Generative AI Art

Production of artwork for the game by regular contributors takes place here.

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doofus-01
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Generative AI Art

Post by doofus-01 »

Wesnoth does not accept AI-generated art, this post is an explanation.

I've wrestled with the issues of AI art and what the official Wesnoth policy should be. My basic thinking hasn't changed much from viewtopic.php?t=56294. The AI performance has improved since then (sort of [*]), but the general landscape hasn't changed much.[**]

I've tried to see what other indie and open-source games projects had to say about this publicly, and the main takeaway I got is that we would be industry leaders if we had a well-defined stance with clear guidelines. A notable example of a project in a similar situation is https://github.com/endless-sky/endless- ... sions/9325

Creative Commons seems generally supportive of the technology, but wary of how it will be executed [***]. OSI seems to be similarly ambivalent.[****] I'm trying to ask other people involved in open-source game art, including former art leads for Wesnoth, what they think. That will take a while but so far, wary ambivalence seems to be the feeling.

In the absence of clear guidance, I have to go to with some level of gut feeling and introspection: What are we doing here? Wesnoth UMC is easy to create (making it high quality isn't easy, but it's still easy to understand). Part of the joy we have to offer is accessibility. If this space were flooded by Generative AI art, the art novice branch would be lost. As an open-source project, we must have some level of idealism. For this reason, regardless of future legal rulings, there are two (related) issues we should have with AI:
1. AI collages, it doesn't create, but it competes with creators - It's great that you get a painting of a wizard or whatever, but it's a Faustian bargain[+] We're not a game studio trying to make payroll, we shouldn't sell our souls. If there is nowhere for amateurs to get exposure, we are eating the seed corn, there is no future.[++]
2. AI companies aren't benign - The people pushing AI abusively consume human effort[+++] and incredible amounts of energy[++++]. The general technology is a tool, like fire or fission, it's not inherently good or evil. But we shouldn't embrace the offerings and frameworks of the current industry leaders.
tl;dr - I'm against allowing AI art here; maybe that will change, but I see no reason why we should be pressured into accepting it. We would gain some assets, but we would lose some of our community function and we would be embracing the framework of immoral people. I make no attempt to address human art that used an AI tool somewhere, or what the threshold would be.

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[*}Stable -Diffusion couldn't draw people anymore once the porn was removed from the training data(,https://arstechnica.com/information-tec ... dy-horror/) which was predictable if you don't buy into "AI training is just like an artist visiting the museum".
[**]https://www.polygon.com/ai-artificial-intelligence ; https://www.copyright.gov/ai/ai_policy_guidance.pdf (Note the dates)
[***]https://creativecommons.org/tag/artific ... elligence/
[****]https://opensource.org/press-mentions/h ... y-not-very (Like most of you, I don't have a subscription to the Financial Times, but there are other links in that roll, and an implied endorsement.)
[+] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/ ... se/677595/
[++]https://crooked.com/podcast/social-medi ... f-slop-ai/ (there's some fluff in the beginning, but they do get to the point eventually)
[+++] https://www.businessinsider.com/openai- ... tstxt?op=1 & https://brighterworld.mcmaster.ca/artic ... velopment/
[++++] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/07 ... ive-years/
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-00478-x
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Pentarctagon
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Re: Generative AI Art

Post by Pentarctagon »

Thanks for researching and writing this up :)
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doofus-01
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Re: Generative AI Art

Post by doofus-01 »

Thanks. It's no expert whitepaper, but it is what I will link to when future AI quibbles come up.

If project members object to something written here, please let me know.

The gray area of human creator art that used an AI tool somewhere is probably the most important case, as far as what would actually crash hopes into a brick wall, and is not addressed here because it is a thorny issue - probably best dealt with case-by-case, as long as everyone enters into the situation with their eyes open. But AI art presented as-is or minimally touched-up by a human is the greater flood risk, and I think this post makes the stance on that sort of thing clear enough.
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| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
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Saizo-Luz
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Re: Generative AI Art

Post by Saizo-Luz »

Interesting! :hmm: I hope I understood correctly, as I'm not a native speaker!

Are there still artists here creating art for the game? From what I've seen, everyone always takes artwork from each other - the only downside to this is that sometimes a character makes history (epic character and epic story)... and then there's the same image in another campaign. Now the part about it becoming a flood, that's true! Probably because it will be much easier, and you won't need to marathon campaigns and eras looking for artworks for characters.
Also, there aren't images for different schedules (rainy, stormy, cloudy, and maybe others). I used an AI image generator tool a while ago for a presentation I needed to do - and I was amazed at how easy it is to create images so quickly and with good quality.

