STILL it would habe been difficult even to me as it's not easy in CLOSED spaces !!!

Bonus changes because of nearly the same than dark wizard and sorcerer
- Great Jinni price to 40g (-2g) , has no traits which means will require much more XP to lv3's.
- Efreeti price to 42g (-2g) , more durable than jinni but also moves more.

And well, it's all for now.


Edit: lastly, do you consider fine required XP from lv3 to lv4 eoma? I could do a recheck on that, still eoma lv3 units are quite strong and in many times lv4 is not required, unless on very long games. Even on 70 turns survival scenarios it's just more convenient to use XP mod instead of getting a lv4 because of the high XP requeriment, still personally I don't find that like something either good or bad, appart that lv4 gain a tons of bonuses than just only HP or damages.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 4.0 - new units and 24fps standing animations!

Post by IPS »

Then some time did occur and just to mention few things in here. As I would not post to just mention a pair of changes, I've waited some time and had a more panoramic view on what's going with meta and viability of things.

- Kharosian Javalineer fire ressistance from 6% to 10%
Well , this is a quite silly change, but still maybe in some situations that higher fire ressist can help a bit.

- Avenger XP from 90 to 85
Personally I find real few use to this unit compared to Protectors, unless spending a real lot of XP in XP mod for stronger retaliations, but I do preffer using platinium warrior for that instead :lol:

- Kharosian Legionarie HP to 70 (+1)
Combined of the XP buff from lv2, it will be more notisable.

I'm tempted to buff Bishop, but people sitll don't know how powerful this unit is and could say it's easily the strongest starting leader.

- All lv3 salamanders +2 their actual HP value , XP from 110 to 105
Community is farming XP mod stats to salamanders instead of getting it to lv3.

- Mu number of ranged strikes from 12 to 11
Woah, this is hard to explain, but while 6-7 consistent damage seem not much, it's predictible, and being sure of an outcome is a very strong interaction. Appart that the unit with XP mod damage is an abuse as nothing can be ressistant to its secret type. Other more radical solution would making Mu's ranged be +Magic(offensive) but that's a more drastic change so I have tendency to preffer the -1 ranged strike option. In main EoMa this is not much a difference but in PVP and PVE with modding can be an huge difference sometimes. Good that this unit was removed already in RPG... and Afterlife players will thanks this change.

- Bone Golem XP from 90 to 85
In all time I've been watching destroyers army, I haven't seen a lv3 of this at the momment :lol: :lol: :lol:

- Greater Skeleton Cyclop XP from 100 to 90
Same as bone golem, even nerfed Cyclops necromancer is more popular.

- Infernal Vortex ranged damage from 14 to 13
More friendly to enemy lv1 mages in PVE.

- Devourer XP from 180 to 170
rare to see people owning high level piranias.

- Goblin Veteran XP from 77 to 74
Not seen a lv3 goblin invader unless people using it in Heroic AE.

- Dark Assasin XP from 88 to 84
Harder and exposed to more damages compared to leveling Great Hunter.

- Dwarvish Cannoner frozen defense from 50% to 40%.
Been considering that a lv3 version of cannoner could be a good idea, but I don't think it's really important at all. Idk, I would make him way more hybrid use than his lv2 (example 16-2 +marksman +attack only) shotgun and 16-1 pointblank & 16-2 ranged, but whatever I think this unit is so impopular just because of lv2 cap :lol: :lol: :lol:


I think that this , combined of the other previous posts, makes a decent rebalance update release, still I find better keep watching at lobbies and even playing by myself before doing more changes once again.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 4.0 - new units and 24fps standing animations!

Post by IPS »

After thinking it a while, I guess I have officially to mention that I got in mind 2 new units, one for Runemasters and the othe for Kharos... both comes from units that would normally do AMLA after their max level , which are Lv2 Cannoner and Lv3 Kharosian Impaler. As well of some reasons I think these are good ideas.

Cannoner: great lv2 unit, but quite impopular because of not having lv3. The only reason why this unit is STILL good againist lv3 is because it has STRONG early strikes being 2 strikes of high accuracy and damage unit, if the case was 9-3 for example (or even worse 7-4) this unit would be much worsely placed in lv3-lv4 matchup. Thing is that runemasters actually don't have a good pierce melee unit in the faction, which is something they're missing out. And been thinking that this unit going more hybrid range than just stronger ranger is a better way to go for its lv3 purpose.

Impaler: Even if most people don't like this much this unit at all (yeah, I know, mobile hybrid fighter with some higher than average magic ressist and also a good defense againist archers ... in an era full of mages!!) , I think it could be a more popular choice and option if this had a 150 XP tier Lv4 unit (which is around the same lv3 to lv4 XP required to Barbarian King ... which nobody tries...) , but that can of change with a better planning for a lv4 unit which even if might not be high in damages, still will be handy in many circunstances. As well giving Kharos another ranged option to deal with Lv3 Matriarch of Emptyness will always help.

- Lv2 Cannoneer XP to 85 to get to lv3.

Lv3 Cannoneer
HP: 57 , Movement: 6 , price: 54g
Gunbash 8-3 impact melee
Shotgun 12-2 pierce melee +first-strike +skilled
Shotgun 16-2 pierce melee +marksman +first-strike +attack-only
Shotgun 16-2 pierce ranged +skilled +first-strike

Well, this model of shotguns is accurate at both close and long range, this model is extremely modern and not mass produced because of high pruduction costs (still, they're not that deadly at very short range as our shotguns in real life). Or just, some kind of riffle instead of a shotgun :lol:

Being allowed to pick between melee or ranged to deal the same damage will help the unit to not only to deal more damage, but also taking less damage and to bypass +slows attacks in both ranges!. Also, 4/4 strikes of this unit can gravely wound (or kill) most lv3 mages... even 3 shots of this can take down a lv2 mage easily, reason why damage values aren't this high. Still, melee counter-attack is significantly much stronger.




