Categorizing UMC music by moods

[egallager]

Spannerbag and I started on tangent on this topic over in my thread about mainlining UMC music: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=57215
Specifically, see this post: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=683718#p683718
Anyways, I'm splitting off a separate thread for that topic, specifically, this one. We're mostly focusing on categorizing the tracks by mood for "The Earth's Gut" (TEG) for now; see this issue: https://github.com/cooljeanius/The_Earths_Gut/issues/11
The moods that TEG currently has are "Battle", "Epic", "Calm", "Underground", "Sad", "Normal", and "Creepy", although theoretically more could be added. Also "Creepy" is new and isn't fully utilized everywhere where it could be used yet. I've categorized the ones through UMC Music Book 03 so far, and was going to review the categorizations that Spannerbag came up with for UMC Music Book 04 next. Feel free to chime in with your own impressions of what mood(s) you think the various UMC Music Book tracks fit best!

[egallager]

Re: Spannerbag's commentary on Book 04:

OK, here's my thoughts on book4.

A "?" means I'm confident but not certain the track works for that mood.

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Track				Mood(s)			Comment

Battalions.ogg			Normal			Fairly sedate

Agreed on "Normal"; I was thinking maybe also "Calm" due to the "Fairly sedate" part?

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Battle_Hymn_of_Wesnoth.ogg	Normal,Underground?	Difficult to classify;  mix of quiet+calm & louder+lively

Agreed on "Normal", I was thinking maybe also "Calm" here as well, too... I was expecting it to build up to something, but it never really did...

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BattleLoop.ogg			Battle			<30 seconds

Agreed.

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Broken_Truth.ogg		Underground

I wasn't really able to decide on a mood for this one myself, but upon re-listening I guess "Underground" works... maybe also "Calm"?

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death_march.ogg			Sad			Not *that* sad, but IMHO best fit to available moods

I was thinking "Creepy" or maybe also "Underground"...

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Elfs.ogg			Calm, CUE_ELVES

Agreed.

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Enchanted_Forest.ogg		Calm

Agreed, I was thinking maybe a bit "Sad" too, perhaps?

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Everlasting_Night.ogg		Battle			Long, slowish intro then lively.  Not calm, sad or creepy IMHO. 4+ mins

I had this one as "Creepy"/"Underground" for the first half (the intro) and then "Battle"/"Epic" starting around 2 minutes and 10-ish seconds

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FranticSketch.ogg		Battle

This track became the new mainline "Frantic", so I don't think it's really necessary to re-categorize...

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HeroDead.ogg			Sad			<40 seconds

Agreed.

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Peaceful.ogg			Calm

Agreed.

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tekkno-03.ogg			Creepy			Very difficult to classify, least inappropriate mood chosen IMHO. 4+ mins

I had this one as "calm/normal... (and even a bit creepy, although probably unintentionally so)" and "shifts to battle around the 2 minute mark"... I might add it to "The War of Terrador"

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Victorious.ogg			Normal			<40 seconds

I couldn't decide on this one, but upon re-listening, I guess "Normal" works...

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War_Glory.ogg			Battle, Normal?		<50 seconds

I had this one as "normal... and maybe a bit calm, too"

Is it work having a MOOD_UNCLASSIFIED or MOOD_MISC for tunes that simply don't obviously fit into any other mood?

Well, where would such macros be used? I don't think it's a good idea to have unused macros sitting around... if a track is hard to classify, I think it's better to either invent a new mood that can actually be used somewhere, or to just not use the track at all...

[egallager]

...ok, Book 04 committed to TEG here: https://github.com/cooljeanius/The_Earths_Gut/commit/52db4bf61f52db0f4f00d889ab8d782cf30e8564

[egallager]

btw I tried this code:

FWIW if it's the latter, since all the TEG music macros look almost identical could you maybe do the same thing as for CUE to save typing?

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#define TEG_MUSIC_UMC_TEMPLATE SONG BOOK_NUM	# Deliberately named differently so not inadvertently called by typos
#arg BOOK_NUM					# Default to music book 01
01#endarg
#ifhave ~add-ons/UMC_Music_Book_{BOOK_NUM}/_main.cfg
    [music]
        name={SONG}.ogg
        append=yes
        ms_before=8000
    [/music]
#endif
#enddef

then implement each music book thus:

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#define TEG_UMC_MUSIC SONG
{TEG_MUSIC_UMC_TEMPLATE {SONG}}
#endif
#enddef

#define TEG_UMC2_MUSIC SONG
{TEG_MUSIC_UMC_TEMPLATE {SONG} BOOK_NUM=02}
#enddef

... and so on, I'm sure you get the idea?
(Disclaimer: I haven't tested this preprocessor code so may have got something wrong...)

