Winds of Fate

[Sandsculpture]

I played in hard (3rd) difficulty.
Some scenerio have severe balance problems about the four difficulty levels.
S4：too high enemy income in higher difficulty:

Spoiler:

2*[12 24 36 48]

In my attempts the naga leader never survives longer than 10 turns, if I don't save-load to kill a leader in early-game.
[14 18 22 28] is enough as merman fighter cost 14.
S8: too slow enemy spawn rate in low difficulty:

Spoiler:

[16 8 4 2] turns per wave

In the easiest difficulty the spawn is so slow that player will ignore them maybe [7 5 4 3] is better
S9: The initial 4 yetis always charge at the player, very punishing for our saurians. Currently the number is not affected by difficulty.
In lower difficulty the max number of yetis need to be decreased. maybe [2 3 3 4]?
S11: frightening starting gold difference over difficulty :

Spoiler:

[ON_DIFFICULTY4 960 480 240 120]

[name]

S4：too high enemy income in higher difficulty:

Spoiler:

2*[12 24 36 48]

In my attempts the naga leader never survives longer than 10 turns, if I don't save-load to kill a leader in early-game.

Hmm, at the higher difficulty you maybe should need to kill the southeastern enemy leader early in the game, since you have a temporary power advantage over him at the start. He has only 48 starting gold and two castle tiles to recruit from versus your 120 gold and four castle tiles, and you can assassinate him or occupy his keep when he move off of it to personally attack your forces (he is a proud and reckless commander).

But I see your point that the naga leader may die too easily if it does not get a lot of help from the player. So I will try varying its gold and income with the difficulty levels so it can survive longer on the higher ones.

S8: too slow enemy spawn rate in low difficulty:

Spoiler:

[16 8 4 2] turns per wave

Yeah, I have been thinking about how to handle this issue since Telchin reported it a little while ago. Hopefully reducing the 16 turns to 12 will not be too hard for any players on the easiest difficulty.

S9: The initial 4 yetis always charge at the player, very punishing for our saurians. Currently the number is not affected by difficulty.
In lower difficulty the max number of yetis need to be decreased. maybe [2 3 3 4]?

I agree, probably even a wider spread like [1 2 3 4] starting yetis makes sense. So in your playthrough you would have faced 3 yetis rather than 4.

S11: frightening starting gold difference over difficulty :

Spoiler:

[ON_DIFFICULTY4 960 480 240 120]

Having this much variation is actually intentional; it hopefully allows players of any skill level to play through the campaign. Newer campaigns like Eastern Invasion and this one have a broader range of difficulties to serve this purpose.

[name]

A lot of detailed and useful feedback was given on Discord/IRC so I am reposting it and responding here so it does not get lost:

I’m a fan of WoF. Lorewise, I think its very good. I think a lot of the story concept sin WoF, such as castes, weren’t explained properly, which was confusing. The elves just letting the drakes in was weird. It was also weird how all the elves followed so easily and the dialogue in the scenario could be improved. When the saurians mention Saurgrath it sounds far too weird, as they live very far from Saurgrath and most saurians are from their own clans. I don’t like the vairable recall costs, though that isn’t lore.

Good points. In your play through did you find the lore book in scenario 2 (it is a bit north of the orcish captain you have to capture alive)?

Yeah, the scenario where you first encounter the elves was probably too goofy to get across how much more numerous and better organized the elves of Wesmere were than Gorlack's small flight or how nimbly elves move through forest.

Saurgrath is the capital of the Saurian Empire which will fall in LoW (all lore regarding Saurgrath and the Saurian Empire comes from LoW) about twenty years after WoF takes place. So at this time their capital city may still have enough cultural significance for one of the saurians to mention it in passing?

On WoF - I've read the post on forum about it's removal from 1.16, and I think what it was before should have been improved instead of completely revamped. Females were rare and valuable members of Drake society, they were protected, and I see no point in them being Dominants and risking themselves on the battlefield, with all inherent dangers. Yes, they are larger and stronger, like all reptiles, and can fend for themselves, but not so much that they can be used in war. The same applies to Saurians, but their male to female ratio is not revealed, so their greater social flexibility makes more sense.