- Lv3 Kharosian Impaleer XP to 140 to get to lv4.

Lv4 Kharosian Justicer
HP: 80 , movement 6 , price: 72g
11-4 pierce melee +first-strike +magic-counter +lesser-revenge
9-4 arcane melee first-strike +magic-counter +skilled +divine
21-2 pierce ranged +first-strike
19-2 arcane ranged +first-strike +divine

Ressistances:
10% on blade/impact
15% on cold
30% on fire
40% on pierce
50% on arcane

Bonuses:
50% defense in flat
Solar regeneration +4/+6 (greater than lv2 sun follower but lower than lv3 sun guardian)


Most elite impaleers become really important in Kharos society, and are given the tittle of Justicer as usually it's exceptionally rare and heroic that a soldier lives too many battles with such light equipment or without magic skills. Because of their fighting style, they're given certain type of sacred equipment that historic legends have used in historical critical fights which defined Kharos destinity and survival. This equipment while not being as magical ressistant as sun follower cult gears, still it has other advantages like being much lighter and allowing Justicer to excel in maneuverability and allow them to punish the forces of evil.

First-strike at both range, while in ranged no bonus accuracy but heavy ranged damage... will defenetively bother really much if being unlucky at trying to slow him, which is the main reason why this unit deserves its status of lv4 with only lv3 damages at both melee and ranged.


Edit: I think that this new unit COULD be a problem with +protector's aura, so I think protector aura should not work anymore in values higher than 50% , as usually it's not needed in units with really high ressists. Which leaves me to decrease his cold res to only 15% (instead of 20%) because otherwise could be a real problem. Or a better suggestion would be , not working in increasing magic ressistances when they're greater than 50% (while this limitation could not exist in physical types).


Edit: more post content to aboid quad posting.

Other suggestions:
- Lv2 Hoplite XP from 90 to 85 , AURA rework: will increase ressists by 20% , but stops working if unit's ressistaces are already higher than 50% (Unit that was 40% res , will get just pumped to 50% instead of 60%).
- Lv3 Bulwark Aura will work as it does actually, but with other name Bulwark Aura. It's exactly the same in most cases, but unlike lv2 protector aura, it can increase to above 50% , and in case both auras are present Bulwakr will get prioritized.

There is really not this much utility in getting lv3 bulwark , but enjoyning ressists higher than 50% can be a strong advantage as the higher res values grows the more notable will become a bonus on 10/20% on that ressist. So spending more golds in recruiting them OR training them to lv3 will be more more efficient combined of the XP reduction. Maybe a cap of 85% on bulwark aura? To avoid Kirios being 100% arcane ressist :lol:

- Lv3 Barbarian Lord blade ressist increase to 20%. XP from 175 to 160 . Nearly nobody is going this unit in Barbarians faction... and Orc with better physical res seem not broken to me as they are not ressistnat to arcane unlike human units.
- Lv4 Barbarian King blade ressist increase to 30%. Suggestion for a NEW AURA: Warcry , increases allied melee damages by +10% (but not to himself) and can stack with other auras and have no level restriction (it can boost lv5 or even higher). Giving more utility to this unit could help him to not be so impopular.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 4.0 - new units and 24fps standing animations!

Post by mintleaf »

Anybody else getting the bug that leaves a unit petrified permanently? A leader got petrified one game and wouldn't become unpetrified :P
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 4.0 - new units and 24fps standing animations!

Post by Toranks »

It's not a bug. It's how petrify works. It lasts the entire scenario.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 4.0 - new units and 24fps standing animations!

Post by ForestDragon »

Toranks wrote: June 1st, 2023, 7:40 am It's not a bug. It's how petrify works. It lasts the entire scenario.
Maybe he meant Sculptor's ability, which has a timer?
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 4.0 - new units and 24fps standing animations!

Post by inferno8 »

Toranks wrote: June 1st, 2023, 7:40 am It's not a bug. It's how petrify works. It lasts the entire scenario.
Just like ForestDragon said, Sculptor's "sculpt" weapon special has a timer: turn_of_unstoning=$"($turn_number| + 2)"
I just tested it and found no problems. @mintleaf: There is a possibility you were playing Ageless version of EoMa, which might be outdated and still have some old bugs which have already been fixed for 4.0. If you want, you can send me a replay, so I can investigate that further.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 4.0 - new units and 24fps standing animations!

Post by Ravana »

Sculpt does not have any commits from this year. Code review suggests if you win a scenario while unit is petrified there may be issues in next scenario. Would be nice to add prefix to weapon special as well special_id=sculpts.

It is also possible that third addon modifies sculpt_unit_information variable.
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Re: Era of Magic (EoMa) 4.0 - new units and 24fps standing animations!

Post by inferno8 »

Ravana was right (as always). The code did not "unpetrify" units at the end of a scenario. This has been fixed (hopefully) for the upcoming 4.1. @Ravana: if you believe the current code could be improved further, feel free to modify it (you have write access anyway). Btw, I've added the eoma_ prefix as you requested.

Speaking of EoMa 4.1 the new version is scheduled for release this month and will feature 2 new units including a very cool looking lvl4 unit for the Kharos faction.
So stay tuned! ;)
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