Features for 0.8

[Eponymous-Archon]

For example, recruit and recall are both there all the time, when obviously they can't be used when your leader isn't in the keep or you lack sufficient funds. (Recall gives you the insufficient-funds warning, but not recruit.)

I don't like the idea of recruit and recall disappearing like this, as the user would have no way of knowing why they can't recruit or recall. This could end up being extremely confusing and frustrating for a new user IMO.

Units that you can't afford in the recruit menu are displayed in red. You might still want to access the recruit menu even if you don't have enough money to afford any unit, so that you can see how much money you will have to save to recruit a certain unit.

Yes, that's a good point. Hmmm, if they're in the regular menues, then perhaps they could be dropped from the CM without causing any trouble?

(In a similar way, the "next unit" CM item sticks around, even when you've gone through all the units.)

[Sithrandel]

I don't like the idea of recruit and recall disappearing like this, as the user would have no way of knowing why they can't recruit or recall. This could end up being extremely confusing and frustrating for a new user IMO.

True. There is a fine line between what to include in a contextual menu and what not to. When clicking on the same thing (e.g. a map tile) it can be confusing if the menu changes. The normal thing here would be to have the menu item either greyed out or a status message explaining why the click didn't do anything. Not sure if either of those is possible.

[Lars]

Did I say it should not be added?

Why did you said anything at all then? Maybe I was aware what 'n' on keyboard does.

This is not my project. Dave is the founder of Wesnoth and main coder.

I had an impression that 'you' has also plural meaning and you are one of coders. If I was wrong I am sorry.

All suggestions do not need and will not be added. We both have right to comment things as we see best.

I didn't except that everything will be added, did I? All I did, I brought some suggestions to possible additions to make. You just mocked me. If you really wanted to make useful discussion you would have discussed about suggestions I have made, not played smart-ass.

If you can't accept losses then you should start the scenario from scratch, I think this is the recommended way in Wesnoth.

It is NOT that I dont accept, The game DOESN'T. I try once more, If it helps understanding, which i doubt. In the game there is some characters who could not be killed. if they die, game ends.

As luck and random affects the game you usually can not play exactly the same as you did before.

If I was you I would say "I didn't say exactly the same", but I wont.

You can save with ctrl-s, for now you have to manage your saves with file manager. Managing saves in save/load dialog will most likely be implemented sooner or later.

And this brings to discussion what?

As save/load is there to allow continuing game later I don't think load is needed under menu.

What if you accidently load wrong file. Must easier just select load from menu than quit and select load again.

There is thread about Miyo, you can continue this topic in there.

No thanks, I leave you and this discussion to this. You can stay happily on your own little sandbox all by yourself.

[Dave]

As this is my first post, let me first say, I really have enjoyed the game so far.

Welcome I'm glad you like the game.

Wisdom(trait): Unit learns vicariously from units in its ZOC.

This is one of the best trait ideas I've heard for a while, I think. It may just get implemented

Of course, an Intelligent AND WIse leader/healer would be quite good to have around, but what are the chances of that happening?

And even when it does, such a unit would have to sacrifice other important abilities (resilient to keep them alive longer, quick to get places fast, and loyal to be cheap to keep) to have those two traits.

Aura of Power[Fear, whatever](abilitiy): unit has a ZOC that extends two hexes.

As turin has said, the main problem I see with this idea is that the idea of a ZOC is that units have to stop as soon as they enter one. This unit would be almost impossible to reach, since you'd always have to stop two spaces away from them.

I guess this could be implementable with a rule like "once a unit enters a 2-hex ZOC, they may move one further hex, so long as it is next to the unit emanating the ZOC". But, this might be a little complicated to make the cut, although I do like the idea in principle.

David

[Eponymous-Archon]

I don't like the idea of recruit and recall disappearing like this, as the user would have no way of knowing why they can't recruit or recall. This could end up being extremely confusing and frustrating for a new user IMO.

True. There is a fine line between what to include in a contextual menu and what not to. When clicking on the same thing (e.g. a map tile) it can be confusing if the menu changes. The normal thing here would be to have the menu item either greyed out or a status message explaining why the click didn't do anything. Not sure if either of those is possible.

Yes, a click certainly shouldn't just disappear into space, as it were. (Which reminds me that a double-click on a game in the load menu ought to produce an immediate effect in the cursor.)

OTOH, recruit and recall are not appropriate in the context of the leader not being in the keep or there being insufficient funds. Keep them in the main menu, but not in the CM when those conditions exist. It won't take long for the newbie to figure it out.

[Eponymous-Archon]

What if you accidently load wrong file. Must easier just select load from menu than quit and select load again.

I think this is a good idea. I often "resign" by quitting when it's clear I've lost. Being able to choose "load" - with a confirming dialog box - would be easier.

[Dave]

What if you accidently load wrong file. Must easier just select load from menu than quit and select load again.

I think this is a good idea. I often "resign" by quitting when it's clear I've lost. Being able to choose "load" - with a confirming dialog box - would be easier.

I would like to clarify things by saying that the reason 'load' is not an in-game option is because of difficulty to implement rather than because we want to discourage save-and-load.

