Drarvish miners

[holypaladin]

Since the dwarvish miner has become a part of mainline units maybe make the dwarvish equivalent of a human peasant? (I think that's what a standard dwarf could do). He could be advanced to a dwarvish warrior, a dwarvish thunderer or a dwarven scout.

[Duke_Anax]

Why is it even L1? The stats look like it should be L0, which would fit the role as a base for other dwarven units.

[holypaladin]

I agree! Dwarfes has no L0 units in database while miner looks like ideal for this. At least cost was reduces from 19 to 5, that's a good change.

[fishrose]

Since the dwarvish miner has become a part of mainline units maybe make the dwarvish equivalent of a human peasant? (I think that's what a standard dwarf could do). He could be advanced to a dwarvish warrior, a dwarvish thunderer or a dwarven scout.

I like this idea!

Relatedly, I don't like the use of the word "grunt" in the unit description:

Dwarvish miners are the grunt workers of dwarvish society.

I feel like the word "grunt" is thematically associated with the orcs, so it's not stylistically optimal. We also probably shouldn't use a word that could be interpreted by some to be derogatory when describing a legitimate profession with real-life equivalence (i.e. players who are miners in real life may not appreciate the profession being described as "grunt work").

Edit: perhaps something similar to the description for human peasants? "Miners are the primary producers of dwarvish society. They extract ores and other raw materials for weapons and artefacts, but do not participate in the crafting process itself. They have no military training, but can still do some damage with their picks." (compare to humans: "peasants are the backbone of the rural economy")

[holypaladin]

Since the dwarvish miner has become a part of mainline units maybe make the dwarvish equivalent of a human peasant? (I think that's what a standard dwarf could do). He could be advanced to a dwarvish warrior, a dwarvish thunderer or a dwarven scout.

I like this idea!

Relatedly, I don't like the use of the word "grunt" in the unit description:

Dwarvish miners are the grunt workers of dwarvish society.

I feel like the word "grunt" is thematically associated with the orcs, so it's not stylistically optimal. We also probably shouldn't use a word that could be interpreted by some to be derogatory when describing a legitimate profession with real-life equivalence (i.e. players who are miners in real life may not appreciate the profession being described as "grunt work").

Edit: perhaps something similar to the description for human peasants? "Miners are the primary producers of dwarvish society. They extract ores and other raw materials for weapons and artefacts, but do not participate in the crafting process itself. They have no military training, but can still do some damage with their picks." (compare to humans: "peasants are the backbone of the rural economy")

That is also accurate fact, making miners L0 dwarf unit with possibility of advance may also result in including them to some dwarf campainings. And yes, I like the proposed describtion

[Jagedew]

Good idea

[Dalas120]

Agreed that they'd make more sense as the dwarvish equivalent to a peasant. In the HttT revision I'm working on, we currently have their stats as:

level 0
11 gold, 19xp, 4 moves,
25 hitpoints (10% resistance to everything)
5x3 pierce melee
advances to Dwarvish Fighter, Dwarvish Guardsman, Dwarvish Ulfserker

"Miners are the grunt workers of dwarvish society. They take precious ores out of the ground, but do not take part in the crafting of weapons or artifacts. Despite having no military training, their weighty pickaxes can deal substantial damage, and their naturally sturdy build makes them more resilient than the civilians of other races."

[Spannerbag]

Agreed that they'd make more sense as the dwarvish equivalent to a peasant. In the HttT revision I'm working on, we currently have their stats as:

level 0
11 gold, 19xp, 4 moves,
25 hitpoints (10% resistance to everything)
5x3 pierce melee
advances to Dwarvish Fighter, Dwarvish Guardsman, Dwarvish Ulfserker

"Miners are the grunt workers of dwarvish society. They take precious ores out of the ground, but do not take part in the crafting of weapons or artifacts. Despite having no military training, their weighty pickaxes can deal substantial damage, and their naturally sturdy build makes them more resilient than the civilians of other races."