...but it doesn't seem to work. I tried adding some calls to #warning to it for debugging purposes, but that just led to me filing this bug:
https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/7911

[Spannerbag]

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Track				Mood(s)			Comment
Battalions.ogg			Normal			Fairly sedate

Agreed on "Normal"; I was thinking maybe also "Calm" due to the "Fairly sedate" part?

Picks up a bit at 01:20 then gets livelier at 1:45 and the drums don't bring calmness to mind, but maybe I'm being too picky... parts of it are calm

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Battle_Hymn_of_Wesnoth.ogg	Normal,Underground?	Difficult to classify;  mix of quiet+calm & louder+lively

Agreed on "Normal", I was thinking maybe also "Calm" here as well, too... I was expecting it to build up to something, but it never really did...

Suppose it does have a bit of an "aftermath of battle/action" feel to it... though drums again at around 1:50 and trumpets 02:50 are a bit jarring.
These are subjective judgements and people will have slightly differing opinions.
For me, drums and brass are never calming

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Broken_Truth.ogg		Underground

I wasn't really able to decide on a mood for this one myself, but upon re-listening I guess "Underground" works... maybe also "Calm"?

Mostly yes, but the last 30-odd seconds persuaded me otherwise.
Listening again... yeah, I guess "calm" is a decent fit, I preferred "underground" because of the percussive section (last 30 seconds or so).
Also, that last section brought to mind orcish war drums echoing through caverns or even maybe dwarf miners knocking hell out of the rock as heard from a distance.

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death_march.ogg			Sad			Not *that* sad, but IMHO best fit to available moods

I was thinking "Creepy" or maybe also "Underground"...

Was undecided about this one so yeah, "creepy" and/or "underground" also make sense to me.

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Enchanted_Forest.ogg		Calm

Agreed, I was thinking maybe a bit "Sad" too, perhaps?

The tone and key of the music seemed quite "bright" and not at all sad to me - but YMMV.

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Everlasting_Night.ogg		Battle			Long, slowish intro then lively.  Not calm, sad or creepy IMHO. 4+ mins

I had this one as "Creepy"/"Underground" for the first half (the intro) and then "Battle"/"Epic" starting around 2 minutes and 10-ish seconds

I don't get a "creepy" feeling at all from this track, though "underground" could be an option.

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tekkno-03.ogg			Creepy			Very difficult to classify, least inappropriate mood chosen IMHO. 4+ mins

I had this one as "calm/normal... (and even a bit creepy, although probably unintentionally so)" and "shifts to battle around the 2 minute mark"... I might add it to "The War of Terrador"

Agreed it's "unintentionally creepy"
Can't say it fitted "calm" better than anything else...

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War_Glory.ogg			Battle, Normal?		<50 seconds

I had this one as "normal... and maybe a bit calm, too"

You find a lot more calmness in these tracks than I do; guess you're one well chilled bod

Is it work having a MOOD_UNCLASSIFIED or MOOD_MISC for tunes that simply don't obviously fit into any other mood?

Well, where would such macros be used? I don't think it's a good idea to have unused macros sitting around... if a track is hard to classify, I think it's better to either invent a new mood that can actually be used somewhere, or to just not use the track at all...

It was more of a placeholder for "mood-less" tracks. If I didn't make a note of them somewhere I'd forget they weren't included.
But I guess a simple # Unused tracks comment works just as well.

Apologies for not doing another music book yet, life got in the way

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag

[Spannerbag]

btw I tried this code:

FWIW if it's the latter, since all the TEG music macros look almost identical could you maybe do the same thing as for CUE to save typing?

