Should size (of weapon :)) matter?

[Dave]

Adding options to the ruleset is the worst option of all. It adds the most burden to coders and to scenario/unit designers, the most complexity in the code, the most confusion to players, all for options that probably won't be used by everyone.

We're not abandoning the KISS principle in favor of the "Let the User Choose Their Complexity" principle.

David

[Christophe33]

Adding options to the ruleset is the worst option of all. It adds the most burden to coders and to scenario/unit designers, the most complexity in the code, the most confusion to players, all for options that probably won't be used by everyone.
David

OK, it was just an idea... What about the "simple" version giving the 1st strike to unit with polearm (pikemen, halberd...) and 1st shout to the advance unit with range weapon (marksmen, longbowmen) with limitation in their use in some terrain/condition as I proposed earlier in a merge of various post including yours and Miyo's?

[quartex]

I agree that simplicity is important, easy to learn, difficult to master and all that. I like how anyone can learn the basics fast, but learning what units and good against others, and how to use various units together takes time.

I think first strike is an interesting ability. But again with the KISS principle, limiting it to certain terrian types seems like a bit too much info to have to remember. (so I can use it in terrain X,Y,Z but not in A,B,C?) First shoot sounds a bit odd, perhaps we should have first strike - ranged, and first strike - melee? How hard would such an ability be to add?

[Dave]

A basic '1st strike' would not be hard to add. I'm still a little dubious about the ranged version. We might start with a melee version, and then we can see about a ranged version after that.

David

[Christophe33]

Some competance are fairly restricted in their usage like backstab... specially when there is no doc about it
The elf ranger ambush works only in woods...
I will be happy to have 1st strike without restriction but I was think it will be cute to limit it to some terrain to add some stragegic usage. It's not difficult to understand that a human pikemen is not at his best in forest, swamp on in water.
What about 1st arrows as a name instead of 1st shoot since it will be probably applied only to some units with bows?

[quartex]

Grammar problems. First strike is a common term (used often in Magic for example), it obviously means that you strike first. First shoot is gramatically better than first arrows, does the latter mean you arrow first? Speedshot might be better than first shoot, but I agree that we should probably implement first strike with pikemen first and such and then see how it works.

What terrains do you think first strike should work on?

[Eponymous-Archon]

Grammar problems. First strike is a common term (used often in Magic for example), it obviously means that you strike first. First shoot is gramatically better than first arrows, does the latter mean you arrow first?

I'd say that the "strike" in "first strike" is a noun, as in "You get the first strike". Kind of like drawing "first blood". In your suggestion then, "first shot".

OTOH, there can be only one "first", so it would be "first arrow".

"Strike" is also a pretty general term and could be used for both melee and ranged fighting. (E.g., "She struck the man with her fist." "He struck the enemy with an arrow." These are verbs, but you get the picture. Military moderns talk about "first-strike" capabilities involving missiles.)

[Christophe33]

It's a good sign when people argue about the naming of something rather than whether it's worth thinking about.
OK, another assay: "1st melee strike" and "1st range strike"... It's descriptive enough...The only problem is it is a bit longer than the usual description of competance.
Any better naming idea?
For the limitation of terrain (if possible or approved), I will think that human pikemen&similar should be able to use it in lands allowing setting good defence lines and not hindering the usage of the cumbersome weapons.
Plain & castle are + for 1st strike
Forest, swamp, water should - for 1st strike
The rest is more arguable:
Hills and mountains are normally good land for defensive units so could be +
Toundra: I would say + because there is no special obstacle to the usage of polearm, it might even help moving in deep snow .
Cave ? I could argue both way, there is a solid floor allowing to set the weapon ready for fight but the space can be too narrow to use it properly and hit first. if hills and mountain are + then cave could be - to equilibrate.

What about the idea that backstab still beat 1st strike?
I makes the usage of thief more interesting and give more importance into its role as a furtive unit sneaking behind to attack.
If it is not possible or desirable, then lets drop that part.

[Kunga]

Reading this more than 20 years later. It was a great idea as it seems, i love the game as it stands with the first strike for spearmen and clashers. Thank you guys for the great game you guys developed for us all to enjoy. Hope you are all doing great and maybe some day we can play some friendly BfW matches