The elves' reaction to the appearance of drakes on their borders is beyond stupidity, and the fact that they forgot each other, although both of them have their own keepers of knowledge, seems illogical, at least for the former. A senseless war with people because of the whims of the new allies, given the opportunity to migrate to the north, also does not look well thought out.

Their pact with the dwarves is meaningless without changes to the lore in other campaigns, which is something I'm usually against, depending on what they are of course. I don't quite understand what happened in the cave with the undead, and the fact that the Drakes had to fight the Dragon, although their kinship is obvious, and this is not the same cave in which Khrakrahs lived in SoF, also raises questions. The fact that their entire race went into exile at the behest of one individual, no matter how great the Dominant Morogor was, somewhat disrupts the sequence of arrival of races on the Great Continent - first Humans, then Orcs, and then the Drakes. Also, why didn't they do this earlier, before Haldric founded Wesnoth? Orcs migrated en masse from the Green Island, they should have caused more problems and ships, but this did not happen. Bear in mind that I only read WoF, I might have missed something.

Hmm, my guess is maybe half these things become more clear when you play the campaign because there is a certain amount of visual story telling, jokes, context and sequencing of events/dialogue which are hard to parse from reading the strings and game logic. But the other half are due to mistakes I made packing too much trivial lore into some critical later scenarios - particularly Harvest (7) and Overlook (8).

The reason the elvish lady welcomed in the saurians (and drakes) is (for better or worse) explained in her lost diary, which the player can find in the panthers' pen. It is odd that the long lived elves forgot the drakes existed on the Great Continent thousands of years ago, but they likewise forgot the orcs were anything more than a children's fable (as shown in The Rise of Wesnoth) after a similar amount of time. The nature of the undead creature in the cave is left as a mystery for future exploration (for better or worse). Not all drakes went into exile from the Western Continent, it is only the drakes on the Morogor Archipelago who are descendants of the exiles led by the disgraced Dominant Morogor (the Morogor archipelago was named after him once they settled there). The drakes do not fight against Khrakrahs in this version (the mainline one), instead they all fight on the same side. The reason the drakes did not migrate sooner was because they did not know/remember any way back to a landmass beyond Morogor until the arrival of humans from the Green Isle; they basically studied and followed the route taken by human and orcish ships to reach the Great Continent.

Regarding the drake females controversy, I agree it was an overreaction. Ultimately, the political wind was blowing in the direction of turning the drakes into a species of hermaphrodites, if not for this change to sex parity.

The best part of WoF's story was when it was dealing with drakes and Gorlack was front and center. When it started veering off into other stuff I quickly got lost. I still don't know what the whole deal with Nova was about. I assume it was some kind of oblique reference to some obscure bit of Wesnoth lore...

As WoF lore goes, I very much liked the different castes and their interactions, as well as the "final boss" and the resolution of it. I thought WoF did a great job making drakes feel properly alien - but still relatable - instead of just humans with wings. In my mind, this is the biggest selling point of the campaign, and was very well done.

I disliked the Avatar of Nova and past/future lore. Partially because it mostly isn't explained in-game (IIRC), but also because I feel it adds to neither Gorlack's story nor that of any other mainline campaign. I also share concerns about the progression: the variable recall cost, lack of gold carryover, and ability to recruit L2s.

In one scenario of WoF, there's a lich named "Avatar of Nova", who's not an actual lich but rather the manifestation/puppet/avatar of a some powerful being called Nova. This isn't explained much in-game, but campaigns/Winds_of_Fate/story/Past_and_Future_Drake_History_(Spoilers).txt file contains a great deal more detail. It's very detailed and impressive, and also mostly irrelevant to Wesnoth mainline as it all happens either way before or way after (not sure how it interacts with UtBS). I would generally consider stuff in-game to be canon, with non-player-facing documents/wikis/etc to be suggestions and ideas

Yeah, Nova was somewhat a product of design-by-committee. Originally, this character was a regular lich (with a different, wesfolk name) that had come over as part of Jevyan's undead legion. But your predecessor SP lead wanted liches to be much more special and rare, so the character was changed to a surviving lich-lord from the Green Isle. But that was then considered unsatisfactory because she wanted to rewrite the lich-lords as being (IIRC) something like incredibly powerful demigods native to the Green Isle, as part of her proposed total rewrite of all mainline canon for which she wanted a paid art commission.

