Random is out of control, making game unplayable

[nj666]

I'm so tired of losing critical fights despite 65%, 75% or 90% odds of killing the enemy. Any consistent strategy becomes impossible, every time everything can go wrong and whole game turns around. ESPECIALLY bad on tiny maps when first confrontations happen when both players only have a bunch of units, and then by choice of fortune 4 vs 4 fight turns into 4 v 3 which quickly progresses to 4 v 2, with other player retreating with remaining units and attacker takes all villages. First fight often decides the whole game. And yet the most popular map (Isar) is so tiny it's often finished by turn 5, with completely random outcome at first fight setting the direction of everything (having 1 less unit is HUGE deal in tiny map like this, that early).
What's the point of having that much randomness? Imagine if chess had random factor, it would be much worse game and nobody would take it seriously.
Even removing random completely from wesnoth would make it better game than it is now, but ideally just reduce random's influence by 10 and should be fine.
Simplest solution - in fights the attacker always does first successful attack, then defender, then attacker etc. Everything predictable and can be planned. Or just add 2-4% chance to miss but it can still result in massively unfair and unsatisfying game where superior strategy failed against weaker one by choice of fortune.

[Ravana]

There are addons that make game less random.

[dwarftough]

Random indeed is sharper on a smaller scale and on a smaller scale. I wouldn't agree Isar is completely random, sure it's visible but you need skill. Wesnoth with smaller maps is more like a card game like bridge where your hand is random but you have to deal with what you were dealt.

I have made some estimates about the possible luck ranges and I hope to share them soon, so everyone will be free to draw their conclusions about how acceptable this amount of variance is.

Also, I've been experimenting recently with Biased RNG in MP (it's been available in SP since 1.16 but wasn't in MP before my mod). It makes a bit different game with less variance but still resembles good old Wesnoth pretty a lot.

P.S. As a fun fact

Imagine if chess had random factor

ancient forms of chess had dices, also there are enthusiasts of chess with dices even now.

[nj666]

I wouldn't agree Isar is completely random, sure it's visible but you need skill.

I've had my unit failing to kill the other one with 75% odds, then next unit failed to kill same unit with 68% odds. What skill? That luck allowed him to kill 2 of my units next turn, that forced me to retreat so he took most of my villages and effectively won the game. 2 unlucky fights (despite odds being strongly in my favor) decided the whole outcome of game. Zero chance of 'comeback' on small maps and/or early game, either surrendering or slow death.
Another example - he has some damaged unit, 5 XP away from level up. You attack it with 5 units, each displays like 20-40% odds of killing him, but he survives everything and levels up as he gets remaining XP from them. These happen way too often than it should, ruining any attempt to do a strategy.
This only gets balanced once both players get massive amounts of units, meaning 20+, all nearby. Or maybe if you play 1000 games vs same opponent then more skilled player will slowly get ahead. 1 or 5 games? Pure luck.

[Soliton]

If you want to be successful you will need to read 75% as failing 1 out of 4 times and not as "pretty much guaranteed" like you seem to. Forcing a game decision (and as it sounds only the decision you will lose not that you will win if you succeed) on two somewhat favourable fights will certainly cause you to lose very often.

There should be no reason to engage in a fair fight of 4vs4 units or some such on a balanced multiplayer map. If that is your "strategy" then you are bound to fail a lot. The way to win is usually to create an imbalance and capitalize on it not to simply run at each other and trade blows.

If strategy to you means no contingency, no randomness involved (like your chess comparison suggests) then it's good to recognize that wesnoth is generally not the game for you. Especially not balanced multiplayer setups. And also certainly not popular Isar games. Standard wesnoth game play is fairly far from games like chess and intentionally so.

If you want a more chess-like experience then you could try the "Advanced Wesnoth Wars" addon that lets you disable randomness.

[nj666]

The way to win is usually to create an imbalance

Yeah, by getting lucky and and watching opponent losing 75% fight, then 68% fight, on turn 3.

[nj666]

Just played with that mod and feels much better, I recommend

[Juanito_91]

Hey, I've done a fair bit of grinding on Wesnoth, and on some fast maps like Isar, RNG can really ruin a game before your strategy even takes shape. Losing a key unit on turn 2 because a 90% hit gets through really stings. I've learned to play with variance: maximize positions, force the opponent into risky trades, and never rely on a single "key" fight. On large maps, it often evens out. On Isar... yeah, the impact of the first fight is often too severe.