Hammer of Thursagan masked Dwarves

[Refumee]

Hello all,

I created some WIP sprites for the Hammer of Thursagan masked dwarves.

First of all, I gave them all the current dwarvish sprites. This is noticeable with the fighter and thunderer line.
Secondly I gave them the colors of the current dwarvish colormap.
Thirdly I tried something new.

On the left side, you can see the "new" sprites.
Here on the fighter line I tried a new masked design. It is colorwise closer to the portaits the masked dwarves use.
Anyway I want you to take a close look at their legs, here you can see the old and current dwarve design at work.

maskeddwarf2.webp (133.53 KiB) Viewed 1573 times

On the second image you can see the biggest difference in the guard line. They are wearing a mask now.
If you want to see a difference, check out the guns.
People on discord think this is appropiate cause those are wearing armour.
Karrag is a bit lighter, cause I gave him the Runesmith coloring, the hammer still needs a color change.

The third image is just a try to give the left over dwarf units a masked variant.
Here got the rune smith a bit o f work, they are wearing karrags helmet.
In my view thats the helmets karrags runesmith would wear.

@doofus-01, are you interested in those dwarf designs for the mainline campaign?
If yes, I can finish of the animations and start a PR.
If there is anything I need to fix, I can do it before I start my PR.

[doofus-01]

Hello Refumee,

I have to admit up front that I haven't played Hammer of Thursagan, so I'd need to do some "research" to confidently judge the design. From the wiki story at https://wiki.wesnoth.org/TheHammerOfThursagan_story, it seems like they are bandit dwarves, but still regular dwarves, so a cloth mask makes sense. But if they are more cult-like or at least Karrag has some rituals holding his forces together, then the wooden masks make more sense. There should be some consistent theme, even if the masks aren't all identical.

Are these bandit dwarves or cult dwarves? Or should there be both? Let's get the base frame figured out before going on to animations, so we avoid the tedium & frustration of propagating changes across animation frames. Whether we do that here or in a PR is your call, whatever is easier.

Thanks for working on it.

[Refumee]

I'll quote a friend from Discord Roge Tebnelok.
I for myself I need to reread the current scenario files and also maybe the older files.

Hello Refumee,

I have to admit up front that I haven't played Hammer of Thursagan, so I'd need to do some "research" to confidently judge the design. From the wiki story at https://wiki.wesnoth.org/TheHammerOfThursagan_story, it seems like they are bandit dwarves, but still regular dwarves, so a cloth mask makes sense. But if they are more cult-like or at least Karrag has some rituals holding his forces together, then the wooden masks make more sense. There should be some consistent theme, even if the masks aren't all identical.

Are these bandit dwarves or cult dwarves? Or should there be both? Let's get the base frame figured out before going on to animations, so we avoid the tedium & frustration of propagating changes across animation frames. Whether we do that here or in a PR is your call, whatever is easier.

Thanks for working on it.

The orange masks aren't wooden, they are bronze, as they are for smithing and wielders say it's the symbol of master over the forge. They are faction of Karrag's close followers who carry out his will and raid non-dwarves to enslave them. Closer to a cult, because other Kal Karthan dwarves were mostly unaware, but cultin sense of secrecy, not faith/religion. Masks are needed to conceal their identities in not yet converted dwarven society and pay homage to their master. Some of them might be already undead, we don't know for sure. But living ones follow Karrag willingly, he doesn't have the mind control he would exercise on others had he restored the Hammer and completed his ritual.

[Refumee]

Hello Refumee,

I have to admit up front that I haven't played Hammer of Thursagan, so I'd need to do some "research" to confidently judge the design. From the wiki story at https://wiki.wesnoth.org/TheHammerOfThursagan_story, it seems like they are bandit dwarves, but still regular dwarves, so a cloth mask makes sense. But if they are more cult-like or at least Karrag has some rituals holding his forces together, then the wooden masks make more sense. There should be some consistent theme, even if the masks aren't all identical.

Are these bandit dwarves or cult dwarves? Or should there be both? Let's get the base frame figured out before going on to animations, so we avoid the tedium & frustration of propagating changes across animation frames. Whether we do that here or in a PR is your call, whatever is easier.

Thanks for working on it.

So I went trough different version of THoT and I only found this quotes from 1.18 in Scenario 3:
"Kal Kartha is the stronghold of numerous, ancient forges. We are at home in deep firepits, as smiths and craftsmen. The mask is a sign of our mastery of the forge."
"And more practically, it shields the face from flying sparks and molten steel. Even the forgemasters of Knalga don the mask, though perhaps not as continuously as our friend Movrur does. But we have no time to discuss this further right now; I see trouble brewing down the road!"

