Free Goblins (Dev Stage: Statting, Coding-then Animating)

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » June 16th, 2006, 3:28 pm

What is it then, a recessive trait? It can't possibly be a recessive trait, because then all Orcs would have to be homozygous for it (and thus produce no goblins at all as offspring.)

Post by **turin** » June 16th, 2006, 3:36 pm

Elvish Pillager wrote:What is it then, a recessive trait? It can't possibly be a recessive trait, because then all Orcs would have to be homozygous for it (and thus produce no goblins at all as offspring.)

Obviously the genetics of Wesnoth do not work with recessive and dominant traits.

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » June 16th, 2006, 3:41 pm

Well, if that's to be the case, then Thrawn's statement makes no sense in the first place.

Ranger M · Post by **Ranger M** » June 16th, 2006, 4:01 pm

turin wrote:
Elvish Pillager wrote:Not if orcness an X-linked dominant trait.
We know orcness is not a dominant trait because the majority of the offspring are goblins.

It Could be done in the same way the gender choice for humans is done. This is techno babble for how it could happen, and adds a new unit, which would never normally occur in the northerners

Femal X Y
Male X X

(YY never occurs because the female can pass on X or Y, but the male can only pass on X, and one comes from each, so the gender is entirely decided by which of the females' eggs is fertilised)

instead:

orc X X
goblin X Y
Little runt (normally dies/is eaten, is feral if brought up) Y Y

this would be possible, because the DNA passed on by the father would be either an X or a Y, and the female would have X or Y, then there would be a 25% chance of orc, 50% chance of goblin and 25% chance of little runt, which can mean 2 orcs, 4 goblins, and 2 runts (that die normally, and could be a new feral unit in this faction) of course it's not normally that, because which DNA gets used (which sperm fetilises the egg) is entirely random.

ps, the X and Y in the orc/goblin choice is completely different from the X and Y in gender choice, I just used X and Y for both.

scott · Post by **scott** » June 16th, 2006, 4:07 pm

How about something diabolical? Free goblins euthanize orcish babies born to goblins. Makes them not so one-sided.

catwhowalksbyhimself · June 16th, 2006, 6:08 pm

Another possibility is that goblinoids growth is directly related the amount of food they consume in early years. The orcs force-feed the largest children, who grow into orcs. The free goblins see no need for this, so none of their children become orcs.

Post by **Thrawn** » June 16th, 2006, 6:28 pm

catwhowalksbyhimself wrote:Another possibility is that goblinoids growth is directly related the amount of food they consume in early years. The orcs force-feed the largest children, who grow into orcs. The free goblins see no need for this, so none of their children become orcs.

I still like my "orcish" trait idea the best, but I'm baised. obviously

Ranger M · Post by **Ranger M** » June 16th, 2006, 6:53 pm

Thrawn wrote:I still like my "orcish" trait idea the best, but I'm baised. obviously

So do I, mostly because it adds some variety, and surprise (I was very happy when I first found the dexterous elvish trait, but was dissapointed to find no others). That and it gives some backstory, adding to a players immersion in the story (especially if it is detailed in the trait description).

That, and I simply like the idea of a racial trait, they make the races more interesting. (I'm thinking of adding a Arendian one, which should have quite nice effects, and add to backstory/gameplay, and make a certain part of the description for the Hunters make more sense)

halleck · Post by **halleck** » June 16th, 2006, 8:17 pm

I understand what the other guys are saying about not being possible and stuff like that but i still like the idea of smart goblins. It wouldnt be that bad if the rules were... "bent" once would it?

Post by **turin** » June 16th, 2006, 8:18 pm

halleck wrote:I understand what the other guys are saying about not being possible and stuff like that but i still like the idea of smart goblins. It wouldnt be that bad if the rules were... "bent" once would it?

YES!!! IT WOULD BE BAD!!!

I mean, why do people even ask?

halleck · Post by **halleck** » June 16th, 2006, 8:20 pm

turin wrote:
halleck wrote:I understand what the other guys are saying about not being possible and stuff like that but i still like the idea of smart goblins. It wouldnt be that bad if the rules were... "bent" once would it?
YES!!! IT WOULD BE BAD!!!

I mean, why do people even ask?

Simmer down, simmer down...

Post by **irrevenant** » June 16th, 2006, 8:38 pm

turin wrote:Interesting idea.
But I fail to see how an independent colony of Goblins could survive, since according to the backstory we've come up with Goblins and Orcs are actually the same race - in each goblinoid litter, there are 1-2 orcs and 3-5 goblins. The orcs are only big and strong because they were the strongest of the litter, and so were chosen to be orcs, and the goblins are only small because their growth was stunted.

The storyline revolves around the first 1-25 years of the colony's existence. During this time, the Free Goblins' steadily-increasing numbers are solely made up by runaways from existing Orc tribes (yet another reason that the orcs hate them; they encourage the tribe's cannon-fodder to flee).

What they will do longer term regarding population, I don't know; it's an interesting challenge that might make a good basis for a future campaign/era.

EDIT1: ie. What Alks said, except for the breeding bit, which doesn't need to be addressed within the scope of the faction's timeline anyway.

BTW, I am generally against having democracy in fantasy games. But I'll try not to let that prejudice me against these guys.

Democracy developed as an alternate system to everyone being dominated by the strong; it's a natural fit for Goblins.

Prometheus · Post by **Prometheus** » June 16th, 2006, 10:44 pm

A slight genetic size advantage combined with superior nutrition during adolescence and a physical training regime of weightlifting and body building would be enough to make orcs far larger and stronger than goblins, and seem almost a separate species.

There is no need for a discussion about heredity at all. Anyway this "recessive" and "dominant" idea is a gross simplification except in a few special cases.

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » June 16th, 2006, 11:16 pm

I quite like Darth Fool's explanation, especially since it gives an excuse to make these guys stronger in general than, say, the Goblin Spearman.

Cuyo Quiz · Post by **Cuyo Quiz** » June 17th, 2006, 1:13 am

Thrawn wrote:they are all brought up as them being "goblins," but if someone wanted to do it, they could have an "orcish" trait for this race, and it gives +2 melee, +5%HP, and +10%XP needed to upgrade...

This is nice. Should be downgraded a little maybe.

Goblins Inc. are nice too, and completely possible. I mean, goblin mother, goblin father, non-traumatized offspring, right?. Fun times.

Drop genetics, it may be many things, perhaps even tied to the fact that they born in litters and some just don't have the room to grow bigger before being born. Praises be to Darth Fool.