Code: Select all

#define TEG_MUSIC_UMC_TEMPLATE SONG BOOK_NUM	# Deliberately named differently so not inadvertently called by typos
#arg BOOK_NUM					# Default to music book 01
01#endarg
#ifhave ~add-ons/UMC_Music_Book_{BOOK_NUM}/_main.cfg
    [music]
        name={SONG}.ogg
        append=yes
        ms_before=8000
    [/music]
#endif
#enddef

then implement each music book thus:

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#define TEG_UMC_MUSIC SONG
{TEG_MUSIC_UMC_TEMPLATE {SONG}}
#endif
#enddef

#define TEG_UMC2_MUSIC SONG
{TEG_MUSIC_UMC_TEMPLATE {SONG} BOOK_NUM=02}
#enddef

... and so on, I'm sure you get the idea?
(Disclaimer: I haven't tested this preprocessor code so may have got something wrong...)

...but it doesn't seem to work. I tried adding some calls to #warning to it for debugging purposes, but that just led to me filing this bug:
https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/7911

Mmm... I'm good at breaking stuff.
Off the top of my head I think the issue is:

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#define TEG_MUSIC_UMC_TEMPLATE SONG BOOK_NUM	# Deliberately named differently so not inadvertently called by typos
#arg BOOK_NUM					# Default to music book 01
01#endarg

The #define probably doesn't need BOOK_NUM.
So you could try:

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#define TEG_MUSIC_UMC_TEMPLATE SONG	# NO BOOK_NUM Deliberately named differently so not inadvertently called by typos
#arg BOOK_NUM					# Default to music book 01
01#endarg

As this is my code, it still probably won't work

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag

[egallager]

But I guess a simple # Unused tracks comment works just as well.

Yeah, I've got one of those earlier in the file.

btw I tried this code:

FWIW if it's the latter, since all the TEG music macros look almost identical could you maybe do the same thing as for CUE to save typing?

Code: Select all

#define TEG_MUSIC_UMC_TEMPLATE SONG BOOK_NUM	# Deliberately named differently so not inadvertently called by typos
#arg BOOK_NUM					# Default to music book 01
01#endarg
#ifhave ~add-ons/UMC_Music_Book_{BOOK_NUM}/_main.cfg
    [music]
        name={SONG}.ogg
        append=yes
        ms_before=8000
    [/music]
#endif
#enddef

then implement each music book thus:

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#define TEG_UMC_MUSIC SONG
{TEG_MUSIC_UMC_TEMPLATE {SONG}}
#endif
#enddef

#define TEG_UMC2_MUSIC SONG
{TEG_MUSIC_UMC_TEMPLATE {SONG} BOOK_NUM=02}
#enddef

... and so on, I'm sure you get the idea?
(Disclaimer: I haven't tested this preprocessor code so may have got something wrong...)

...but it doesn't seem to work. I tried adding some calls to #warning to it for debugging purposes, but that just led to me filing this bug:
https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/issues/7911

Mmm... I'm good at breaking stuff.
Off the top of my head I think the issue is:

Code: Select all

#define TEG_MUSIC_UMC_TEMPLATE SONG BOOK_NUM	# Deliberately named differently so not inadvertently called by typos
#arg BOOK_NUM					# Default to music book 01
01#endarg

The #define probably doesn't need BOOK_NUM.
So you could try:

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#define TEG_MUSIC_UMC_TEMPLATE SONG	# NO BOOK_NUM Deliberately named differently so not inadvertently called by typos
#arg BOOK_NUM					# Default to music book 01
01#endarg

As this is my code, it still probably won't work

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag

I'm thinking maybe the issue is that maybe macros don't get expanded in preprocessor directives like #ifhave/#ifnhave... think I'll just revert to the boilerplate-y-er copy-n-paste version I had previously...

[Spannerbag]

Just listened to book 5, tried to nail down each track to one mood but didn't always succeed

# Facing the Front by cheeselord - http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=27382
# Love Theme by sur.nhm - http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=27505
# Wesnoth for the Orcs by xolodilnikus - http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=26284
# WesnothEWClar by pph - http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=26605
# first mid-quality, Thoughts by Swift - http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=22959
# Wesnoth by SpoOkyMagician - http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=23004
# Etheria by ragesoss - http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=21539
# Wesnoth5 by mus0 - http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=21036
# Theme01 by Aibohphobia - http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=20526
# Gameplay Theme by marcusvinius - http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=20002
# Maabad16 by barisurum - http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=19536
# fallen friend by Zajoman - http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=25605
# battle theme by Elemental - http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=20130

"?" means "Unsure if the track works for that mood."