Heh, great minds... I did something very similar, with:

• Dwarvish Masons (same advancements as HttT miners!),
• Tinkers; advances to Fighter,Scout,Thunderer, and
• Historian (deliberately rather weak and expensive); advances to Witness.

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag

[holypaladin]

Agreed that they'd make more sense as the dwarvish equivalent to a peasant. In the HttT revision I'm working on, we currently have their stats as:

level 0
11 gold, 19xp, 4 moves,
25 hitpoints (10% resistance to everything)
5x3 pierce melee
advances to Dwarvish Fighter, Dwarvish Guardsman, Dwarvish Ulfserker

"Miners are the grunt workers of dwarvish society. They take precious ores out of the ground, but do not take part in the crafting of weapons or artifacts. Despite having no military training, their weighty pickaxes can deal substantial damage, and their naturally sturdy build makes them more resilient than the civilians of other races."

That is good change, I would lower his hitpoints to 23 and meele attack to 4x3 and will be alright

[holypaladin]

And I insist on warrior, thunderer and scout as advancements

[DuncanDill]

And I insist on warrior, thunderer and scout as advancements

You do know warrior is not a unit right? As for thunderer being an advancement, I believe it is too powerful. Though, I would add scout in replacement of berserker line.

[holypaladin]

And I insist on warrior, thunderer and scout as advancements

You do know warrior is not a unit right? As for thunderer being an advancement, I believe it is too powerful. Though, I would add scout in replacement of berserker line.

Yes, I was meant dwarvish fighter no doubt. As for thunderer you may be right it's not best solution to add him in this line.

[Duke_Anax]

I'd say Fighter, Scout, and maybe Ulfserker. Going from pickaxe to war axe.

Might also be an idea to go from Miner to Smith to Runesmith.

[MoonyDragon]

My own proposed changes from https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/9158

Perhaps I'm a few weeks late to this discussion... Nevertheless I'd like to propose some changes to the current stats:

1. Remove the special [resistance] tag and instead nerf his HP to 21.
2. Replace the Ulfserker advancement with Thunderer. The other advancements are fine.
3. Change his damage from 4-3 to 5-2.

The Ulfserker and Scout are rather marginal units to the dwarvish faction, who both use special resistances and have 1 MP extra. I think it more sensible to give them their own L0 unit like I did with the 'Dwarvish Woodcutter' in my add-on 'Default L0 Era'.
On the other hand, the Fighter/Guardsman/Thunderer all share the same resistances and movement points. They also form the mainstay of most dwarvish units in the overwhelming majority of campaigns and add-ons. If add-on creators will use the Dwarvish Miner in their future campaigns, I'd imagine they'll want it to level into those units.
The damage nerf is a compensation for the unusual toughness of the Miner compared to other L0 units. It also differentiates the Miner from the Woodcutter and allows him to plausibly level into the three above-mentioned advancements.

One last minor issue: I cleaned up the color palette of the Dwarvish Miner in my add-on. Could you also update the core miner graphics to use my improved ones?

For reference: http://units.wesnoth.org/1.16/Default_L ... 0_era.html

[Jagedew]

Agreed that they'd make more sense as the dwarvish equivalent to a peasant. In the HttT revision I'm working on, we currently have their stats as:

level 0
11 gold, 19xp, 4 moves,
25 hitpoints (10% resistance to everything)
5x3 pierce melee
advances to Dwarvish Fighter, Dwarvish Guardsman, Dwarvish Ulfserker

"Miners are the grunt workers of dwarvish society. They take precious ores out of the ground, but do not take part in the crafting of weapons or artifacts. Despite having no military training, their weighty pickaxes can deal substantial damage, and their naturally sturdy build makes them more resilient than the civilians of other races."

Impact would be more logical than pierce for the damage type of pickaxe. For crushing stones and ore.
And Fighter, Scout and Guardsman would be good advancement choices.