SXRPG Version 6.9.5 -- 1.18 Server

[Mabuse]

I also found an Ice Wave later in game, which made me think as if going Arcane Melee and Ranged Cold would be even better for Cantar.

however, this is quite a daring task, because in order to benefit from it, we would have to keep 2 weapons going early on.

an we succeed with it?

lets take a look at BUILD THEORY

The answer is also related to this question

if you ask me "why did i lose?" than the answer is in most cases:

BUILD THEORY
now this may be trivial because its all basic math, but it may be worth mentioning.

HP / SLOW / DAUNTLESS


1)
- should i invest in HP or else?

the answer is in most cases. HP not in the beginning.

a) Most Heroes have +/- 100 HP at game start.
b) SLOW weapons special reduces incoming damage by 50%, has the same effect as if your HP would be double in size
c) low HP counts can regenerate for free:
- your basic regen is 15
- mega-regen with 100HP is 20
- so choice is free regen with 15 (will be 19 if you get Ankh of life for 40), or pay 150 gold to get 20 regen
- conclusion: mega regen only pay off once HP are higher
d) slow cost 300 Gold to 350 Gold depending on weapon
e) 100 additional health would cost 100/15x96 = 633 Gold


- So first off getting more HP at start is a big No No (in MOST cases). getting SLOW is much more important.
- Initial HP growth by colleting Plants and AMLA
- also delay MEGA REGEN until it makes some sort of sense
- LATER you will need additional HP else stronger bosses will oneshot you, leaving you to weak to attack them
(also yellow potions/red Potions will have more value, longer kill streaks etc)


Having this clarified, nest question rises:


2)
DAUNTLESS or SLOW

a) SLOW will reduce incoming damage to by 50%,
b) DAUNTLESS doubles up RESISTANCES up to 50% (on offense only though)
c) SLOW COST 300 to 350 (for ONE weapon)
d) DAUNTLESS cost 150 + ARMOR COST (30 gold per Point)

- so if you are able to bring you resists to about 20% in each category for 150-180 gold + DAUNTLESS Cost of 150, it would be "even" with slow, except for the fact that it would be valid for offense only
- but apply using all Weapons.
- generally speaking: if you go with upgrading one weapon then SLOW is usually the no-brainer choice, since its easier and can be used by all units
- if the goal is to get 2 weapons running (that dont have SLOW as "free" special) and have 50% damage reduction cost-effectively, the choice COULD be DAUNTLESS though, also you would need a unit with decent resistances right away.
- be tricky: some damage types are more common than others, maybe leave the most rare wil save you some bucks and allow pump other resists more.
(be sure to increase later though)
- CUIRASS: This items grant +5% blade, impact, pierce for 80 Gold, while also +50% max mana and +50% killmana
so 20% natural resistance is some kind of treshold, because getting CUIRASS will bring them to 25% and dauntless then double to 50%
while benefitting from the other advantages of CUIRASS. so whenever possible DONT raise your resistance in blade, impact, pierce above 20% - instead get CUIRASS if it is available. (however, its not avaialbe for roguemage)

so while i wondered how to get ARCANE+ICE running at the same time (will only make sense if both a available right away) -
the DAUNTLESS-BUILD-THEORY came into my mind again

will be still no easy setting it up


3)
- also its CLEAR that SLOW + DAUNTLESS will effectively quadruple your HP, so they're kinda mandatory
- because HP is extremely expensive but ofc also nessesary.


4)
SOLO/GROUP
- btw, as you see anyways, building hero on solo with 1600 gold is different from building hero for 5-player game with 850 gold, but thats a different story. on solo you will want to upgrade ONE weapon fully very early, on Group-Play you obviously have to grab some Cash first to be able to do that.
(and perhaps only get some basic ups, add slow later etc)

[Mabuse]

however, this is quite a daring task, because in order to benefit from it, we would have to keep 2 weapons going early on.

well, so far i didnt succeed with it.
so i guess its best focus on one weapon early to mid-game, and then develop somewhere mid-game a second weapon. it may be useful using a third weapon in end game. (or compensate the lack thereof via spell)

therefore using SLOW should be done before armor+armor improving abilities
main problem is perhaps also that there is no unit with a strong cold ranged

(best option is PALADIN with its default Arcane Melee and Cold Ranged bought in shop, however lacks a bit fire power.
i think roguemage/rogue in general will be best when relying on strong default weapon, setting up a shop weapon as main is too expensive for rogue.)

having said that, theres nothing wrong with cold as 2nd weapon on cantar.