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Track				Mood(s)			Comment

battle_theme.ogg		Epic, Battle?		Works for both moods but IMHO epic is best fit

Etherea.ogg			Calm

Facing_the_Front.ogg		Battle

fallen_friend.ogg		Creepy, Sad?		Sad-ish, unintentionally slighty creepy?

First-midquality.ogg		Normal, Battle?		A bit lighthearted for battle?

gameplay_theme.ogg		Sad

LoveTheme.ogg			Calm			Variant of mainline love theme? Ends abruptly (sounds cut off)

maabad16.ogg			Battle			First ~2:40 sedate then
							 more lively (mostly) until ~06:10 then
							 calm again until ~07:00 then (mostly) more lively
							Duration: 11:15

Theme01.ogg			Normal?			Has elements of calm and creepy/menacing

Thoughts.ogg			Sad, Calm?		Slightly more sad than calm?

Wesnoth.ogg			Normal

wesnothEWClar.ogg		Calm

WesnothForTheOrcs.ogg		Battle			Better fit for battle than normal IMHO

Wesnothv5.ogg			Calm			First 2 minutes very calm, last minute less so

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag

[egallager]

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Track				Mood(s)			Comment

battle_theme.ogg		Epic, Battle?		Works for both moods but IMHO epic is best fit

I had this one as "kinda halfway between battle/normal and battle/epic (IOW, just battle)"

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Etherea.ogg			Calm

Agreed.

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Facing_the_Front.ogg		Battle

I had this one as calm/normal

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fallen_friend.ogg		Creepy, Sad?		Sad-ish, unintentionally slighty creepy?

I had this one as just sad

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First-midquality.ogg		Normal, Battle?		A bit lighthearted for battle?

I couldn't decide on a mood for this one... I said, "kinda techno, but that's not really a mood..."

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gameplay_theme.ogg		Sad

Agreed.

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LoveTheme.ogg			Calm			Variant of mainline love theme? Ends abruptly (sounds cut off)

Agreed on "Calm", but maybe "Sad" too?
Edit: I'm giving it a re-listen, and it sounds pretty different from the mainline love theme to me...

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maabad16.ogg			Battle			First ~2:40 sedate then
							 more lively (mostly) until ~06:10 then
							 calm again until ~07:00 then (mostly) more lively
							Duration: 11:15

Oh yeah this one was long; I had it as each of calm (3 times), battle (3 times), normal (3 times), epic (4 times), and sad (1 time) at varying points in the song.

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Theme01.ogg			Normal?			Has elements of calm and creepy/menacing

Yeah my comment for this one was, "hm... normal, I guess"

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Thoughts.ogg			Sad, Calm?		Slightly more sad than calm?

I had this one as just "Sad"

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Wesnoth.ogg			Normal

Agreed on "Normal"; maybe also "Underground" too, though?

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wesnothEWClar.ogg		Calm

Agreed.

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WesnothForTheOrcs.ogg		Battle			Better fit for battle than normal IMHO

I had this one as "Underground", actually...

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Wesnothv5.ogg			Calm			First 2 minutes very calm, last minute less so

I just said "Unsettling" about this one, which isn't one of the existing moods that I have so far...

[Spannerbag]

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Track				Mood(s)			Comment

battle_theme.ogg		Epic, Battle?		Works for both moods but IMHO epic is best fit

I had this one as "kinda halfway between battle/normal and battle/epic (IOW, just battle)"

Fair enough

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Facing_the_Front.ogg		Battle

I had this one as calm/normal

I did think it was a bit sedate for battle and did consider normal.
As for calm... it doesn't have a calming feel to me (brass+percussion rarely does).
FWIW my vote would be for normal, but it's your call

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fallen_friend.ogg		Creepy, Sad?		Sad-ish, unintentionally slighty creepy?

I had this one as just sad

Fair enough

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First-midquality.ogg		Normal, Battle?		A bit lighthearted for battle?

I couldn't decide on a mood for this one... I said, "kinda techno, but that's not really a mood..."

Same here so normal or don't use?

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LoveTheme.ogg			Calm			Variant of mainline love theme? Ends abruptly (sounds cut off)

Agreed on "Calm", but maybe "Sad" too?
Edit: I'm giving it a re-listen, and it sounds pretty different from the mainline love theme to me...

Play the first 20 seconds of mainline love_theme.ogg then the first 20-30 seconds of LoveTheme.ogg.
To me the two melodies sound very similar.

