Main Factions Balance

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

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The_Gnat
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Re: Main Factions Balance

Post by The_Gnat »

DwarvenWarrior wrote: January 16th, 2020, 5:59 pm
wait wait what?? to me wesnoth is isar cross. its only MP game i will every play apart from some custom hero development maps.

other maps are boring.
It probably is better not to restart this conversation, but I agree, Isar is the best 2v2 map I have found. :)
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Krogen
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Re: Main Factions Balance

Post by Krogen »

I don't think there is much to restart. Isar's Cross is a good, casual map, it can be learned quickly, it's not too hard, takes little time etc. No wonder it's so popular, because it's indeed very good.
It's poorly balanced of course and it shouldn't be used to determine your skill as a player or make competitions. That doesn't make it a bad map. That's like saying coins are useless because you can't buy the most expensive products with them. They were just intended for something else.
"A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep." - Tywin Lannister
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The_Gnat
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Re: Main Factions Balance

Post by The_Gnat »

Krogen wrote: January 17th, 2020, 10:08 pm IIt's poorly balanced of course and it shouldn't be used to determine your skill as a player or make competitions. That doesn't make it a bad map. That's like saying coins are useless because you can't buy the most expensive products with them. They were just intended for something else.
Amazing metaphor. :D Though I would say it can very accurately illustrate that my skill as a player is not in the higher echelons. ;)
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Krogen
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Re: Main Factions Balance

Post by Krogen »

Sure, skill still counts on it a lot, it's just far easier to master than anything else. And it often creates situations where no matter what you do, you are almost certainly doomed or have a decisive advantage (without any RNG involvement).
"A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep." - Tywin Lannister
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radarsu
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Re: Main Factions Balance

Post by radarsu »

Don't you think that it is actually huge problem that Battle for Wesnoth is only balanced for medium sized maps, where you play 1v1 for 3 hours long (I still don't believe undeads are any good on such maps though) and that balance on much more popular smaller maps - Isar Cross - is totally devasted?

I believe balance on insanely large maps is also non-existant, but nobody cares about that because people don't wanna play 8h a single match. Yet, nobody cares about most played map - Isar Cross - either and that concerns me.

I'd love to have a balanced game of 2v2 that can be played in reasonable time - and by reasonable time I mean maximum 90 minutes (preferably about 30 minutes).
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Krogen
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Re: Main Factions Balance

Post by Krogen »

radarsu wrote: September 11th, 2022, 5:36 pm Don't you think that it is actually huge problem that Battle for Wesnoth is only balanced for medium sized maps, where you play 1v1 for 3 hours long (I still don't believe undeads are any good on such maps though) and that balance on much more popular smaller maps - Isar Cross - is totally devasted?

I believe balance on insanely large maps is also non-existant, but nobody cares about that because people don't wanna play 8h a single match. Yet, nobody cares about most played map - Isar Cross - either and that concerns me.

I'd love to have a balanced game of 2v2 that can be played in reasonable time - and by reasonable time I mean maximum 90 minutes (preferably about 30 minutes).
Well, Ladder Era was made by people who play 1v1, and balanced particularly for competitive 1v1 games. The same can be done for Isar's Cross, if there are players that are willing to invest their time. All they need to do is get together and do it. Nothing stopping them. If a decent enough Isar Era was made, im sure the people who make the bots would quickly adapt it for the "Casual Isar" autohosted games.
By the way, ever since the bots started to work, i don't think Isar is actually the most popular game anymore. That'd be Afterlife Rated, by far. Isar is dwarfed by it, there are 5-10 Afterlife games played for every 1 Isar. Part of the reason is that it needs only 2 players, but still. I don't think anybody could've foreseen how popular it got. And guess what, Default Era balance is terrible for it. That's why the bot-people started to implement changes to it that only apply to AR games. Like allowing Orcish Slayers to advance to level 3 and decreasing the xp requirement on Orcish Crossbowman. The same could be done with Isar.
"A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinions of the sheep." - Tywin Lannister
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