Campaigning for dummies

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Atreides
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Campaigning for dummies

Post by Atreides »

The title basically refers to me. But this dummy has just learned something about campaigns that he'd like to share.

The trick I learned is towards the end of a scenario, stop recruiting! Send your leader forward to help/gain xp. Unlike in long attritional warfare (what I'm used to) there is no point to recruiting once you have broken the enemy. Those units will never reach the fight and only end up in the recall list as 0 xp 20 gp units! Only a few cases where those might be useful. Now it is true that most campaigns only let you keep a small percentage of gold you have left at the end but it is actually better to accept that wastage than to waste it on troops you will never use!

Feel free to add more tips for dummies (i.e. stuff that might seem obvious to good campaigners but never occurs to those of us with a "different" mind set : )

Oh and a request: please no advice on tactical fighting tips or such. Just campaign specific tips if you would. That is things that only happen in campaigns.
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Spannerbag
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Re: Campaigning for dummies

Post by Spannerbag »

Atreides wrote: October 17th, 2023, 12:24 am The trick I learned is towards the end of a scenario, stop recruiting!...
As another dummy I'd like to expand on the advice of the Wesnoth strategy guide: accept you'll lose units and plan accordingly (I'm terrible at this).
What I understand this to mean is you can at least to some extent decide which unit(s) are going to be lost.

So, if you can afford it, recruit some units that are expendable and use them as "blockers" when your more valuable units need to perform a strategic withdrawal run away. However, beware skirmishers! These are much harder to block and how best to handle them varies with the situation.

You often don't need that many but it's worth recruiting them early so they're there when needed.
They can also:
  • die heroically opposing (and blunting) the ai's initial rush,
  • explore (reveal/uncover) shrouded areas.
  • go first through barriers (e.g. wooden gates) or possible ambush/trap locations,
  • act as decoys - if wounded and/or placed on poor terrain they might lure at least some enemy forces away from more important units or locations.
Heh, I might sound great on theory but still manage to muck up in practice - mainly (I suspect) because I don't think ahead enough... :doh:

Anyway, just my tuppence worth!

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag
SP Campaigns: After EI (v1.14) Leafsea Burning (v1.17, v1.16)
I suspect the universe is simpler than we think and stranger than we can know.
Also, I fear that beyond a certain point more intelligence does not necessarily benefit a species...
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Atreides
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Re: Campaigning for dummies

Post by Atreides »

Spannerbag wrote: October 17th, 2023, 11:30 am
Atreides wrote: October 17th, 2023, 12:24 am The trick I learned is towards the end of a scenario, stop recruiting!...
As another dummy I'd like to expand on the advice of the Wesnoth strategy guide: accept you'll lose units and plan accordingly (I'm terrible at this).
Yup, I dunno how many campaigns I've just quit because I lost a few units and figured, well that's the end. I think the problem is that in my little excuse for a brain I equate campaign with keeping all your "campaigners" alive to the end. Yeah that's the problem, I'm too softhearted and wanna keep them all alive to grow into big strong level 3's! You know, nurture my "babies". LOL.
I think you have a very good point there. Campaigning is gonna entail brutal decisions on who lives and who is cannon-fodder. It rather goes against my nature to play favourites and pick a few units to protect and feed the xp to. But I guess that's the harsh reality of campaigns.

Oh my. Now I wanna make a campaign of my own where you must keep every unit alive.
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Spannerbag
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Re: Campaigning for dummies

Post by Spannerbag »

Atreides wrote: October 17th, 2023, 4:51 pm Yup, I dunno how many campaigns I've just quit because I lost a few units and figured, well that's the end. I think the problem is that in my little excuse for a brain I equate campaign with keeping all your "campaigners" alive to the end. Yeah that's the problem, I'm too softhearted and wanna keep them all alive to grow into big strong level 3's! You know, nurture my "babies". LOL.
I think you have a very good point there. Campaigning is gonna entail brutal decisions on who lives and who is cannon-fodder. It rather goes against my nature to play favourites and pick a few units to protect and feed the xp to. But I guess that's the harsh reality of campaigns.