So the mask protects the face from flying sparks and molten steel. So I don't think it is made out of wood.
The level 1 cloth masks arent the same masks I believe they are talking here.

Funnily enough in older versions of Wesnoth, nobody isnt really talking about the masks, except that the dwarves are wearing some.
But I found another detail in older version:

As you can see, in the older portraits the mask is yellowish, like the old unit sprites and it doesn't look like a wooden mask.
The newer portrait has a different look for the mask.

[doofus-01]

So I went trough different version of THoT and I only found this quotes from 1.18 in Scenario 3:
"Kal Kartha is the stronghold of numerous, ancient forges. We are at home in deep firepits, as smiths and craftsmen. The mask is a sign of our mastery of the forge."
"And more practically, it shields the face from flying sparks and molten steel. Even the forgemasters of Knalga don the mask, though perhaps not as continuously as our friend Movrur does. But we have no time to discuss this further right now; I see trouble brewing down the road!"

So the mask protects the face from flying sparks and molten steel. So I don't think it is made out of wood.
The level 1 cloth masks arent the same masks I believe they are talking here.

Right above that quote is a note saying they are lying. Seems like there is a lot of ambiguity here, maybe it's something that can be developed a bit more. I'm currently thinking the hard masks, whether leather, wood, brass, or steel, make more sense than the TC bandit cloth masks. But without playing the campaign, it's hard to be sure.

Looking through the files, I'm not sure all the dwarf units need a masked variation. Maybe we should ask @Dalas120 what the plans are for this campaign.

[Dalas120]

At the moment, I don't have any plans for masked units besides those already available in core. But, I wouldn't say no to some masked Gryphon Riders / Runesmiths / Scouts (probably in that order of priority), and it's always good to update the existing masked dwarves to better match their unmasked variants.

As for the story and using cloth vs metal masks... IIRC the whole masks thing started when Karrag, the Kal Karthan leader, was transformed into a Lich. To hide his secret, he kept his face covered with his helm and chainmail.

karrag.webp (190.96 KiB) Viewed 1332 times

Mask-wearing is taboo in dwarvish society (or at least it was before the last campaign rewrite, and might be again in the future), but over time Karrag's influence spread throughout his subjects. Karrag's inner circle also donned masks, partially in deference to Karrag but also to hide their faces when they hunted and captured humans throughout the surrounding countryside for use in Karrag's foul rituals. ...at least that's my understanding - things aren't spelled out so clearly in the campaign itself.

Personally, I don't have an issue using both cloth and metal masks for the dwarves. I also prefer the Refumee's new silver masks over the old orange ones.

[Refumee]

At the moment, I don't have any plans for masked units besides those already available in core. But, I wouldn't say no to some masked Gryphon Riders / Runesmiths / Scouts (probably in that order of priority), and it's always good to update the existing masked dwarves to better match their unmasked variants.

As for the story and using cloth vs metal masks... IIRC the whole masks thing started when Karrag, the Kal Karthan leader, was transformed into a Lich. To hide his secret, he kept his face covered with his helm and chainmail.

karrag.webp

Mask-wearing is taboo in dwarvish society (or at least it was before the last campaign rewrite, and might be again in the future), but over time Karrag's influence spread throughout his subjects. Karrag's inner circle also donned masks, partially in deference to Karrag but also to hide their faces when they hunted and captured humans throughout the surrounding countryside for use in Karrag's foul rituals. ...at least that's my understanding - things aren't spelled out so clearly in the campaign itself.

Personally, I don't have an issue using both cloth and metal masks for the dwarves. I also prefer the Refumee's new silver masks over the old orange ones.

What about the metal mask guard line and the different helm for the runesmith to be more aligned to Karrag? Or should all stay like the original and the new just a regular cloth mask?

[Refumee]

@Dalas120
I saw that the image of karrag is wearing a chainmale as beard, so I tried this:

karrag_chainbeard.png (4.75 KiB) Viewed 1273 times

karrag_chainbeard_small.png (2.59 KiB) Viewed 1273 times

or with just a metal look

karrag_metalbeard.png (4.78 KiB) Viewed 1273 times

karrag_metalbeard_small.png (2.62 KiB) Viewed 1273 times

and here a new hammer coloring

karrag_hammer.png (4.66 KiB) Viewed 1273 times

karrag_hammer_small.png (2.54 KiB) Viewed 1273 times

P.S. he is already wearing the new armour coloring to look like a 1.18 dwarf.

[Dalas120]

What about the metal mask guard line and the different helm for the runesmith to be more aligned to Karrag? Or should all stay like the original and the new just a regular cloth mask?

TBH I don't feel too strongly about it. I'll probably be happy with whichever appearance you and doofus think looks best. (long wait for a very boring answer, sorry!)

Chainmail beard Karrag looks nice! I think all your options look good.