The Rise of Wesnoth 6 - Temple in the Deep

Feedback for the mainline campaign The Rise of Wesnoth.

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Hestelvar
Posts: 36
Joined: July 29th, 2016, 7:41 pm

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Temple of the Deep

Post by Hestelvar »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Easy. 1.13.4

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7, quiet unbalanced; Lenvan’s army is easy, but the Lich Lord himself is devastatingly strong.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Pretty clear. However
Retrieve the Fire Ruby (with Prince Haldric)
left me wondering whether I’d be able to recognise it.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialogue and storyline of the scenario?
Clear but minimal.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
The Lich’s magical attack.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5.

(7) What, if any, are the changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make more Tentacles emerge at intervals.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Haldric got killed by the Lich.

Remarks
I haven’t played BfW in a while so this may have changed, but a Mage of Light used to cast a (visible) halo around themselves. They still have the illuminates trait but no halo showed up on the map. Is it a bug?
Minor glitch; Haldric announces
He’s raising our dead!
even if it is Haldric who has been raised.
Attachments
TRoW-Temple_in_the_Deep_+Wesfolk_replay.bz2
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Thrash
Posts: 223
Joined: June 25th, 2010, 1:54 pm

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Temple of the Deep

Post by Thrash »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

1.12.6, Normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4 up to the point of beating the lich, then it jumps.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear. Thought by the time I got to the ruby, I forgot about it and wondered what the chest was.

The wiki confused me in talking about the holy water as I got the impression it should have been obvious from the start. Also, I found level 1 thugs more useful than the wiki implied since they do a lot of damage if you can protect them from the archers. I wasn't really sure who to give the holy water to, so I gave it to a new quick thug and it worked out well using him as a finisher of units that infantry or Burin weakened.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Beating the lich without losing key units as he's just hard to hit in his castle so you can spend turns making no-to-little progress while getting blasted with his devastating ranged attack. I didn't have enough 50+ hp units to absorb enough attacks to wear him down and got very lucky at one point with him missing 2/3 to not lose a unit. I think the thing to do is sacrifice a unit and lure him out where he is easier to hit.

Holding the south side of the water was fairly easy once I realized and adjusted to the skeletons not constraining themselves to the bridges. After the first wave, there is enough of a gap to advance to the choke points. I thought about trying to grab the choke points at the start, but then I realized Burin was the only unit fast enough to do so and beat a quick retreat.

Burin is such a natural unit for this level, but I've already got him at level 3 so it was a bit of a struggle not to have him take too much XP.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6, interesting layout.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

I still like the idea of tentacles appearing later in the scenario. Also, maybe a few more undead from some random place at the end (guarding the ruby?), as anything but a tough unit is at risk trying to approach the lich and this would them something to do.
Attachments
TRoW-Temple_in_the_Deep_replay.gz
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Seto
Posts: 7
Joined: May 15th, 2013, 12:23 pm

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Temple of the Deep

Post by Seto »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?
1.12.5, Hard

