Legend of the Invincibles

[Dugi]

I got an idea about purfying undead demon,how about the demon from purifying undead demon became rebel demon?(I mean that the demon become our ally,not our unit)

This would require adding a new side to every scenario. It would spend about a second every turn... for a really niche ability.

And little note, is it intentional, that plague-like abilities work on Black souls?

No. Making them resist it.

I decided to start actually documenting some of the bugs I encountered, just in case if they have not been fixed yet.

Fixed them.

Masterless Undead - Is it possible to control them?

Yes, it is. Look at the Greater Spells for some clues. It is also one of the very limited possibilities to get Ghouls to your side (once you get one it's easy, he'll advance to level 4 and he'll have an AMLA that gives a Ghoul plague).

Part One to Part Two Transfer - Is there some point in Part Two where the player gains access to previous inventory and recalls, or is Part Two a brand new experience?

This was mostly replied, but the point is that part 2 has slightly different rules. Many new, more powerful items drop. Units advance slightly faster.

Hey there , i just wanted to say that i love your campaign and , What do you think would happen if Efraim were to eat lethalia's soul? (just a possibility)

What would happen if Efraim ate Lethalia's soul?:

It would be quite a hard task for him. When was consuming the first souls, it was quite a struggle, however he had the upper hand of subduing the weaker souls. She'd end up inside him, but swarmed by souls controlled by Efraim. She'd have to fight numerous weaker enemies, too numerous to win, ending up as a regular inhabitant of the world. However, she is special. She might devour souls under Efraim's control, possibly taking control of Efraim from within. If she resists the peace inside him.

There is also the matter that lately, her soul was falling apart (until split completely when she used the phoenix ash). Both of them might end up inside him. The wicked one would try to take control, freeing herself of the grip of peace. The good one would try to fight her, but with little motivation as she feels betrayed by Efraim for eating her, allowing the evil one to prevail. Eventually, the Queen of Darkness would take take control of Efraim, transforming him into her image, a King of Darkness. They would find a way to puke her out, becoming an evil duo bent on conquering the world with iron and bone (the 'idyllic' life she sought in Affably Evil).

Thank you guys for explaining the polearm thing.

[dabber]

@ Sire
The opponents get a lot harder after chapter 6, and while I have been able to crush most anything with Efraim, I think the recent reduction in suck numbers will really hurt next time I restart. On defense, my Efraim throws 12+ knife attacks, each doing suck 6 or 7, and that lets him potentially kill any number of attackers without taking net damage. With that suck dropped to 3, I think his health could go down significantly.
On leveling up Efraim ...

Spoiler:

You may be disappointed that you got Efraim that many upgrades. He's going to lose them.

[Delicius169]

I was thinking if it wasnt good time, to allow suck on every kind of damage- fire, ice, arcane, lighting too.
I have started again, and I dont think, that it s much worse, the game is more difficult, and Lethalia is stronger thanks to drain, there is a cool helm What no man should know, legacy of Free, which allows you to do Hit nad run and have parry on ranged attacks (I have shadowalker, Champion)...
Little bug: After missions- Gladiatrix, almost all items are taken over to items of efraim´s, and leth´s army, but books are not. I ve lost two cool books (Lycantropy, Serendipity).

[Chewan]

Getting back to the 'pole arm' issue...

Sire » Oct 10: I was hoping that the Spearman -> Pikeman line could use them, but they use polearms instead of spears.

Hmmm... my pikeman refused to use a crafted polearm. He wanted a spear.

Sire » Oct 12: A pole weapon or polearm is a close combat weapon in which the main fighting part of the weapon is fitted to the end of a long shaft. - Wikipedia

For example: a spear, consisting of a shaft with a pointed head, and other melee weapons,
such as halberd, battle axe, baneblade, or a pike – the perfect thing for close combat...

pike attack.png (61.06 KiB) Viewed 4447 times

So, a javelin for ranged attacks is not a polearm?

In terms of LotI (...is it different from BfW default?),
I want to craft a 20 feet long charging lance for my knight, not a broomstick with a cutting edge.
To avoid malinvestment of my last few gems, should I click 'spear' or 'polearm'? - Correct answer: spear.

lancer.png (5.17 KiB) Viewed 4447 times

firefox » Oct 12: maces, hammers and morning stars could also be considered polearms, but...

What is covered by the term polearm?
Or rather, which units do use this type of weapon?

[Ashes]

What is covered by the term polearm?
Or rather, which units do use this type of weapon?

The definition is in the file "utils/items.cfg".
A "polearm" is either a halberd or a scythe.
A "spear" is one of spear, javelin, lance, spike, pike, trident.

[Chewan]

A halberd... I never would have guessed. So, a glaive (if there was one), too... Interesting.
Thanks, Ashes. I still consider a lance used in mounted warfare a pole weapon...

[ZIM]

@Sire
Thank you for explaining it to me.