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maabad16.ogg			Battle			First ~2:40 sedate then
							 more lively (mostly) until ~06:10 then
							 calm again until ~07:00 then (mostly) more lively
							Duration: 11:15

Oh yeah this one was long; I had it as each of calm (3 times), battle (3 times), normal (3 times), epic (4 times), and sad (1 time) at varying points in the song.

It is difficult to categorise but FWIW my vote is still battle.

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[quote][code]
Wesnoth.ogg			Normal

Agreed on "Normal"; maybe also "Underground" too, though?

Weird how different people experience/interpret things so differently.
For me, the opening of this tune brought to mind eastern/oriental rural landscapes in the sun; grassland, rice fields and so forth.
The music had more of an outdoorsy feel to me but as ever YMMV

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WesnothForTheOrcs.ogg		Battle			Better fit for battle than normal IMHO

I had this one as "Underground", actually...

I did think underground as a third possibility, but wanted to limit my indecision to no more than 2 choices.
Had a re-listen and yeah, underground fits and FWIW I'm happy with that.

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Wesnothv5.ogg			Calm			First 2 minutes very calm, last minute less so

I just said "Unsettling" about this one, which isn't one of the existing moods that I have so far...

For gameplay purposes I'd be inclined to include unsettling in creepy (and menacing in battle or epic)?
Of the available moods I'd put this either in calm (for the first ~2/3 of the tune) or maybe normal because of the last minute or so?
However if it's more unsettling to your ears then creepy or normal I guess?

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag

[egallager]

I did think it was a bit sedate for battle and did consider normal.
As for calm... it doesn't have a calming feel to me (brass+percussion rarely does).
FWIW my vote would be for normal, but it's your call

OK, so "Normal" it is, then (for Facing_the_Front.ogg)

Same here so normal or don't use?

Yeah I'm skipping that one... (First-midquality.ogg)

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LoveTheme.ogg			Calm			Variant of mainline love theme? Ends abruptly (sounds cut off)

Agreed on "Calm", but maybe "Sad" too?
Edit: I'm giving it a re-listen, and it sounds pretty different from the mainline love theme to me...

Play the first 20 seconds of mainline love_theme.ogg then the first 20-30 seconds of LoveTheme.ogg.
To me the two melodies sound very similar.

OK but would you say it fits the "Sad" mood, too? FWIW, I had the original love theme in the "Sad" mood, too...

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maabad16.ogg			Battle			First ~2:40 sedate then
							 more lively (mostly) until ~06:10 then
							 calm again until ~07:00 then (mostly) more lively
							Duration: 11:15

Oh yeah this one was long; I had it as each of calm (3 times), battle (3 times), normal (3 times), epic (4 times), and sad (1 time) at varying points in the song.

It is difficult to categorise but FWIW my vote is still battle.

I'm leaving it out just due to how long it is...

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Wesnothv5.ogg			Calm			First 2 minutes very calm, last minute less so

I just said "Unsettling" about this one, which isn't one of the existing moods that I have so far...

For gameplay purposes I'd be inclined to include unsettling in creepy (and menacing in battle or epic)?
Of the available moods I'd put this either in calm (for the first ~2/3 of the tune) or maybe normal because of the last minute or so?
However if it's more unsettling to your ears then creepy or normal I guess?

I think I'm just going to leave that one out, too...

[Spannerbag]

Yeah I'm skipping that one... (First-midquality.ogg)

What about tekkno-03.ogg?
Any thoughts about skipping that one as well?


Heh, casualties are mounting: First-midquality.ogg, maabad16.ogg, Wesnothv5.ogg and probably more to come
Very busy weekend coming up (again ) so will try and do another MB sometime next week.

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag

[egallager]

What about tekkno-03.ogg?
Any thoughts about skipping that one as well?

Oh yeah that one I already skipped; the list of skipped UMC tracks is now:

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#       blank (UMCB02)
#       ambient_loop_[2~8] (UMCB02)
#       wesnoth-[6~8] (UMCB02)
#       Final (UMCB03)
#       homeward_bound (UMCB03)
#       FranticSketch (UMCB04) (same as the new mainline "frantic")
#       tekkno-03 (UMCB04)
#       First-midquality (UMCB05) (too techno)
#       maabad16 (UMCB05) (too long)
#       Wesnothv5 (UMCB05) (too dissonant)