The issue of payment was a sticking point for the project council so negotiations dragged out for months, leaving canon in a state of limbo between the old and the new, all the while WoF was being (re)written to meet her requirement that it have much more lore (to be considered for reentry into mainline). The paid commission never happened but for years after we were given the impression some or all of the "new cannon" was still going to happen, just slower and piecemeal since it was being done on a volunteer basis. It only became clear some months ago this was never going to happen at all.

So setting the drake lore mostly in the distant past and future was necessary to avoid the constantly shifting, unreliable state of the game's canon over the past several years. Also, having the drakes only slowly reappear as a major power as we approach "The Fall" era helped explain why they make so very few appearances in other campaigns.


Regarding the campaign's recall costs in 1.18, the following conversation may help explain (but not excuse) my rationale for setting them so high as I did:

Welcome, I am here to complain on varied recall costs in Winds of Fate. I think building army only to pay for them as much as for recruiting already on max level and lossing them like nothing is nonsense, make me feel like keeping everyone with XP almost enough to advance but to nevertheless not exceed it in order not to pay 20/30 gold more. Maybe there should be some changes in recalls but paying for units trained to get into this high level just as for new high level recruits is not needed.

Your criticisms are valid and I actually agree with them. Basically, the recall mechanic in Winds of Fate is an imperfect solution to the fundamentally broken recall system of mainline campaigns.

The problem with a typical campaign is that it is a linear sequence of scenarios (like in many traditional strategy games such as StarCraft) married to an experience system taken out of a nonlinear, open world, role playing game.

In a strategy game, players are generally put through a sequence of carefully balanced scenarios (following a story line) that get gradually more challenging and complicated, while carefully granting them access to new units which are stronger, more complicated and more expensive. Everything is tightly controlled so that each scenario is fun, challenging and winnable at the outset.

In a role playing game, players are generally free to move about and take on whichever battles they choose, be them hard or easy. If a battle looks too tough players can avoid it and instead grind experience and loot by opportunistically attacking easier enemies and quests.

So typical strategy games give highly curated and balanced game play at the cost of taking away a lot of player freedoms, whereas typical role playing games provide an imbalanced mess of a world but give players all the freedom and knowledge they need to manage it on their own terms. Both styles of game are excellent in their own ways, which is why they each grew to become so popular over the decades.

But the two styles do not combine well the way a typical wesnoth campaign tries to do so. Carryover of gold and experience (as recall-able veterans) makes mid and (more so) late campaign scenarios either much too easy or much too hard. Some campaigns try to solve this with a recall list wipe but a lot of players hate this with a fiery passion.

Winds of Fate's solution is to take a step back from trying to combine the two genres and just be a traditional, linear flow strategy game campaign. I tried to make each one of the scenarios as unique, balanced and fun as I knew how, and also give players as much freedom inside that scenario as possible - which is why there are basically no hard turn limits anywhere. But inter-scenario power creep was sacrificed to make that happen. So there is no gold carryover and the power of recalls is roughly on par with that of fresh recruits.

Generally I understand what's that supposed to do but playing Winds of Fate it becomes very frustrating in "The Ancestor" which anyway is in my opinion badly written scenario from technical reasons. Drakes having bad defence on snow have to fight yetis, altogether with varied recall costs it makes whole thing very hard and completing it I had to loss almost entire army. Maybe better solution would be to make smaller cost differences like 20 for level one 30 for level 2 40 for level three or similiar. I know 20 for recall can make last scenarios too easy but we shouldn't make it too hard as well. In addition there can be way to just change the recruit list in first scenarios so that player's team won't get too strong too quickly and be on similiar strenght like enemy teams.