[Mabuse]

Btw, there is a bug with MERC summons.
They cannot be upgraded atm. Usually it is intended that they can get a status and upgrade option when standing on shop.
will be fixed in few hours.

also Merc Contract cost will get reduced to 100 Gold. Maybe 80 Gold.
and maybe maybe maybe setting it up that you can buy more than 1. maybe infinitive (and cost of contract increases).

[Mabuse]

so version 6.9.5 is out

there is not much room left until 7.0.0
(will be come mandatory with a new map i think.


for 6.9.9
----------
following things are planned:

- add necromancy spell, which will allow player to summon non-upgradeable undead units, maybe restricted to chaotic/neutral agignment
to support the chaotic players a bit.
(will cost 50% of normal summons, so around 112 mana, but may also depend on type of the unit)

- advanced alchemy will allow to brew mana potions which will simply store own mana into a potion, at a certain percentage loss
e.g. 100 mana potion, 250 mana potion)

- mana potions will be added as random drops

- SXRPG era will get expanded (e.g. DUNE PARAGON will be added, as well as other useful units)

- compatibility with other eras:
as you can now better filter for abilities, unkown abilities with no known flags will be deleted at game start, other abilities with known flags e.g. heal-abilities will be converted into abilties supported by the game at start. so you can better play with other eras and not worry about abilities mess up gameplay.


beyond that i guess theres tiem for another map then.


----------------------
Current Version:6.9.5
Bugfix
----------------------

6.9.5
-------

bug-fix:
---------
- fixed bug that merc-summons could not be upgraded anymore
(they have now access to an right click menu, and can be upgraded (leveled up) in shops as it should)

balance:
---------
- Mercenary Scroll cost reduced to 80 gold

[llllllllllllllll]

I think here is the better place to talk.

A new map is cool. Actully I'd like a samll map that's playabel in 3h, but still with having the sx rpg fealing. Sadly all maps takes really long 8h+ besides ch1, that's done in 1-3h (but to easy for experienced players).

Reduced armor cost for warrior-type class units down to 20 gold will help. Currently we try rogue warrior. It's not as bad as I thought, but still to expensive to build.

Something bad I noticed is the drop off useless items. For example fearless or healing, teleport in solos too. Those could be dead if you have the wrong alignment in case of chaotic cloak. Currently I'm testing Mage of Light, there fearless isn't working sadly.

Anyway, with more players, the odds are higher that someone can use a item. But maybe, give an option to covert them to gold in case it can't be taken. Maybe 30 gold as a weapon you sell or just 20.

[llllllllllllllll]

Another thing I noticed. For the pre given abilities I never take the dmg increasing once.

The best is probably to get another ability spot
Close 2nd is water and depending on the map cave movements.

Then there is scout and brawler. Maybe scout in a big group and brawler if you have ahigh melee dmg unit, that you use as a ranged unit (Wose, Troll or HI). Both are specific, but have their place.

Atm I hardly consider anything but, ability, water or cave. Some are specific and dmg buff always not worth it.

Maybe the dmg increasing once can be improved, more dmg or better more hp.

[llllllllllllllll]

I wonder if hp is to expensive. Obviously you don't wanna, buy it early on. Tbh I almost never buy it, but some in the late.

You also get hp by leveling, yellow potions or boss drops later.

Maybe a high hp regen warrior can be a possibility with a reduced hp cost.

[Mabuse]

Another thing I noticed. For the pre given abilities I never take the dmg increasing once.

