Idea for Far East Faction

[Seiryu]

And did you fixed the problem that the units were attacking with their bakc or not? (vs.1) If you need the images when they're attacking please tell it too...

I think I know why I didn't see that before... because I've set "skip combat" in my preference...

Any way!!! What can I do for you? if you need the attacks of some units tell me... And if you need the images of some units too...

[appleide]

if it isnt too hard.... attack frames for the units? maybe 2 frames of attack for each unit...

Also need 2 frames of defend...

For the "legendary samurai unit"? (Thats definitely going in it)


Otherwise, you could draw new units for the other factions, or just level 4s or more level 3 samurais/ninjas...

You know what? draw it, and I'll use it. Whatever you think looks good. But otherwise, animations will really help.

btw I've finished the "9 unit faction".. be good if you could draw at least 2 more horse samurais (thats the most urgent).

[Temuchin Khan]

I like Tian Chi... Don't know if it fits or not... In my language (Cantonese), it means "Gifted by God".

Well, I must admit that I don't actually know Chinese. I've picked up a few scattered words and phrases, but that's it.

Given that Kafka's original idea was to stress martial-arts-practicing monks, however, Tian Chi might be a good name for the faction he originally proposed.

I have no problem with seperate Chinese and Japanese factions (though Kafka seems to hate the idea), but would they need to be a distinct era? Could they not be included in the Imperial era, for example?

Also, shouldn't China's archer wield a one-shot crossbow at level one, then at level two gain a rapid-fire crossbow?

How a Chinese-only faction might look:

Code: Select all

Conscript Crossbowman -> Crossbowman -> {appropriate Chinese word}
                       -> Repeater Crossbow -> {appropriate Chinese word}
                       -> Fire Arrow -> {appropriate Chinese term}

Conscript Spearman -> Spearman -> {appropriate Chinese word}
                    -> Fire Lance -> {appropriate Chinese word}

Imperial Horseman -> Elite Horseman -> {appropriate Chinese word}

We could also use Kafka's Chinese warrior-monks in this faction....

For Samurai units, Kafka seems to have it pretty well planned out, especially since he has both foot and mounted samurai units. We'd need a level one ninja to round out the Japanese-only faction, as well as peasant infantry with naginatas.

Rustic Spearman -> Naginata Adept -> Naginata Elite

Oh, and shouldn't the Archer and Musketeer lines be distinct? Most Samurai would never have been caught dead with fire arms, after all.

Samurai Bowman -> Samurai Archer -> {appropriate Japanese word}

Rustic Musketeer -> Rustic Rocketeer

And, a tengu line:

Tengu -> Tengu Elite -> Tengu Elder

And, of course, Japan had its own warrior-monks.

[appleide]

I like yours and Kafka's ideas.... (but we first need to look at the task on hand, and as soon as we have agreed on something, i'll finish it in a couple of days provided the graphics resources we have are sufficient)

But if we were to limit to faction to 4 units MAX (because we don't have enough graphics output), who would they be. There also need to be branches inside these trees.

most appropriate would be:
sometype of horseman scout ->lvl2 ->lvl3
total:3 images

mainhandtohandsamurais->lvl2-> lvl3
ditto->lvl2->lvl3
total: 5 images

sometype of musketeer->lvl2->lvl3
total 3

sometype of samurai archer->lvl2->lvl3
total 3

clawdancer/ninjas ->lvl2-> lvl3
total 3

And we need to take one of them away, which would it be? This question may easily solve the problem. Did they have archers in the late-sengoku period?

right now, if we take of the archer, we need one more musketeer image(lvl1), 2 more samurai horseman image(lvl 2+3), 2 more samurai images clad in armour, preferably 3(lvl 2+3).


And then when that is done, theres the animations... *sighs*

Temuchin, do you have a copy of the current version of this faction in your wesnoth campaigns folder? (so you can play test it)


+++++++
And now for something completely different: (not really)

Kafka's warrior monk faction! (still...I have bad feelings about this.)

Okay, I think we have atleast 5 monk images at our disposal, we could use those.

we have a spearman, we can use that.

We need two more spearmans

three more scout-images, although 2 would suffice, if they are on foot and made like foot scouts, rather like the foot pad in the outlaws.