Which difficulty level did you play on? I am going to rebalance this scenario during my next update for the campaign and one of the changes I am considering is to vary the number of yetis by difficulty. So something like:
easy = none
normal = 1 yeti
hard = 2 yetis
nightmare = 4 yetis

The fact you lost almost your entire army is actually not bad at all, because this campaign is balanced so that you do not need any veterans to beat any of its scenarios. You could play the entire campaign with only fresh recruits. So if you just barely make it through a tough scenario with almost no surviving soldiers there is no need to worry or reload. All that matters is that you made it to the next scenario.

I've used normal difficulty and had 4-6 yetis on my way. Last scenario I completed using only recruited gliders so I believe most scenarios can be completed like this (still not sure about "The Ancestor" in current version.

Another way of looking at it is you can solve 1-3 significant problems with variable recall costs:
1. Make cheaper units worth recalling.
2. Keep later scenarios fun and balanced while avoiding hated recall list wipes.
3. Eliminate turn limits.

The higher the variable recall costs the more of these problems are solved.

You can solve problem #1 just by setting the recall cost to the original recruit cost. So recalling a Royal Guard would cost 14g instead of the usual 20g.

But to remedy both #1 and #2 you may need something like... the original recruit cost plus half of the difference between the unit's current cost and original cost. So now a Royal Guard costs 37g to recall instead of 20g.

And to fix all three problems you need perhaps 75% to 100% of the unit's current cost. So 45g or 61g for a Royal Guard instead of 20g.

Given the unpopularity of 100% recall costs and the META of carefully packing recall lists with units possessing experience approaching their next advancement... I have been looking for a better solution. And I think it might be recall costs equal to 75% the current (recruit) cost plus some amount to represent the value of its experience if (and only if) it is not maximum level (so just a flat 75% for most level 3 units since they are AMLA). The "some amount" representing experience value will probably have to be not just a linear interpolation but some kind of exponential curve interpolation so that the cost of recalling a level 1 only approaches 75% the cost of its level 2 advancement when it is very close to achieving that advancement.

[Roge_Tebnelok]

The reason the elvish lady welcomed in the saurians (and drakes) is (for better or worse) explained in her lost diary, which the player can find in the panthers' pen.

I've read it again and I'm still not convinced. Saurians are frail and willing to cooperate with whoever can be useful, but Drakes are the exact opposite. If they two are the only ones participating in these

Spoiler:

rituals

, how could they possibly try to use Drakes as the

Spoiler:

material

, if they can't even pass their doors because of their size? I know individual Elves are shady types, but that was too stupid, even for her.

It is odd that the long lived elves forgot the drakes existed on the Great Continent thousands of years ago, but they likewise forgot the orcs were anything more than a children's fable (as shown in The Rise of Wesnoth) after a similar amount of time.

IIRC, Orcs never appeared on the Great Continent before TRoW. The fact that Elves have any knowledge of them can indicates that they met them somewhere else.

The reason the drakes did not migrate sooner was because they did not know/remember any way back to a landmass beyond Morogor until the arrival of humans from the Green Isle; they basically studied and followed the route taken by human and orcish ships to reach the Great Continent.

How long is the sea route from Morogor to the Great Continent and how long did Humans spend there as refugees before defeating Jevyan and the Founding of Wesnoth? Orcs followed them soon after, it's the only known route, so they couldn't reach the northernmost isle only as WoF began. They needed supplies as much as Haldric's band did, the isle wasn't empty. If it was captured, Drakes should have know much earlier. If they had so much trouble with Morogor sinking and hunger rising, they should have migrated or at least send scouts with the next orcish fleet. And why didn't Jevyan attack them to add to his army of undead?