Maybe the dmg increasing once can be improved, more dmg or better more hp.

well, there was a math behind it, but now as the abilities became more useful and more plentiful to chose from
it may be considered to add +1 damage to the damage trait (+3 damage total)

this is 150 gold in damage useable right away, nothing to sneeze at, if you want an immediate decent damage boost
and dont really need terrain upgrades or something else.

unless you really need the extra point beside the ability scroll you can always buy an ability scroll later for 150. so why not get the 150 right away in damage. because 150 gold worth in ability point will most likely not have an effect in early game, and in 5 player game starting gold can be scarce
in most cases you would think it no good choice but there was a time i always took it unless i really needed something else.

so agreed, now with abilities are more useful and more to chose from, it need a slight buff, rogue equivalents may be underpowered also, and need tobe adjusted.

Something bad I noticed is the drop off useless items. For example fearless or healing, teleport in solos too. Those could be dead if you have the wrong alignment in case of chaotic cloak. Currently I'm testing Mage of Light, there fearless isn't working sadly.

Anyway, with more players, the odds are higher that someone can use a item. But maybe, give an option to covert them to gold in case it can't be taken. Maybe 30 gold as a weapon you sell or just 20.

hmm, im uncertain on this, actually i like the randomness and that not everything is useful in all thinkable circumstances, although i tried to make everything useful

but i agree an option to recycle it, could be useful, the amount of gold would be probably lower though, or even something different (like a potion) depending on item type

You also get hp by leveling, yellow potions or boss drops later.

I wonder if hp is to expensive. Obviously you don't wanna, buy it early on. Tbh I almost never buy it, but some in the late.

not to forget the green plants and scorpion tails. the also add +1 or +2 HP which is nothing to sneeze at.
in late game it may be essential to get to certain numbers to be able to attack, depending on the weapon(specials)

maybe i enable a formula that make HP cheaper (to a certain degree) the more you buy it.
so that high HP builds will gain a small discount (most likely warriors) as mages/rangers have better damage dealt/damage taken ratio but also less capabale multipliers (e.g. hail-of-arrows 2-rounds of engement vs rage 3-rounds of engement vs onrush-charge 2 round engement + 2x damage dealt/taken)

so warrior will deal with same damage-strike numbers more damage, but also take more in return and thus need more hp (and more armor)
so to strenghen HP build we may make it cheaper the more you buy it.


so thank you for your suggestions, they are very helpful and will help to balance and improve the game


i also agree with adding a small/short map. this can be done

[llllllllllllllll]

it may be considered to add +1 damage to the damage trait (+3 damage total)

this is 150 gold in damage useable

I was thinking something similar with a higher mp build. I may as well used scout in the speedrun to save up 150 in the early, but later it becomes even more.

hmm, im uncertain on this, actually i like the randomness

One time my first 3 boss item drops where useless . Maybe some can be improved, giving you divine heal if you already have heal. (most players will have heal already)

Or just a potion/gold instead. It just feels bad after the 2nd useless item early on.

not to forget the green plants and scorpion tails. the also add +1 or +2 HP which is nothing to sneeze at.

Yeah, those are pretty cool.

maybe i enable a formula that make HP cheaper (to a certain degree) the more you buy it.

That's a cool idea. I was thinking about maybe 4hp:20g and 20hp:95g. But a cost decreasing formula will be another good indirect support twards warrior. Obviously there need to be a cap.
Once it reached 3:15 it's eventully the same ratio. Probably even lower is fine. Maybe at one point, in the ulta late game (only in ch3?) it could be worth buying it for any class with high and increading dmg cost amd no strikes left.

[Mabuse]

I was thinking something similar with a higher mp build. I may as well used scout in the speedrun to save up 150 in the early, but later it becomes even more.

scout-trait also need to get +1 more move if damage trait-trait is buffed, for +3 total

One time my first 3 boss item drops where useless . Maybe some can be improved, giving you divine heal if you already have heal. (most players will have heal already)

Or just a potion/gold instead. It just feels bad after the 2nd useless item early on.

well maybe some can be improved, giving gthe next "development" stage, on an ability tree
others will be replaced with a potion, if certain perequisities are met

That's a cool idea. I was thinking about maybe 4hp:20g and 20hp:95g.

thats something to start with, i need frist to analyze how much HP is really bought during a game to estimate and calculate an effect

[Mabuse]

Or just a potion/gold instead. It just feels bad after the 2nd useless item early on.