+++++

How could I forget the crossbows!

Anyways, temuchin, for your chinese faction, there needs to be level threes...

We need some crossbowman images (right now, seems like at least 5-6)

need some more spearmans (seems like 3 more right now)

and three more horseman images

and we'll add in the monks.

++++++++
Seiryu, would you be able to be getting one of your militia units (the one with the axe, eg, or any you think would look good), and swap their weapon for a spear?

And then, use another militia image, and change the weapon to a crossbow?

Of course do this after making that japanese horseman image (most urgent!!!)

make sure you read this whole thing

[Temuchin Khan]

But if we were to limit to faction to 4 units MAX (because we don't have enough graphics output), who would they be. There also need to be branches inside these trees.

most appropriate would be:
sometype of horseman scout ->lvl2 ->lvl3
total:3 images

mainhandtohandsamurais->lvl2-> lvl3
ditto->lvl2->lvl3
total: 5 images

sometype of musketeer->lvl2->lvl3
total 3

sometype of samurai archer->lvl2->lvl3
total 3

clawdancer/ninjas ->lvl2-> lvl3
total 3

And we need to take one of them away, which would it be? This question may easily solve the problem. Did they have archers in the late-sengoku period?

right now, if we take of the archer, we need one more musketeer image(lvl1), 2 more samurai horseman image(lvl 2+3), 2 more samurai images clad in armour, preferably 3(lvl 2+3).

Combine the samurai archer and the horseman scout into a mounted samurai with sword and bow. Kind of like the Elvish Scout, but more effective and more expensive. The infantry samurai can also be retained, but samurai were primarily mounted troops, sort of the Japanese equivalent of European knights.

Temuchin, do you have a copy of the current version of this faction in your wesnoth campaigns folder? (so you can play test it)

No, not yet. And this weekend I, as a first time teacher, need to worry about grading my first batch of mid-terms!

Okay, I think we have atleast 5 monk images at our disposal, we could use those.

we have a spearman, we can use that.

We need two more spearmans

three more scout-images, although 2 would suffice, if they are on foot and made like foot scouts, rather like the foot pad in the outlaws.

We need some crossbowman images (right now, seems like at least 5-6)

need some more spearmans (seems like 3 more right now)

and three more horseman images

and we'll add in the monks.

Hey, if the Japanese are ready first, by all means get them ready first.

Besides, I see my suggested Chinese faction as no more than that: a suggestion. Hopefully a good one, but do with it as you please.

EDIT: I left the level 3 Chinese units blank because I was hoping that someone with a knowledge of Chinese could supply more authentic names than I ever could.

[Seiryu]

Seiryu, would you be able to be getting one of your militia units (the one with the axe, eg, or any you think would look good), and swap their weapon for a spear?

And then, use another militia image, and change the weapon to a crossbow?

Of course do this after making that japanese horseman image (most urgent!!!)

make sure you read this whole thing

Ok lets go one by one OK? Lets make it but I don't have so much time to do it fast... But when I do it I do it as fast as I can...

[appleide]

Combine the samurai archer and the horseman scout into a mounted samurai with sword and bow. Kind of like the Elvish Scout, but more effective and more expensive. The infantry samurai can also be retained, but samurai were primarily mounted troops, sort of the Japanese equivalent of European knights.

hmm, that changes the plan alot...

Samurai footsoldier->lvl2->lvl3
musketeer->lvl2->lvl3

mounted samurai->lvl 2->lvl3
mounted samurai ->lvl2(branch1)->lvl3(branch1)

ninjas->lvl2->lvl3

It would have to be changed to this. Branch one would be more specialised in bow, while the original tree of cavalry would lose their bow attack.

So we only need one musketeer image, and 4 more samurai mounted images:?

No, not yet. And this weekend I, as a first time teacher, need to worry about grading my first batch of mid-terms!

So do you want it?

Hey, if the Japanese are ready first, by all means get them ready first.

Besides, I see my suggested Chinese faction as no more than that: a suggestion. Hopefully a good one, but do with it as you please.

I don't know my chinese history too well... So i think you would do much better.

[Temuchin Khan]

No, not yet. And this weekend I, as a first time teacher, need to worry about grading my first batch of mid-terms!