[Dalas120]

Yeah, Nova was somewhat a product of design-by-committee. Originally, this character was a regular lich (with a different, wesfolk name) that had come over as part of Jevyan's undead legion. But your predecessor SP lead wanted liches to be much more special and rare, so the character was changed to a surviving lich-lord from the Green Isle. But that was then considered unsatisfactory because she wanted to rewrite the lich-lords as being (IIRC) something like incredibly powerful demigods native to the Green Isle, as part of her proposed total rewrite of all mainline canon for which she wanted a paid art commission.

The issue of payment was a sticking point for the project council so negotiations dragged out for months, leaving canon in a state of limbo between the old and the new, all the while WoF was being (re)written to meet her requirement that it have much more lore (to be considered for reentry into mainline). The paid commission never happened but for years after we were given the impression some or all of the "new cannon" was still going to happen, just slower and piecemeal since it was being done on a volunteer basis. It only became clear some months ago this was never going to happen at all.

So setting the drake lore mostly in the distant past and future was necessary to avoid the constantly shifting, unreliable state of the game's canon over the past several years. Also, having the drakes only slowly reappear as a major power as we approach "The Fall" era helped explain why they make so very few appearances in other campaigns.

Yikes. Well then. I hadn't been aware of any of this, and appreciate you filling me in.

I agree with Yumi's goal of "let's make liches feel special", but to me that mostly means "let's not use random backstory-less liches in the middle of nowhere" (*cough* Valley of Death *cough) or liches as regular recruits. If changing things at this point is still on the table, I'm fine with both of your originally proposed options: either a surviving/hiding lich from Jevyan's legion, or a weakened lich-lord who fled the Green Isle's destruction.

Regarding canon moving forward: after the TSG and TDG reworks I don't intend to dramatically alter/remove the overarching plots of existing Wesnoth campaigns (though details and minor characters may be replaced). I generally consider anything that happens or is spoken of in-game to be canon, and anything else to be guidelines, inspiration, or advice. Hope that helps (and let me know if you don't agree with this direction).

But the two styles do not combine well the way a typical wesnoth campaign tries to do so. Carryover of gold and experience (as recall-able veterans) makes mid and (more so) late campaign scenarios either much too easy or much too hard. Some campaigns try to solve this with a recall list wipe but a lot of players hate this with a fiery passion.

Winds of Fate's solution is to take a step back from trying to combine the two genres and just be a traditional, linear flow strategy game campaign. I tried to make each one of the scenarios as unique, balanced and fun as I knew how, and also give players as much freedom inside that scenario as possible - which is why there are basically no hard turn limits anywhere. But inter-scenario power creep was sacrificed to make that happen. So there is no gold carryover and the power of recalls is roughly on par with that of fresh recruits.

Another way of looking at it is you can solve 1-3 significant problems with variable recall costs:
1. Make cheaper units worth recalling.
2. Keep later scenarios fun and balanced while avoiding hated recall list wipes.
3. Eliminate turn limits.
The higher the variable recall costs the more of these problems are solved.

Ok, gotchya. I agree with your problems, but I don't feel variable recall costs are the right solution (and in the current community survey, they've also been rather unpopular). Not to the extent that I would ask they be removed from WoF, but I probably wouldn't look favorably on new/reworked campaigns featuring it.

I'm of the opinion that leveling units and building your army is a core part of the Wesnoth gameplay loop, and is a big part of what makes gameplay fun and stakes feel meaningful. When variable recall costs are used to de-emphasize carrying an army from scenario-to-scenario, they also de-emphasize the fun aspects that come along with that.

Simply put, I think that players care a lot more about fun than they do about balance. Balance is certainly a part of fun - but it shouldn't be achieved in a way that *sacrifices* fun. Players are happy to fix balance by save-scumming or redoing the previous scenario or even restarting the entire campaign, but there's not nearly as much they can do about a campaign that they don't enjoy.

That said, I DO agree with most of the problems you listed - and I do think some of them impact fun as well as balance. In my campaigns, I've tried to mitigate the scaling issue in numerous different ways:

- alternative objectives. The ending of EI contains both alternative objectives and a branched easy/hard split. A player who's struggling can get an easy victory by skipping the alternative objectives and going for the easy branch, but a player who's doing well is still able to seriously challenge themselves.