I wonder,my Gryphon Rider is still able to carry Rherraent Sword after advancing from Outrider.This can be exploited.I know that this kinda stuff are already discussed,but where do he/she put the sword on???

And,I just curious how strong demon with equipped item when facing demon lord or other formidable foe.

[Dugi]

I have started again, and I dont think, that it s much worse, the game is more difficult

This could be described as a success.

A small remark: I occasionally play an action RPG game named Path of Exile. They recently weakened the ability to leech life from enemies. Suddenly my main character begun to be annoyingly weak and new, weaker ways of replenishing life are becoming more prominent. An interesting parallel.

Little bug: After missions- Gladiatrix, almost all items are taken over to items of efraim´s, and leth´s army, but books are not. I ve lost two cool books (Lycantropy, Serendipity).

Fixed. Found that potions were lost too. Fixed that one too.

I was thinking if it wasnt good time, to allow suck on every kind of damage- fire, ice, arcane, lighting too.

Let the discussion begun. I am not strictly against this idea. I wonder what others think.

#Polearm controversy
The way to choose what is polearm and what is a spear was simple for me - what was a polearm in Diablo II is a polearm in LotI and what was a spear in Diablo II is a spear in LotI. I was recovering from my Diablo II addiction when I wrote the items' code. It was refined a few times, but I did not change the basics. Usually if something sufficiently resembles a spear, it's a spear. Only if it's too different from spears it's not a spear. Because polearms don't drop (with two rare exceptions) and spears do, far more weapons are classified as spears than polearms.

What could be done is to write a list of weapons that suit each weapon class when choosing the weapon type before crafting. This was Chewan's idea and I like it.

[Whiskeyjack]

Let the discussion begun. I am not strictly against this idea. I wonder what others think.

As far as I see it there is no big problem with this. It would help units without a ranged attack a little on defense, but would still be (potentially) weaker, because the suck from weapons would not be available. On units like Elder Mage who get a lot of magic attacks it might work to make them to durable, but on the other hand, without magic-amplification-items, those units are not effective at all.
One thing to be considered though is that some items draw their value from allowing you to change your damage types and one of the main reasons to do this was suck. If suck gets removed, those items lose (besides some special cases) a lot of their value. More items with penetration/more penetration on current items could work to make the choice of which damage type a unit uses more relevant.

Dugi, I´m not up to date with the newest version (still trying to finish Inferno pre-suck-nerf, before I update), but I made the following observations: There are almost no good cloaks. There aren´t many anyway but while the set cloaks (especially the Gloomy one) are very powerful, they are also rare and the only useful ones (all the chaotic and/or resistance reducing are of the very situational kind again). I have hundreds (thousands!?) of items farmed by now and I don´t think this is a case of my bad luck any more.

Edit: I just realised that I made a mistake above as I guess suck would still only apply to weapon attacks? But it would work to make items that change your damage type to anything magical less of a liability on fighters.
To elaborate on the cloak part: My army of 24 is now very good equipped for almost every slot, except the cloaks (and I am using some of the situational ones). What I am missing are ~2 more items like Cloak of Burning Retribution: Not incredibly strong, but without drawbacks that make a big adjustement in items necessary just to make on cloak viable. This applies even more to part I, where the good cloaks like Gloomy/Pale Rider don´t drop at all and you have almost no cloaks at all.

On a side note: I feel like there is an abundance of items with fire resistance for (almost) every slot, but finding useful items that provide arcance/cold resistance is very hard/impossible for some slots and thus balancing those resistances is harder. (This comes from an outdated patch and might be dependant on the composition of my army (units/legacies) thus I´d be happy about other opinions).
I feel like the draw-backs of the Iced set (which would be a way to get some more cold resistance in other item slots (boots!)) are too big to make it viable in any way (especially the -50% fire resistance onthe breast plate are a little over the top IMO).

Edit 2: Just cracked 10k exp for the first time on a unit #thingsLotIdoes

[Ashes]

I was thinking if it wasnt good time, to allow suck on every kind of damage- fire, ice, arcane, lighting too.

Let the discussion begun. I am not strictly against this idea. I wonder what others think.
Let the discussion begun. I am not strictly against this idea. I wonder what others think.

I just did the first part of LotI with the reduced suck on HARD difficulty, and it is not needed to have suck on magical damage. But I pushed every scenario until the last turn, to gain as much xp as possible, and to get as much items as possible.
It is interesting to have to make the choice between suck and magical damage.

To elaborate on the cloak part: My army of 24 is now very good equipped for almost every slot, except the cloaks (and I am using some of the situational ones). What I am missing are ~2 more items like Cloak of Burning Retribution: Not incredibly strong, but without drawbacks that make a big adjustement in items necessary just to make on cloak viable. This applies even more to part I, where the good cloaks like Gloomy/Pale Rider don´t drop at all and you have almost no cloaks at all.