Oh my. Now I wanna make a campaign of my own where you must keep every unit alive.
Same here!
Well, as one dummy to another it took me a loooong time for this penny to only recently properly drop.
Another related matter is how to manipulate the AI, advanced players seem able to influence it by placing units in what seem to me odd places, but it works.
That said, I haven't actually done a proper analysis of these moves (what can get where, what it blocks etc.) due to my usual impatience! :doh:

Speaking of a campaign where you have to keep every unit alive... yeah, interesting - though I suspect the RNG :evil: would wreck those plans.
One (of the many) campaign ideas whirling round my head (most of which probably will never get created due to lack of time) is effectively very similar, though you can lose units it's a very low resources campaign so lose too many and game over.
Cheers!
-- Spannerbag
SP Campaigns: After EI (v1.14) Leafsea Burning (v1.17, v1.16)
I suspect the universe is simpler than we think and stranger than we can know.
Also, I fear that beyond a certain point more intelligence does not necessarily benefit a species...
white_haired_uncle
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Re: Campaigning for dummies

Post by white_haired_uncle »

Atreides wrote: October 17th, 2023, 12:24 am The title basically refers to me. But this dummy has just learned something about campaigns that he'd like to share.

The trick I learned is towards the end of a scenario, stop recruiting! Send your leader forward to help/gain xp. Unlike in long attritional warfare (what I'm used to) there is no point to recruiting once you have broken the enemy. Those units will never reach the fight and only end up in the recall list as 0 xp 20 gp units! Only a few cases where those might be useful. Now it is true that most campaigns only let you keep a small percentage of gold you have left at the end but it is actually better to accept that wastage than to waste it on troops you will never use!
If I'm going to lose most of my gold anyway, I'll spend some on recruits that I won't use right away, if at all. Never know when the recruit list is going to change, so I always like to have a couple extra shamans/mages on the recall list for example. Also gives you a chance to roll for traits, I find having units with quick to be particularly valuable at times.

Personally, I'd be more worried about neglecting XP for my leader than "wasting" gold on units I probably won't end up using.

I often do the same thing when it's clear I'm going to end up with negative gold. It's kind of cheating, IMO, but while there really should be a penalty for having negative gold carried over (like units deserting/defecting), it's within the rules. Come to think of it, units on the recall list should probably require upkeep as well.
Speak softly, and carry Doombringer.
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Re: Campaigning for dummies

Post by Spirit_of_Currents »

Spannerbag wrote: October 18th, 2023, 10:02 am Speaking of a campaign where you have to keep every unit alive... yeah, interesting - though I suspect the RNG :evil: would wreck those plans.
What about a campaign where, if one of your units dies due to extremely bad luck, you don't lose immediately but the recruit and recall costs of all your units increases by one gold piece? It may sound realistic that deaths make surviving soldiers less willing to enter the battlefield.
There are very much electrical currents in my brain.
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Atreides
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Re: Campaigning for dummies

Post by Atreides »

white_haired_uncle wrote: February 3rd, 2024, 5:12 am Personally, I'd be more worried about neglecting XP for my leader than "wasting" gold on units I probably won't end up using.
Actually this is bad advice that one keeps being told in so many campaigns: Get XP for Leader. It actually only applies to reloaders since the loss of your leader while "getting XP" to a bad die roll is always possible. For those who play "real death" never ever let your leader get within range of a unit that could theoretically kill it. That's my advice. : )
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Re: Campaigning for dummies

Post by white_haired_uncle »

Atreides wrote: February 4th, 2024, 9:04 pm
white_haired_uncle wrote: February 3rd, 2024, 5:12 am Personally, I'd be more worried about neglecting XP for my leader than "wasting" gold on units I probably won't end up using.
Actually this is bad advice that one keeps being told in so many campaigns: Get XP for Leader. It actually only applies to reloaders since the loss of your leader while "getting XP" to a bad die roll is always possible. For those who play "real death" never ever let your leader get within range of a unit that could theoretically kill it. That's my advice. : )
You can gather XP while never putting your leader at risk (kind of the point of doing it during the mop-up phase). Personally, I kind of like my leader to advance, get more HP, and be able to level up if injured/poisoned. Babying your leader when there's no real danger may put you at a significant disadvantage when you come to a scenario where hiding behind skirts is not an option.
Speak softly, and carry Doombringer.
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Spannerbag
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Re: Campaigning for dummies