- limited XP. For example, the first few scenarios of TDG involve mainly fighting L0 goblins, who're hard to farm XP off of. The next scenario is puzzle-ish, and the one after that involves only hero units and no recruits. By the time I get to the the 6th/7th scenario, I was elated I'd managed to get a single level 3.

- free recalls. For a couple scenarios of TDG, I manually recall some high-level player units. If the player has no high-level player units, I spawn new ones instead. In that way players still get the joy of building a recall list, but we can also guarantee that they'll have SOME leveled units even if they lost everything last scenario.

- occasional gold-eater scenarios. By mixing in the occasional scenario that's nearly impossible to complete with carryover gold, we can ensure player gold reserves don't snowball out of control. I've never heard a player complain about a gold wipe, unlike recall wipes.

- scaling up. EI's final few scenarios are drastically larger in scope than the rest of the campaign. Even if you spend the rest of the campaing recalling level 3s, you're still very likely to need fresh recruits in the final few scenarios.

- few villages. Not only does having few villages reduce the early finish bonus (less swingy), it also makes upkeep a more significant factor, which helps to penalize players with large numbers of high-level recalls.

- short campaigns. In the HttT revision I'm working on, the campaign is heavily branched/open-worlded so that the player only plays 10-ish scenarios in a single playthrough (instead of the original 24) - I hope this will make snowballing much less of an issue, without needing to cut any content.

- long turn limits with expected early finish bonuses. Nobody likes losing to a turn limit, so I generally make sure it's easy to win well before - but the next scenario expects you to do so and to have that early finish bonus.

- alternative turn limits. Again, nobody likes losing to a turn limit - but it's less frustrating to lose to ever-growing enemy spawns, or to environmental damage that grows every few turns. With mechanics like this, a scenario can have no turn limit but still avoid infinite farming.

- alternative objectives. Defense or survival scenarios are generally very popular, and those effectively have 0 turn limit.

- in one scenario, TDG gives you a choice between sending one or more veterans away to fight in the next battle, or using them in this battle to eventually die against hopeless odds. The better you perform in this battle, the more gold you get in the next.

- EI's "recall list wipe" gold mechanic is heavily foreshadowed, and its design makes it easy to get a few units through while making it much harder to get a large number of units through.

Not giving these examples because I expect massive changes to WoF; just wanted to clarify my general design philosphy, that I feel it creates a more enjoyable game to work with Wesnoth's RPG aspects.

[Gothyoba]

Please keep the gender structures of drakes. They’re much more interesting that way, and also it doesn’t make sense in my opinion that they wouldn’t send females into battle. They can decide not to for societal reasons, but nothing biological would force them not to. In fact, given the lack of separate female sprites, it would appear there is little easily visible sexual dymorphism between them, which would mean that females would not in fact be larger or prbably even stronger than males like for some other reptiles.

I don’t think I ever found the lore book in scenario 2. Reading through in the .cfg files it sounds like it would have clarified some confusing parts of Drakish Society to me.

Overall, I love WoF. I love storywise, and I find it very enjoyable to play. I’m happy this was added to mainline. Otherwise I might have never pkayed it. I didn’t know it was a thing until it was added, and despite seemingly being very hated by a portion of the community I find it to be a very good and high quality campaign. I like that we now have drakish perspective on Wesnoth’s world.

Finally, instead of criticizing WoF, I’d like to say that based on the Wesmere scenarios, I am now thinking Wesmere is a temeperate rainforest. It makes sensebwhen you consider its dense jungle-like descriptions, possibly indicating a vey hydrated forest floor, and the swampy areas encountered in the Harvest scenario. Also, the storybtext described darkg green there, (btw I don’t want this changed, this isn’t a critcism, it’s just a cool theory that would make no sense without WoF). My idea is that it slowly increases in elvation until reaching thr mountains, with the lower regions closer to sea level being readily hydrate by the Great River, with an immense amountif rainfall creatign swampier regions along parts of the rainforest.