Hah. yes. i may simply add an option like give Potion X instead of this item to every "special item"
(will not affect damage increasing items though)



btw, HP-Cost will now decrease until a certain point is reached then it will go up again. this is to ensure that HP will follow in extremely late game (which will never happen) the same fate as all other prices: they go only upwards.

the cost bottom is reached after buying 600HP (which is hard to reach in a normal game) and is like 50 gold for 15 HP, (saved about 850 gold until then)
then it goes up again to 95 gold for 15HP and beyond.

ofc the effect will really kick in at the higher HP numbers. buying 200Hp will save you about 100 gold
in the very late game this can be a good addition though once you run out of strikes to compensate and keep up the stats.

if you go the full circle you would have bought 1230 HP and maybe saved 1900 gold.

this effect may be restricted to warriors and rangers (non magic class)

[Mabuse]

Or just a potion/gold instead. It just feels bad after the 2nd useless item early on.

Hah. yes. i may simply add an option like give Potion X instead of this item to every "special item"
(will not affect damage increasing items though)

after playing around with this i think it will be better , that the "useless" items also grant a bonus which make them "not-that-useless", e.g.

"book-of-movement-spell" not only grants movement spell, but also increase its efficiency by 10%

so you basically always want to have these
i think i reduced their usefulness primarily for magic users so they will leave them for the non-magic users, but i see it in rare cases not good, if a series of them drop in a row.


there are a few items that can be recycled though, like robe-of-lichking that cannot be taken by fearless units of lawful units, so they can always be recycled.

or e.g. rope, or amulet of water if not needed.

[llllllllllllllll]

scout-trait also need to get +1 more move if damage trait-trait is buffed, for +3 total

isn't 2 mp worth 3 dmg anyway?

[Mabuse]

scout-trait also need to get +1 more move if damage trait-trait is buffed, for +3 total

isn't 2 mp worth 3 dmg anyway?

depends

lets assume unit with 5 base moves.
targetted moves 10 or 11.

- with 10 its 90 gold
- with 11 its 110 gold

at start MOST players wont go 10 moves, maybe 9, or even 8 - since they wont to be able to kill stuff and get more gold more quickly.
ofc special speedrun solo scenarios are something else.

in later game you may aim fpr 12 or 13 moves, but is it needed?

So SCOUT trait is also an investment in the FUTURE when you aim at e.g. 13 moves, which would be worth 150 (the last two), so actually it CAN be more valuebale in later game, while damage will kick in right away. (OLD VERSION +2 moves for scout))

also scout trait maybe of more value for units with 4 base moves

the advantage of damage trait is simply that it matters right away and will be due to this the better choice if the outcome is even.
and if the outcome is higher on the scout side, as long the additional damage will help you (and thus is needed in one way or another) damage may be the better choice, and scout trait the way to go to have some bucks saved in mid game.


but as said, if going for 12 moves with base 5 unit scout-trait 180 gold now (with NEW BALANCE +3 moves for scout). damage trait is 150 right away. 11 moves are 150 gold. at long term goal 13 moves it may get interesting with a value of 210 gold, so you are 60 gold ahead in long run.


so if we increase damage-trait value, scout trait also need to be buffed or it will be redundant. i personally never go higher than 11/12 base moves, all other moves will be from items (or not) - so for me scout trait is almost in all cases redundant.
(but i think its great that you went for high mobile unit in your cantar speedrun, to show other strategies are valid)

[llllllllllllllll]

I guess your right with buffing scout too, 3 mp is fine. Also dmg cost is increasing, but slowly.
However, as you said scout is an investment in the future whereas dmg is useful right from the beginning.

so if we increase damage-trait value, scout trait also need to be buffed or it will be redundant. i personally never go higher than 11/12 base moves, all other moves will be from items (or not) - so for me scout trait is almost in all cases redundant.

I think you can start with 7-11, depending on what you want to do. To clear the nearby cave at the first turn or to wall up killing the first waves.
Later I buy some, maybe up to 12-13, but also get 1-2 more mp by drops. Sometimes in the mid you'll buy a mp upgrade with some mp left, let's say you have 2/11 when you buy 1 more you have 2/12 in total, so that you can restore the full 10 mp with a shop cyan potion.