Orcish reproduction

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Spannerbag
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Orcish reproduction

Post by Spannerbag »

Hi all,
not sure this is the right place for this but I foolishly mentioned in a PM that I'd had some ideas about how the various BfW races might reproduce and I was asked about orcs.

Here's the post, hope you enjoy it and if there's enough interest I might post a few others.
This is basically for entertainment/fun as I don't think it usefully translates into anything that usefully enhances the game?
Spannerbag wrote: May 18th, 2023, 3:36 am Oh yeah - on a random note also had some thoughts about the biology and reproduction of some races in BfW ...
Do you think i could hear about those?...
Here's a tidied rough first draft of how orcish reproduction might work.
It is far from finished so any thoughts/comments/illogicalities gratefully received!

Orcs
Whilst it is unclear (even to orcs and goblins) whether these are two separate races or a single race with wide variation, it is the case that the two types can and do interbreed.

Orcs and goblins have no gender (or they are all the same gender) and genetic diversity is achieved via communal spawning.
A body of water (usually swamp, lake or pond because strong water currents are highly undesirable) is chosen and all that wish to take part deposit their genetic contribution in the form of spawnlings (small creatures at home in water that are rather like a cross between tadpoles and pirahna with tiny hands and legs) or eggs (from which a somewhat smaller and weaker spawnling known as a hatchling may emerge).
Together, spawnlings and eggs are referred to as orcspawn.

These spawning sites are typically well hidden from enemies (this often includes other orc tribes) and are the closest thing orcs have to a sacred site or temple.
Most orc tribes tend to use the same site(s) over and over again.

There are two reproductive strategies and it appears individual orcs/goblins have some conscious influence over which to adopt.
Higher ranking and more powerful individuals produce a small number of large and relatively well developed spawnlings.
These are mobile and active almost immediately.
Weaker individuals such as goblins or horde orcs instead produce many small eggs rather akin to frogspawn and hope that from that large number a few lucky individuals will hatch and survive.

Spawnlings preferentially feed on each other and whilst this may seem odd there is a logic to this.
First it ensures that the strongest and most cunning survive to continue the orcish race.
Second, when one spawnling consumes another something akin to mutation occurs where the predator is able to absorb some parts of the genetic material of their prey.
Whether what is absorbed is simply chosen at random or by some mechanism that identifies beneficial material is unknown (except, perhaps, by a few senior orcish shamans).

Hatchlings (those spawnlings that emerge from eggs) are less developed than spawnlings, many only have small protuberances where their larger kin have rudimentary limbs. The odds of survival for any single egg is tiny and even if they hatch they will still most likely be eaten by a large, more developed spawnling. Yet such are their numbers that some do, somehow, survive. Eggs vary in size and the size determines how large and strong the hatchling will be. Goblins produce many small eggs and not all are viable. Orcs produce larger eggs.

Orcspawn is a nutritious - if fiddly - food source for adult orcs and goblins and this is why spawnlings actively avoid orcs and goblins (in fact they seem hardwired to simply avoid all large creatures which explains why they are rarely encountered by other races).
Fortunately in their early stages of development spawnlings are well adapted to life underwater and though still air breathers they have a huge lung capacity and like dolphins can slow down bodily functions and lurk at depth for a surprisingly long time.

Eventually the few (in orcish terms anyway) surviving spawnlings gradually begin to hunt and forage for other sustenance besides each other.
This behaviour is perhaps triggered when their numbers/availability drop below some threshold thereby forcing them to develop the survival skills they will need. Or perhaps their nutritional needs change. Nobody seems to know the real reason - but it happens.
Their bodies change, limbs grow and strengthen, tails and lungs shrink and their inherent fear of larger creatures diminishes.
They spend ever more time out of water.
Once they reach the size of a large human baby (6+ months after the initial spawning) they leave the water for good.
They go abroad on land, hunting, foraging and often fighting with their peers.
Now referred to as orclings, they are ready to join the orcish race.

How orcish tribes monitor their offspring's development varies hugely.
Some let them get on with it and only take an interest when orclings begin to be seen.
Others guard the spawning site and even feed their offspring.
There are no hard and fast rules.

When it comes to adopting these feral orclings into their ranks, again the methods vary wildly.
Yet some instinct is in operation; the orclings seem drawn (presumably by smell) to those orcs of the tribe that spawned them.
Similarly the orc tribe is able to identify to a fair degree of confidence whether an orcling is "one of ours" or not, again presumably by smell.
This does not however guarantee that an orcling won't be eaten by a hungry tribe member...

Tribal elders (usually leaders and shamans) will evaluate the orclings (for cunning, viciousness and size/health).
The orclings are treated accordingly; the smallest, weakest and most stupid will become expendable goblins or horde orcs.
The small but cunning ones will get assassin training, the largest and strongest will be selected for grunt training and so on.
Note that this process is often brutal and many do not survive their "training".

Sometimes orclings do not rejoin their tribe.
Such very immature individuals have a tough time in the wild and in the long term the odds are against them.
Many are killed by orcs from other tribes, by larger predators or succumb to accident or hunger.
This probably explains why the orclings are drawn to the tribe that spawned them?


Well, that's what I've got so far.