For my (unrealted) project to recreate the workd of Wesnoth in Minecraft, I think this kind of temprate rainforest is what I’m going to try to replicate. I might also consider adding some swamps in the first scenarios of my AOI rework.

[Celtic_Minstrel]

On WoF - I've read the post on forum about it's removal from 1.16, and I think what it was before should have been improved instead of completely revamped. Females were rare and valuable members of Drake society, they were protected, and I see no point in them being Dominants and risking themselves on the battlefield, with all inherent dangers. Yes, they are larger and stronger, like all reptiles, and can fend for themselves, but not so much that they can be used in war. The same applies to Saurians, but their male to female ratio is not revealed, so their greater social flexibility makes more sense.

It sounds like someone hasn't realized that, in saurian society, the females are the warriors. The Saurian Skirmisher line is entirely female.

[holypaladin]

It sounds like someone hasn't realized that, in saurian society, the females are the warriors. The Saurian Skirmisher line is entirely female.

Now it is but it was introduced very late and I still feel weird about it.

[holypaladin]

Leaving aside the strange behavior of the elves because this has already been mentioned by others, I don't understand why we have mermen in Wesmere when they landed with Haldric and not in the middle of the continent but in the Bay of Pearls. (Unless there are some other large mermen communities at that time that I don't know about?)

[Gothyoba]

Leaving aside the strange behavior of the elves because this has already been mentioned by others, I don't understand why we have mermen in Wesmere when they landed with Haldric and not in the middle of the continent but in the Bay of Pearls. (Unless there are some other large mermen communities at that time that I don't know about?)

Because its swampy and merfolk like swampy places. Also, they can move around. So this is quite reasonable. What doesn't make sense is dolphins in an tiny, swampy lake.

[Roge_Tebnelok]

The same applies to Saurians, but their male to female ratio is not revealed, so their greater social flexibility makes more sense.

It sounds like someone hasn't realized that, in saurian society, the females are the warriors. The Saurian Skirmisher line is entirely female.

I realized that when I wrote, but it's still a relatively new thing and I don't see any problems if their roles are mixed. Saurians sizes differ between individuals, and looks like that is the decisive factor what place they have in society.

[Roge_Tebnelok]

Because its swampy and merfolk like swampy places. Also, they can move around. So this is quite reasonable. What doesn't make sense is dolphins in an tiny, swampy lake.

They like water and reefs, swamp has more earth that merfolk avoid, it makes sense for them to live in lakes and rivers, but not in the swamps, even if they are connected to a smaller body of pure water. Even though they aren't slowed by this terrain, it doesn't mean they like it.

[tinwen]

I am playing Wesnoth v1.16.9 (this is the version available with current Debian stable distribution), and downloaded Winds of Fate (latest, 3.0. from the add-ons server. There seems to be a bug in "The contention" scenario. At the last turn some code popped up and I lost although I had a clear advantage.

I'm not sure how to post a screenshot here, the error message is basically "file not found".

Since I have an older version of the game, the bug is probably known already, or, this might be a compatibility issue. But how can I work around it in 1.16? Do I have to kill Karrog to win?

[white_haired_uncle]

I'm not sure how to post a screenshot here, the error message is basically "file not found".

Use the Post Reply button, not the Quick Reply box. Then you will get an Attachments tab.

Or, from the title screen there's an "i" icon, follow that to Paths which will show you where you log files are so you can cut and paste text.

[tinwen]

I am playing Wesnoth v1.16.9 (this is the version available with current Debian stable distribution), and downloaded Winds of Fate (latest, 3.0. from the add-ons server. There seems to be a bug in "The contention" scenario. At the last turn some code popped up and I lost although I had a clear advantage.

I'm not sure how to post a screenshot here, the error message is basically "file not found".

Since I have an older version of the game, the bug is probably known already, or, this might be a compatibility issue. But how can I work around it in 1.16? Do I have to kill Karrog to win?

Here is the screenshot.