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
With my recall list? 9. I had leveled a good anti-undead force, but it turned out to be hopeless in caves. Had to reload a lot.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
No problem. I remembered the scenario anyway. I've played through the campaign two or three times, but I remember Temple of the Deep as the first scenario to ever completely stump me some 8 years ago, when I was a newbie.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Nice. As a whole, tRoW is one of the better-written campaigns, with nice dialogue and characters with some personality.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
... I didn't spare Jessene in scenario 2, so no outlaws. I didn't find the Dwarf in scenario 3, so no Dwarf. I can only imagine how much easier it would have been with some Thugs/Bandits. I feel like this scenario is the one that really punishes Haldric for being self-righteous and wanting to execute Jessene (I made that choice entirely for rp reasons, because I felt it was consistent with Haldric's zealous attitude up to that point).
My recalls: one Mage of Light, one white Mage, one Archmage, three Red Mages, two Paladins. Gave the holy water to Haldric. And recruited some Mage fodder, because it's literally the only recruitable unit that can do anything. Needless to say, mages are nice, but they don't have the staying power to withstand 2/3 Deathblades in perpetual night with max 50% defence. Even Paladins get hacked into pieces. I reloaded to avoid Haldric dying, and finished the scenario with Haldric, one MoL and one experienced Red Mage.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
I love the map and how it looks like, the great underground lake, the two paths and the varying chokepoints. But that time around, it was kinda lost on me due to sheer despair, my fun was perhaps 2 or 3. I do remember though that it's easier and more fun with good chaotic units, maybe a 6.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I don't know. I feel like it's kind of hard to balance a scenario in which players can come having such different recall lists. On a more general note, I'm starting to notice a trend in this campaign of story choices making your life significantly easier or harder. Didn't help Jessene? Get some gold, which doesn't begin to compare to the outlaws' usefulness. Chose the Midlands instead of the swamp? Say goodbye to the Loyal White Mage you could have had (and face a brutal battle to boot). Maybe that's unintended, maybe that's by design. My opinion is that while, sure, player choices should matter and should result in different outcomes, it would be more enjoyable if those outcomes were different in flavor/perks, maybe even different in the progression of the story, while being equivalent in difficulty.
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Aldarisvet
Translator
Posts: 836
Joined: February 23rd, 2015, 2:39 pm
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth: Temple in the Deep

Post by Aldarisvet »

Here are replays of an unthinkable thing - passing The Rise of Wesnoth campaign on hardest difficulty recruiting only Mages.
The game version is 1.12.6

This must be sixth scenario, I missed the order of uploading. Well that was no easy at all. Undead at the permanent night are strong and also there were many level2 units there. Also they are coming unseen from the underwater or from the caves sometimes bringing very unpleasant suprises. Also despite finishing the previous scenario quite early I got only 194 gold, so few units to fight.

Statistics:

turns 27/31
inflicted -4%
taken -3%
losses 0
kills 33
advancement 3

start gold 194
Attachments
TRoW-Temple_in_the_Deep_replay.gz
(39.9 KiB) Downloaded 594 times
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My campaign:A Whim of Fate, also see it's prequel Zombies:Introduction
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LordWolfDan
Posts: 216
Joined: September 30th, 2018, 7:31 am

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth 6 - Temple in the Deep

Post by LordWolfDan »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Easy

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Clear as usual

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- Opening line was kinda cheesy, but the revelation of the Ruby of Fire was pretty good

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- The undead. Even if I had three outlaws standing in their 70% defenses, how the hell did these undead manage to hit them precisely?!

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 6

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- It's good as usual
Konrad2
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3330
Joined: November 24th, 2010, 6:30 pm

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth 6 - Temple in the Deep

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

1.14.5, Hard

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

3

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Can't get any clearer without removing shroud and giving me the coordinates.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Enjoyable and clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Surviving the wave of lvl 2 undead without losing units.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

5

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-
Attachments
TRoW-Temple in the Deep replay.gz
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Remellion
Posts: 51
Joined: December 25th, 2015, 3:18 pm

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth 6 - Temple in the Deep

Post by Remellion »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.15.14, Commander (Challenging) (i.e. medium); blind playthrough.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7/10. Surviving the chokepoints of level 2 undead is hard, and then we have to find an angle to get in on the lich.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear enough. Probably killing the lich will tell us where the ruby is - nevermind, there's a shiny chest in the back.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Burin loves caves. I like having Burin in the caves too.
The lich came across as a generic villain character to be beaten - I expected a little more, given that he had the Ruby of Fire and all that.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I can only imagine how frustrating this scenario would be without outlaws, Burin, and mages of light (if mainly loyalist units). I had outlaws, Burin, a fair amount of disposable Thug fodder that happened to level up, and it was still a little touch-and-go at the cave chokepoints.
The first challenge was to sprint past the pool fast enough to hold the one-hex-wide chokepoints. 3-wide isn't bad, but without many tanky units at this point in the campaign, it's harder to hold.
The next challenge was to find an opening into the lich's cavern. The lich can pretty much solo kill anything at this point, even more so with an extra undead unit, so finding a way in without losing a level 2 unit is tricky.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
6/10. A somewhat annoying cave that is probably much, much worse without the outlaws.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
None?

