The War of Terrador

Review and rate user-made single and multiplayer campaigns and scenarios.

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egallager
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Re: The War of Terrador

Post by egallager »

vghetto wrote: September 23rd, 2021, 6:02 pm Hi,

I just noticed this UMC. It looks weird.
Anyway about this bug.
The bug is in the map. Edit maps/OT4.map with wesnoth editor and add a starting location for side 1 on one of the keeps.
Thanks for the pointer; that helped! I didn't end up using the Wesnoth editor, though, as that ruined the map file's formatting, so I used a plain text editor instead, and that worked!
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egallager
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Re: The War of Terrador

Post by egallager »

egallager wrote: September 24th, 2021, 11:01 am
vghetto wrote: September 23rd, 2021, 6:02 pm Hi,

I just noticed this UMC. It looks weird.
Anyway about this bug.
The bug is in the map. Edit maps/OT4.map with wesnoth editor and add a starting location for side 1 on one of the keeps.
Thanks for the pointer; that helped! I didn't end up using the Wesnoth editor, though, as that ruined the map file's formatting, so I used a plain text editor instead, and that worked!
(To clarify, this fix is only on master; it's not in any released version of the add-on yet... I might not do a release that includes it until after 1.16 releases, unless people want me to do one sooner...)
Malaaume
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Re: The War of Terrador

Post by Malaaume »

Heya haven’t seen your mod in awhile allloooong time ago in the early days of wesnoth hope your still working on it I absolutely loved it
Yomar
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Re: The War of Terrador

Post by Yomar »

Same here, I would love to see it for BFW 1.16.
I miss playing it.
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egallager
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Re: The War of Terrador

Post by egallager »

Yomar wrote: May 18th, 2022, 1:58 pm Same here, I would love to see it for BFW 1.16.
I miss playing it.
OK, I'll work on porting this one next...
Yomar
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Re: The War of Terrador

Post by Yomar »

Thx, very appreciated. 🙏
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egallager
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Re: The War of Terrador

Post by egallager »

Yomar wrote: May 18th, 2022, 7:08 pm Thx, very appreciated. 🙏
...ok, that was actually pretty easy! It should now be available on the 1.16 add-on server; the corresponding GitHub tag for this release is here: https://github.com/cooljeanius/The_War_of_Terrador/releases/tag/1.4.2
Konrad2
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Re: Omegas Tale

Post by Konrad2 »

Omegas Tale
S2
now cam -> now came
get the food -> Get the food

Reloading in this scenario removes 4 of the infected from the map.

The amount of gold for my enemies feels completly made up. 1000 gold for them each is too much. It was only doable in the first scenario because there was only 1 of them recruiting. (You are also basically forced to recruit grubs and nothing else.) (It's also pretty crazy that that actually works on easy.)

The advancement lines of the Xylash are very messed up.

S3
Could be improved by having the enemy spot me only if I get in their vision range, instead of when I discover them.

And the attack range of spores seems to be somewhat bugged.
"UNTLB range_infection"
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egallager
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Re: Omegas Tale

Post by egallager »

Konrad2 wrote: August 7th, 2022, 5:03 pm Omegas Tale
S2
now cam -> now came
get the food -> Get the food
OK I fixed these typos in 067acc2.
Reloading in this scenario removes 4 of the infected from the map.

The amount of gold for my enemies feels completly made up. 1000 gold for them each is too much. It was only doable in the first scenario because there was only 1 of them recruiting. (You are also basically forced to recruit grubs and nothing else.) (It's also pretty crazy that that actually works on easy.)

The advancement lines of the Xylash are very messed up.

S3
Could be improved by having the enemy spot me only if I get in their vision range, instead of when I discover them.

And the attack range of spores seems to be somewhat bugged.
"UNTLB range_infection"
Rest of these things seem like they'd require a bit more effort to address; remind me about them later...
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egallager
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Re: The War of Terrador

Post by egallager »

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egallager
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Re: The War of Terrador

Post by egallager »

egallager wrote: November 23rd, 2022, 4:48 am New release: 1.4.3: https://github.com/cooljeanius/The_War_of_Terrador/releases/tag/1.4.3
This was due to this new thread creation: https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=56444
One more new release (1.4.4) to try to get this add-on to display in the units database properly: https://github.com/cooljeanius/The_War_of_Terrador/releases/tag/1.4.4
Argothair
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Re: The War of Terrador

Post by Argothair »

I played the War of Terrador campaign on Wesnoth 1.15 a couple of times through the fifth or sixth scenario, called "Stealth is the Key." There are some great features in this campaign, and then there are a few that I think still need more work.

My favorite part is the addition of "space" terrain that only certain units can enter. This feels more interesting than just having water units, because it's not just a question of whether you move quickly or defend well in the terrain; the point is that you have to be a spaceship to go into the space terrain at all, and that makes for some interesting operational puzzles to solve. Working to gain "space superiority" and then being able to claim all the villages in outer space and/or use ships to harass enemy troops at the border of the space zones feels really cool. The designer has done a good job of placing the space hexes in interesting configurations that differ from map to map; it is very challenging to reduce a 3-D solar system to a 2-D hex map, but I think the designer has pulled that off successfully.