I think that there are many good cloaks, even in part I.
The woodland cloak is useful in the beginning, when there are many forests, and the robes of filth useful in Akula's dungeon (because of the chaotic alignment).
The cloak of burning retribution, the deadborn (suck 1) are useful all the time.
Unseen writings is very good for spell casters.
Less useful, IMHO, the cloak of the assassin leader (if you can use it, then it means that the enemy unit is surrounded and will die anyway ; I use this cloak mainly to level weak units)

On a side note: I feel like there is an abundance of items with fire resistance for (almost) every slot, but finding useful items that provide arcance/cold resistance is very hard/impossible for some slots and thus balancing those resistances is harder. (This comes from an outdated patch and might be dependant on the composition of my army (units/legacies) thus I´d be happy about other opinions).
I feel like the draw-backs of the Iced set (which would be a way to get some more cold resistance in other item slots (boots!)) are too big to make it viable in any way (especially the -50% fire resistance onthe breast plate are a little over the top IMO).

Cold resistance is quite easy to find, especially in part I, with the Ice Armour.
Arcane resistance and Impact resistance are the most difficult to have, IMHO.

[ZIM]

I agree that is hard to find item that provide cold and impact resistance,maybe the next update can include new item that provide resistance to cold and impact.
And,I have a question.Why the helmet "no man shouldn't know" is named like that?

For Dugi,
Can I try to translate this campaign to Indonesian languange.If so,can you tell me how it done?I have a friend that plays BfW too.I want show him this awesome campaign .

[firefox]

in my first play, i had 2 robes that give poison and plague (or was it infect?).
i gave them to a ranger and an assassin and teamed them with my necromancer.
this team was super-effective against generic low-level orc armies, because they almost always caused a zombie apocalypse.

the woodland cloak is best used on loyalist units. it makes the spearman and bowman just as agile as the elven units, but they still have their natural arcane resistance.
once i gave it to an assassin to get him to 80% evasion.
(together with sparkling ring or something it went up to 85%.)

burning retribution was always good, i don't remember the unseen writings, but all the un-something pieces i had were good.

only the cloak of the assassin leader is really hard to use.
the -20% resistance penalty was very dangerous for every unit. so i only gave it to ghosts, but even so it made them very fragile.
maybe some evasion bonus would help to make up for the lack of defense.
(when equipped, every unit gets the low resistance of thieves and fencers, but thieves and fencers at least have high evasion.)

[Whiskeyjack]

Alright, part I is quite far off for me, after your comments I agree that the useless cloaks aren´t so useless there. In Inferno though...
Besides the point that you need higher stats (so every malus is potentially very dangerous) there isn´t a single forest tile and the weather is usually lightened liminalness -> very bad for chaotic -> a lot of specialization through crafted items and abstinence from prophets and helmets of paladins is necessary to make a chaos strategy (and not just a few units) viable. Not really worth the effort IMO.

"cloak of the assassin leader" Try to use this on dwarves. I run this + ?steps to perdition? (the boots that give -40%) on dwarvish guards and they are still very tanky even on offense (not that much damage though). I also run the boots on pretty much every dwarf I have, as even their other units can take one malus item and it´s one of the few ways to get a little penetration on them.

[Delicius169]

Just a little note: You can get cold resistances with Gloombringer- crafted weapon +40%cold, -10fire%.

[Dugi]

To clarify, suck would affect only weapon attacks, not spells. Suck is implemented as an invisible weapon special that works with physical kinds of damage. It is a weapon property, like increased damage.

Maybe I could make the set cloaks weaker to make all cloaks more similar in power.

Btw, in the draft for the next version, there is a cloak like this, I wonder what do you say about it:
Touch of God
-20% to physical resistances
New ability: Despair (40)
1 less movement points
'I... I have been touched by god.'
'Touched by our allmightly lord and saviour?'
'No, by lord Cthulhu.'

I might add some items with cold resistance. Added two items with cold resistance, named The Warmth and Apricity. Impact resistance is intentionally rare because maces were used mainly to penetrate armour. For now, I have reduced the fire resistance penalty of Heart of Ice.

The helmet What no man should know is named so because it's quite unsuitable for any unit that isn't undead. The self-caused cold damage is too high for its regeneration to mitigate if the unit does not have undead's resistances.

For Dugi,
Can I try to translate this campaign to Indonesian languange.If so,can you tell me how it done?I have a friend that plays BfW too.I want show him this awesome campaign .

I don't know exactly how it's done, unfortunately. There is a script for making translation .po files (wmlgettext.py in wesnoth's folders), then there are various programs for assisting the translation. They should be available by googling (for example https://poedit.net/download). These programs should be able to make the working translation .mo file from it that wesnoth can read and use. If you can do this, then it's great, but I think that the description of the process is too simplified and they are pitfalls I have not mentioned.
I have sent a PM to the guy who made and is still refining the German translation if he can make some short guide, I hope that we shall put something together.