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Sort of. I had a few too many losses in the first attempt for my taste (including an about-to-level Red Mage that whiffed the 80%+ CTK on the lich to instead hit the jackpot with the 7% chance to die.) I won anyway, but redid the scenario. (Both replays attached.)
Attachments
TRoW-Temple in the Deep replay 20210624-181507.gz
1.15.14, Challenging, English, second attempt (win)
(34.5 KiB) Downloaded 118 times
TRoW-Temple in the Deep replay 20210624-174159.gz
1.15.14, Challenging, English, first attempt (win)
(37 KiB) Downloaded 124 times
Konrad2
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3330
Joined: November 24th, 2010, 6:30 pm

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth 6 - Temple in the Deep

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.16.0, Lord (Difficult)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6, because of the underground ToD.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Finding a good place to make a stand.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

5, undead, underground, bad terrain. :C

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-

Scenario stats:
Spoiler:
Attachments
TRoW-Return to Oldwood replay 20211105-133436.gz
cutscene scenario (S7)
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TRoW-Temple in the Deep replay 20211104-141533.gz
(33.73 KiB) Downloaded 69 times
rocinante
Posts: 9
Joined: February 12th, 2006, 10:39 am

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth 6 - Temple in the Deep

Post by rocinante »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

1.14.11, Normal

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

8, it was difficult and I lost the dwarf and a paladin. But the lich came out to kill the dwarf, and that made it easier to beat him.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

They were clear, although I lost the paladin because the scenario didn't end after I killed the lich. Wasn't considering that factor.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I liked the dwarf's dialogue.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

It's hard to move inside the cave and the deathblades have strong attacks there.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

5, it's a good challenge.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Make the ruby drop immediately after you kill the lich rather than making the leader go up to get it.
LienRag
Posts: 127
Joined: September 24th, 2018, 4:03 pm

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth 6 - Temple in the Deep

Post by LienRag »

1) 1.16.5 intermediate

(2) 6. The first wave is really harrowing if you don't understand that you have to let it come to you through the water.

(3) clear

(4) Quite good. Could be more varied.

(5) Understanding that I have to let the Undead go through the water.

(6) 7 - Water and caves are an interesting mix.

(7) Since it's not much of a challenge if one simply waits for the undead wave on the shore, maybe have a side quest (hinted somehow) that would test the time limit and reward the player with some (not overpowered) magic item ? So that if one wants to get it, they have to move quicker and confront the Undead on a less favorable terrain.
Also, a higher regular income for the Lich would let him pour more undead so it's not a question of just waiting until the first wave is exhausted. Maybe have him recruit a few loyal draugs each three turns (and hint at it somehow) ?
That way it's still possible to advance but it becomes necessary to do so (so as to not let the enemy pile up units).
Apparos_Vaklas
Posts: 37
Joined: April 24th, 2021, 11:52 am

Re: The Rise of Wesnoth 6 - Temple in the Deep

Post by Apparos_Vaklas »

(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?

Difficulty: Lord Version: 1.17.22

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

8

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Quite clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Really good 7/10. The Lich's character could have been more developed. Tentacles was a nice touch.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Lost a fugitive to the skeletons. Had to make sure the Lich was not capable of attacking any important units it could kill but it was manageable without too much fuss.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

8/10 Very good. Not my favourite kind of scenario but fighting level two skeletons at chokepoints was fun. I liked how short the scenario was, I'm not a fan of long cave scenarios.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-
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