I will try to find the tool again and attempt to create some images of different schedules using as a basis the ones the main line has - and I will send them here (if allowed) for comparison to try to help you reach more concrete conclusions. It's a big issue, and I know how frustrating it is to have to abandon our roots and change something that's already part of our environment.
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Re: Generative AI Art

Post by Saizo-Luz »

So... I took the liberty and brought here some schedule images created by an AI image generator. For some reasong I have to put the images at the end...

It's way different! I don't think schedules images would be a problem - it's not like everyone is gonna create an infinite number of schedules.
Now... portraits... :|
Even if someone were to use AI-generated portraits, it doesn't even make sense to use them in eras - it would have to be campaigns and probably all the portraits would have to be the same style - otherwise it would look really weird. Now... story images... I don't think that would be a good idea either!
When people here want to use images for stories, sometimes they use images from Google Images :lol: ! Furthermore, it makes much more sense to use a map as an image (like mainline campaigns). Landscapes and images for story are just to take up space and weigh down the add-on (in my opinion).

What do you guys think about that? :hmm:
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DuncanDill
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Re: Generative AI Art

Post by DuncanDill »

Saizo-Luz wrote: July 9th, 2024, 12:14 pm So... I took the liberty and brought here some schedule images created by an AI image generator. For some reasong I have to put the images at the end...

It's way different! I don't think schedules images would be a problem - it's not like everyone is gonna create an infinite number of schedules.
Now... portraits... :|
Even if someone were to use AI-generated portraits, it doesn't even make sense to use them in eras - it would have to be campaigns and probably all the portraits would have to be the same style - otherwise it would look really weird. Now... story images... I don't think that would be a good idea either!
When people here want to use images for stories, sometimes they use images from Google Images :lol: ! Furthermore, it makes much more sense to use a map as an image (like mainline campaigns). Landscapes and images for story are just to take up space and weigh down the add-on (in my opinion).

What do you guys think about that? :hmm:
Its not so muc the ability of the ai, than the ethics.
viewtopic.php?p=690573#p690573 Curent Maintainer of Talentless Mage
viewtopic.php?p=689462#p689462 Gaze at my art :D
Saizo-Luz
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Re: Generative AI Art

Post by Saizo-Luz »

Its not so muc the ability of the ai, than the ethics.
I know! I'm just highlighting more negative points besides that! And I actually think that new schedule images would be good, because we have very few.
As I said:
I don't think schedules images would be a problem - it's not like everyone is gonna create an infinite number of schedules.
That wouldn't be an issue in my opinion - now, portraits and story images...
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DuncanDill
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Re: Generative AI Art

Post by DuncanDill »

Saizo-Luz wrote: July 9th, 2024, 8:21 pm
Its not so muc the ability of the ai, than the ethics.
I know! I'm just highlighting more negative points besides that! And I actually think that new schedule images would be good, because we have very few.
As I said:
I don't think schedules images would be a problem - it's not like everyone is gonna create an infinite number of schedules.
That wouldn't be an issue in my opinion - now, portraits and story images...
Ah I see, it was a bit hard to understand what you were saying. As for schedule images, I really think no ai art is good as it is, wesnoth should have a sort of skill that was put into making it. Anyways, we have all the schedules we need for now.
viewtopic.php?p=690573#p690573 Curent Maintainer of Talentless Mage
viewtopic.php?p=689462#p689462 Gaze at my art :D
Saizo-Luz
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Re: Generative AI Art

Post by Saizo-Luz »

Ah I see, it was a bit hard to understand what you were saying.
Sorry! ^_^
I'll talk to doofus in private about schedule images.
I want to know something... how do you put the name of the speaker in the quote? Like... Saiz-Luz wrote: :?:
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Re: Generative AI Art

Post by white_haired_uncle »

Saizo-Luz wrote: July 10th, 2024, 12:06 pm
Ah I see, it was a bit hard to understand what you were saying.
Sorry! ^_^
I'll talk to doofus in private about schedule images.
I want to know something... how do you put the name of the speaker in the quote? Like... Saiz-Luz wrote: :?:
I hit that button to create this post.
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Saizo-Luz
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Re: Generative AI Art

Post by Saizo-Luz »

white_haired_uncle wrote: July 10th, 2024, 2:37 pm I hit that button to create this post.
Thanks! :)
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