So do you want it?

Sure, but first let me make some headway on the exams.

Hey, if the Japanese are ready first, by all means get them ready first.

Besides, I see my suggested Chinese faction as no more than that: a suggestion. Hopefully a good one, but do with it as you please.

I don't know my chinese history too well... So i think you would do much better.[/quote]

Well, here again is the suggested all-Chinese faction. I added a line of "mortarmen" -- they can be specialists in gunpowder weapons.

But what would these unit names be in Chinese?

Code: Select all

Conscript Crossbowman -> Imperial Crossbowman -> Elite Imperial Crossbowman
                      -> Repeater Crossbowman -> Elite Repeater Crossbowman
                      -> Fire Arrow -> Elite Fire Arrow

Conscript Spearman -> Imperial Spearman -> Elite Imperial Spearman
                      -> Fire Lance -> Elite Fire Lance

Imperial Horseman -> Imperial Lancer -> Elite Imperial Lancer

Mortarman -> Imperial Mortarman -> Elite Imperial Mortarman

Also, I recall now that Japan's warrior monks, and sometimes China's, acted quite independently of the government. Maybe the warrior monks, rather than the Koreans, should be the third Far Eastern faction!

[Cuyo Quiz]

Or be in both, like the Mages in the Elves/Humans case in Wesnoth.

Of course, then the subject of having some of them branch into weapon-wielding monks becomes more restricted. The relations between the Far East believings is strong, so i think having them in both could also work.

[Temuchin Khan]

Or be in both, like the Mages in the Elves/Humans case in Wesnoth.

Of course, then the subject of having some of them branch into weapon-wielding monks becomes more restricted. The relations between the Far East believings is strong, so i think having them in both could also work.

True enough. After all, Buddhism is practiced in both China and Japan.

@appeide: Hey, I've been making great progress on the mid-terms! Where can I download these guys?

[appleide]

True enough; What kind of monks?

Monk->Warrior Monk -> Taichi Master
Monk->Healing Monk -> Curing monk?

And then they can hire militias that are weak, but are peasants believing in them?

(all names are place holders)

Here's the 9 japanese units...
Has ninjas, musketeers, and samurais on-foot.
I've made all the units recruitable, so you dont have to play an extremely long game to check out the bugs.

EDIT: deleted this version, download the newer one.

[Temuchin Khan]

My Legendary Samurai, using a successful No Daichi, just finished off a full-health Orcish Warrior in one hit! Cool!

I found two bugs, however:

1) The Legendary Samurai is listed as a level 1 unit (!?), not a level 3.

2) The Samurai Hero's No Daichi attack is 1-1 in practice, though it is listed elsewhere as 30-1.

Finally, the mounted samurai is badly needed. On some maps, elves own the men of Nihon.

Aside from that, these guys are real fun to play with!

[appleide]

My Legendary Samurai, using a successful No Daichi, just finished off a full-health Orcish Warrior in one hit! Cool!

I found two bugs, however:

1) The Legendary Samurai is listed as a level 1 unit (!?), not a level 3.

2) The Samurai Hero's No Daichi attack is 1-1 in practice, though it is listed elsewhere as 30-1.

Finally, the mounted samurai is badly needed. On some maps, elves own the men of Nihon.

Aside from that, these guys are real fun to play with!

Hmm thanks!
Let me just add a mounted samurai, too baad it cant level up though, because theres no level2 or level 3 images for it.

I just figured out undead owns them too.


What should be the cavalry called?
Mounted Samurai?
Samurai Knight?

[appleide]

Would it be in-theme, if I give the mounted guy an attack called"trample", where he just runs over his enemies?

Ok... new version. Fixed the bugs, and added a mounted samurai that cant level up. (and is costly too).

Tell me if the unit is underpower powered or over please...

I watched the computer play several games.... They seem weak as is, but when I reduce their cost by one and add some hit points (like4) and they seem to be overpowered...

EDIT: there's a newer version next page. And this time, no recruiting level 3s. Also see which mounted samurai is unbalanced. (it may be both)

[Logan]

I agree, they seem a bit weak, but they hold their own when in a good position. I only watched one game, and they were stuck in defense right off the bat. Stats or cash.