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag
SP Campaigns: After EI (v1.14) Leafsea Burning (v1.17, v1.16)
I suspect the universe is simpler than we think and stranger than we can know.
Also, I fear that beyond a certain point more intelligence does not necessarily benefit a species...
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ChrundleTheGreat
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Re: Orcish reproduction

Post by ChrundleTheGreat »

i think in the unit description it confirms they are indeed not just same species but also the same race, and they refer to their reproductive proces as if they were animals having large litters of chidren all at once, they dont really sugest cannibalism, instead it sounds like they figth for resources and compete for survival in another way, this could technically still be the case tho, i supose its not specified i just allways imagined them as a more savage version of humas whos women never went into battle(i think its a medieval thing, almost no one exept elves, magi and desperate citizens use women for battle) but still gave birth to their "litters", just in the common mammal way, but i dont know, that does sound interesting and i think it could make sense.
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Spannerbag
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Re: Orcish reproduction

Post by Spannerbag »

ChrundleTheGreat wrote: May 19th, 2023, 8:28 pm i think in the unit description it confirms they are indeed not just same species but also the same race, and they refer to their reproductive proces as if they were animals having large litters of chidren all at once...
Yep, you're quite right, just read the orc race description (not sure I've ever read the whole thing :oops:).
I just thought my ramblings might be entertaining... but only 64 have read it as of time of writing so obviously not :doh:
Probably a case of tl;dr...
ChrundleTheGreat wrote: May 19th, 2023, 8:28 pm ...they dont really sugest cannibalism ...
True. Guess I'm just a bit darker :)
ChrundleTheGreat wrote: May 19th, 2023, 8:28 pm ... but still gave birth to their "litters", just in the common mammal way...
I suppose I just wanted to describe some truly alien ways of reproduction that weren't based on the human model but still had the capability to introduce diversity and reflected the nature of the race in question.

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag
SP Campaigns: After EI (v1.14) Leafsea Burning (v1.17, v1.16)
I suspect the universe is simpler than we think and stranger than we can know.
Also, I fear that beyond a certain point more intelligence does not necessarily benefit a species...
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ChrundleTheGreat
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Location: The land of chapaqueños

Re: Orcish reproduction

Post by ChrundleTheGreat »

Spannerbag wrote: May 19th, 2023, 9:52 pm
I suppose I just wanted to describe some truly alien ways of reproduction that weren't based on the human model but still had the capability to introduce diversity and reflected the nature of the race in question.

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag
i think thats similar to how they were in LotR(not sure tho i migth be wrong) where the were made more than bred, just asexual brutish males. but it could work as a diferent race, maybe the invention of an alquemist as an atempt to make an army to take over the world or something, in betwen burning suns and black eye? idk
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Spannerbag
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Re: Orcish reproduction

Post by Spannerbag »

ChrundleTheGreat wrote: May 19th, 2023, 10:58 pm
Spannerbag wrote: May 19th, 2023, 9:52 pm
I suppose I just wanted to describe some truly alien ways of reproduction that weren't based on the human model but still had the capability to introduce diversity and reflected the nature of the race in question.

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag
i think thats similar to how they were in LotR(not sure tho i migth be wrong) where the were made more than bred, just asexual brutish males. but it could work as a diferent race, maybe the invention of an alquemist as an atempt to make an army to take over the world or something, in betwen burning suns and black eye? idk
The only thing I recall is Gandalf saying something like the orcs were made in mockery of the elves the way trolls were made in mockery of ents (I think somewhere around where Treebeard appears). But you're right, AFAIK how the orcs reproduce isn't explicitly stated (or I missed/forgot it). The films show fresh Uruk-Hai (I guess, as they're Saruman's orcs) being "born" (unwrapped? released? forcibly hatched?) from some sort of earthy incubator IIRC.

I suppose this idea could be made into some sort of orc variant but I doubt there's any point; I don't see how it could add anything special or unique to gameplay. IMHO maybe a better way would be to rebrand and create an entirely new race? Even then not sure what "ecological slot" they would occupy in BfW that is sufficiently distinct from the existing races to make the work worthwhile? Sorry to sound negative but in the past I've had several ideas I thought were great... until I tried to put them into practice and found they didn't add to the game as much as hoped :roll:

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag
SP Campaigns: After EI (v1.14) Leafsea Burning (v1.17, v1.16)
I suspect the universe is simpler than we think and stranger than we can know.
Also, I fear that beyond a certain point more intelligence does not necessarily benefit a species...
otzenpunk
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Re: Orcish reproduction

Post by otzenpunk »

Spannerbag wrote: May 20th, 2023, 12:38 pm
ChrundleTheGreat wrote: May 19th, 2023, 10:58 pm i think thats similar to how they were in LotR(not sure tho i migth be wrong) where the were made more than bred, just asexual brutish males.
The only thing I recall is Gandalf saying something like the orcs were made in mockery of the elves the way trolls were made in mockery of ents (I think somewhere around where Treebeard appears). But you're right, AFAIK how the orcs reproduce isn't explicitly stated (or I missed/forgot it). The films show fresh Uruk-Hai (I guess, as they're Saruman's orcs) being "born" (unwrapped? released? forcibly hatched?) from some sort of earthy incubator IIRC.
This "in vitro fertilization style" way of reproduction of orcs is an invention of the movie makers, though. The original Tolkien lore is stated in The Silmarillion, that shortly after the awakening of the elves, in the age of the stars, Melkor captured many of them and tortured and corrupted them and reshaped them to become orcs, and that they multiply in the same way as the Children of Ilúvatar (elves, men) do.
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Spannerbag
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Re: Orcish reproduction

Post by Spannerbag »

otzenpunk wrote: May 21st, 2023, 9:00 am ...Melkor captured many of them and tortured and corrupted them and reshaped them to become orcs...
...and would do well as a senior manager in several large corporations :)

Cheers!
-- Spannerbag
SP Campaigns: After EI (v1.14) Leafsea Burning (v1.17, v1.16)
I suspect the universe is simpler than we think and stranger than we can know.
Also, I fear that beyond a certain point more intelligence does not necessarily benefit a species...
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