The overall unit progression chart is pretty good and feels Wesnothy, and the dialogue / backstory does its job of framing what's happening in each scenario so you care a little more about winning. The art is mostly very attractive, although some units are hard to tell apart, and some of the space village icons do not load for me, so they just show up as perfectly black hexes. The music and sound effects are gorgeous and sci-fi appropriate.

However, I think several of the units' combat stats are executed poorly. The main problem is that most of the Terradorian units just lack any survivability. In mainline Wesnoth, Elves have low HP, but they can usually survive a while in the forest because their defense is high and their enemy's movement is low; Ghosts have low HP, but they can usually survive a while against at least some opponents because they have a drain ability and high resistances against most types of attacks. By contrast, the Terradorian units are so weak on HP, defense, *and* resistance that there is no situation you can put them in where you can reasonably expect that they'll survive a few rounds against the Zederian enemies.

For example, the AR-02 Light Fighters have 16 hp, -60% (!!) resistance to fire, -30% resistance to pierce, and at most a 70% chance of defense on ideal terrain. The level 1 enemy spaceship, the Wasp, deals 5 x 3 piercing damage, so two rounds of attacks from a Wasp will almost always kill a Light Fighter. Similarly, the level 1 enemy infantry deals 8 x 2 piercing damage, so, again, two rounds of attacks from infantry will almost always kill a Light Fighter. At night, or if the enemy has access to an anti-ship unit, you really only need one attack to kill the Light Fighter. Levelling up the Light Fighter into a Bomber doesn't add enough protection -- with 31 hp and the same -60% resistance to fire, you can still usually kill a Bomber with one round of fire attacks. I'll still build a few Light Fighters if I need to contest space villages, but I'm forced to treat them as expendable because there's no way to protect them from enemy spaceships.

Simlarly, SpecOps (a level 2 infantry unit) have 36 HP, which are effectively reduced to 22 HP, because they have -60% resistance to pierce, the most common attack. You can and will lose a full-health SpecOps unit to a single round of attacks from a Level 1 Hawk Tank or pretty much any enemy Level 2 unit. At night, even a Level 1 enemy infantry can do about 90% damage to a SpecOps. I think the idea for the SpecOps is that you're supposed to be able to sneak around with them using their camo ability, but it doesn't really work -- they lose their camo ability every dawn and every dusk, i.e., 1 out of 3 turns. It takes more than 3 turns to go somewhere and get something useful done.

Another cool idea that doesn't quite pan out is Marksmen (a specialty level 1 infantry) have 21 HP that gets -10% resistance to pierce, so, again, they're going to go down in one or two attacks. Marksmen are supposed to be balanced by their 20% chance of getting an instant kill on their enemy, but if they miss, then you wasted your gold. To get a 2/3 chance of scoring that instant kill, you'd need 5 of them all hitting the same target, but that's usually not realistic (there will be other enemies or mountains or whatever in the way), and 5 marksmen are way too expensive to accept a 1/3 chance of just missing entirely. A leveled up Marksman gets a nightstalker ability, but its timing is unhelpfully out of sync with the SpecOps teams -- SpecOps are invisible except at dusk and dawn, and Level 2 Marksmen are invisible except by day, so if you have a mixed group of snipers and SpecOps then they're visible 4 turns out of 6.

The Recon Bikes (Level 1 scouts) have 30 HP with -50% vulnerability to pierce and -80% vulnerability to fire, so, again, they go down in one attack against most units. Another problem with the recon bikes is that their offensive ability is small enough that they're worthless in combat, so they're really just a pure scout for seizing villages. At 8 mp, the bikes can reliably outrun enemy units, which normally have no more than 6 mp.

On the other hand, the Terradorian tanks are *too* survivable. At level 2, a Terradoran VC-79 medium tank has 65 HP, which are effectively doubled to 130 HP by their 50% resistance to everything except dedicated anti-tank units. This makes the strategy for each map feel kind of repetitive and boring -- build a few recon bikes to steal villages, lots of regular Soldiers to swarm the enemy anti-tank units, and then mow down everything else with your tanks. The AI is extremely aggressive and will mindlessly charge your forces regardless of who has the advantage or what time of day it is, and at medium difficulty you always start with plenty of gold, so it is pretty easy to grab villages with your bikes, retreat the bikes before they fight anyone, keep your entire force in a big lump next to your castle, and then wait to engage until daytime. The AI will send its entire army right into your open mouth a few units at a time; once you have massive superiority, you can safely advance even at night until you reach the enemy castle; then you wait for daytime again and kill the bosses.

This routine is acceptable in the early levels when you're still learning the units, but the premise of "Stealth is the Key" is that you're supposed to sneak into the enemy camp from the north while they're distracted by an enemy to the south and kill their leaders before they even notice you're there. This is not possible because the AI will recklessly charge all the way to the northern edge of the map just to take your villages, after which they will start attacking your leaders, even if you've never engaged the enemy or 'given away' your presence on the map. It's true that the bulk of the enemy will initially head south, but I really don't understand how stealth is supposed to be an option. You can't travel all the way across the map using any camo abilities because the camo gets broken at least twice every 24 hours, and if you try to sneak around the edges of the enemy's movement ranges then the southern allies will be dead long before you can reach the enemy leaders. I'm sure the level is beatable if I just mass my units into a lump again and slowly walk down the field, but I've done that five times already and I'm not seeing the replay value in doing it a sixth time.
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