Post by Spannerbag »

Spirit_of_Currents wrote: February 3rd, 2024, 8:22 am
Spannerbag wrote: October 18th, 2023, 10:02 am Speaking of a campaign where you have to keep every unit alive... yeah, interesting - though I suspect the RNG :evil: would wreck those plans.
What about a campaign where, if one of your units dies due to extremely bad luck, you don't lose immediately but the recruit and recall costs of all your units increases by one gold piece? It may sound realistic that deaths make surviving soldiers less willing to enter the battlefield.
That's one way, in my campaign (if I ever get to create it, it's a loong way down the list and I don't have much time just now) I have a different way of mitigating risk.
But yes, I think something like that could make for an interesting campaign.
Also how about receiving a small gold "refund" for dismissing a unit from recall?

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag
SP Campaigns: After EI (v1.14) Leafsea Burning (v1.17, v1.16)
I suspect the universe is simpler than we think and stranger than we can know.
Also, I fear that beyond a certain point more intelligence does not necessarily benefit a species...
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Atreides
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Re: Campaigning for dummies

Post by Atreides »

white_haired_uncle wrote: February 4th, 2024, 11:06 pm You can gather XP while never putting your leader at risk (kind of the point of doing it during the mop-up phase). Personally, I kind of like my leader to advance, get more HP, and be able to level up if injured/poisoned. Babying your leader when there's no real danger may put you at a significant disadvantage when you come to a scenario where hiding behind skirts is not an option.
Oh yeah I agree that when you've got the enemy down to his leader and your guys are all around him your own leader can usually go in for the 16 xp or whatever. Some exceptions of course would be if your leader was lower max hp than the enemy leaders max dam.

Of course "real danger" means different things to different players. Reloaders never face real danger. Real Death players have to be very cautious.

No comment on badly designed scenarios where you can die no matter what you do. Instant trash-bin for me. : )
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Re: Campaigning for dummies

Post by Konrad2 »

Atreides wrote: February 4th, 2024, 9:04 pm Actually this is bad advice that one keeps being told in so many campaigns: Get XP for Leader. It actually only applies to reloaders since the loss of your leader while "getting XP" to a bad die roll is always possible. For those who play "real death" never ever let your leader get within range of a unit that could theoretically kill it. That's my advice. : )
I also want to disagree with this. it's only bad advice if you execute it badly.
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Re: Campaigning for dummies

Post by Atreides »

Konrad2 wrote: February 6th, 2024, 3:16 pm
Atreides wrote: February 4th, 2024, 9:04 pm Actually this is bad advice that one keeps being told in so many campaigns: Get XP for Leader. It actually only applies to reloaders since the loss of your leader while "getting XP" to a bad die roll is always possible. For those who play "real death" never ever let your leader get within range of a unit that could theoretically kill it. That's my advice. : )
I also want to disagree with this. it's only bad advice if you execute it badly.
I suppose I always read that advice as "Get XP for your leader at any cost!!!!". Admittedly that's never the way it's actually been worded. : ) But we all read extra stuff into what we see. Alas that's what I always saw. I suppose if the advice was worded "Carefully get XP for your leader." I'd probably have read it correctly. Well maybe... heheh.
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Re: Campaigning for dummies

Post by Konrad2 »

Atreides wrote: February 6th, 2024, 10:06 pm I suppose if the advice was worded "Carefully get XP for your leader." I'd probably have read it correctly. Well maybe... heheh.
game advice wrote:..You need to keep him safe,...
xD
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Re: Campaigning for dummies

Post by Atreides »

Noooooo not combining things. That too much for impulsive types like me. : ) They say get XP. Me get XP on turn 1. They say stay safe. Me never move leader. Me confused. ; )
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