David

[miyo]

I would like to clarify things by saying that the reason 'load' is not an in-game option is because of difficulty to implement rather than because we want to discourage save-and-load.

I disagree... we want to discourage save-and-load approach to playing.

- Miyo

[Lars]

I would like to clarify things by saying that the reason 'load' is not an in-game option is because of difficulty to implement rather than because we want to discourage save-and-load.

Thank you for the reply. Good to see polite answer why something is not going to be added.

It is shame that one person can easily ruin whole projects reputation. Someone really should learn how to behave, and I dont mean you David.

Maybe I give this project another change and try to find way how I can help project. It may turn out that I can't help much, but you never know who you are turning off with blunt attitude.

[miyo]

Someone really should learn how to behave, and I dont mean you David.

Take your talk to Miyo thread, it was not a joke, such thread exists and for a reason.

http://wesnoth.whitevine.net/forum/phpB ... .php?t=921

Dave just needs to ask me to resign the project and I will. Until them I will be myself in good and bad.

- Miyo

[Dave]

I would like to clarify things by saying that the reason 'load' is not an in-game option is because of difficulty to implement rather than because we want to discourage save-and-load.

Thank you for the reply. Good to see polite answer why something is not going to be added.

It is shame that one person can easily ruin whole projects reputation. Someone really should learn how to behave, and I dont mean you David.

Lars,

I must admit, I think you are over-reacting somewhat to miyo's comments. He didn't like some of your ideas; he often doesn't like many of my ideas. I often don't like his ideas.

He has stated why he doesn't think loading should be available in-game: because it would encourage the "save-and-reload" 'strategy'.

Personally, I don't use "save-and-reload" because it's an uninteresting way of playing for me. However I have no problem with people doing it if that's what works for them, although if they were to ask me, I would tell them that I don't think it's a good idea.

I do think there is a little value to having a "load game" feature in-game. It saves some time if you want to restart the scenario, or if you made a critical mis-click or so forth.

I understand that for people who like loading the most recent saved game every time they die, it is a more valuable feature. If one of these people would like to implement the feature, and send me a patch, then I will most likely include it (subject of course to technical considerations as to the quality of their patch and so forth).

I did think that your idea of making it easier to access the 'Next Unit' option is a good one, and have placed it in the context menu. If people still find it hard to access, we can consider making it a user interface button.

David

[Eponymous-Archon]

I do think there is a little value to having a "load game" feature in-game. It saves some time if you want to restart the scenario, or if you made a critical mis-click or so forth.

Dave,

I'd like it so that I can avoid a few steps when I've clearly lost the game, or have loaded the wrong one, not really to do a quick save-and-reload.

I'm not up to the programming challenge, I'm afraid.

Is just killing a game without the dialog box much harder than doing it with it? No doubt it's more complicated than I realize, but I think we're just asking for that with a return to the load screen, instead of the splash screen with the various vertically arranged buttons.

[Lars]

Ok, I have some suggestions still to 0.8 where I would like get your answer, David. There is also one more suggestion. These are not in any order.

1st: Change autosave to the start of the own turn.
2nd: add delete saved game button
3rd: stop friendly unit to takeover towns.

I would preciate much if you could answer these.

I would like to see behavior were you cannot take over friendly town and your town cannot be taken over by friend. Still you could use friendly town for healing. I think this might be hard to implement in short time. Or maybe there could be option to takeover friendly town or use it just for healing.

And least important issue at end since I want disclosure. I wasnt reacting to that he opposed my suggestion. I reacted to his rude attitude. There are difference if you say "NO." or "Stupid Idea" compared to "I disagree, because...". As you might see I apologised him if I accidently said something bluntly. I really tried to be brief but polite when making my suggestions, but I have learnt that sometimes I accidently may hurt someone, because english isn't my native language. I really cannot see any reason why someone should act arrogantly towards new posters and reply them rudely. If new users asks or suggest something "stupid" you could just ignore it instead of making arrogant comments about nothing. This kind of behavior is childish and sadly this wasn't my best day and I got provocated. I apology that

[Dave]

Is just killing a game without the dialog box much harder than doing it with it? No doubt it's more complicated than I realize, but I think we're just asking for that with a return to the load screen, instead of the splash screen with the various vertically arranged buttons.

If this was what we wanted, then that wouldn't be much of a problem. However, I believe that your description leaves out something crucial, which is the bit that makes it hard:

- we would want it so if the user cancels out of the 'load' dialog, it returns to the game they were playing, and not to the main menu.

Now what this means is that you can't just send them to the standard load screen, because in the place where the standard load screen is, it will take them back to the spash screen if they cancel out.

I believe that the feature I mention is crucial, because otherwise, if the user just accidentally hits 'load', then their current game is immediately lost.

David

[Dobob]

Wisdom(trait): Unit learns vicariously from units in its ZOC.

This is one of the best trait ideas I've heard for a while, I think. It may just get implemented

Before you do so, wouldn't it be a better ability than a trait (it seem very strong as a trait). Some units could be even made with little or no attack and this ability (such as healer, flag-carrier, scholar).
Hum,... scholar would be nice (useless unit until he gets a new level where he turns into a very strong unit).