Scenario 9: The Valley of Death

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stavros27
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Re: Scenario 9: The Valley of Death

Post by stavros27 »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium, 1.14.3
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
9 - Very challenging. All I did was run with my main characters and still barely survived. No chance of killing 1 much less 3 liches...
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear.
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Scenario was interesting b/c it's different. Dialogue is decent.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
I had lots of gold (380) and a few level 3 mages and knights but could not make a dent in the undead. I had to run for it in the SE corner and spend most of my gold on elvish warriors to use as fodder.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3 - Running is not that much fun. Neither is trying to win a battle against impossible odds.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Make more holy water vials and closer to the start (or in the same area as the current ones. Have the undead take a damage penalty if they are outside of cave/castle at dawn of day 2 or maybe throughout the daylight of day 2 as well. This would play into the storyline as well as make it easier to win if you survive the initial onslaught.
LordWolfDan
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Re: Scenario 9: The Valley of Death

Post by LordWolfDan »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?

- 1.14.5, Beginner

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

- 6

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

- Simple, either destroy these three liches or try to survive for two days

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

- Interesting, though I'd add the line when any unit touches holy water

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

- Fighting undead at night with the attacks they're invulnerable

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

- 7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

- Maybe when any unit touches holy water phial, Konrad can ask: "Delfador/Kalenz, what is this peculiar phial laying down there?" And then either Delfador or Kalenz could explain it then
Andromenus
Posts: 8
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Re: Scenario 9: The Valley of Death

Post by Andromenus »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Medium

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
with very good units 6-7 (see my record), with weaker units it was harder

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
avoiding the confrontation with all undead opponents at the same time. As you can see, I moved my units out of the castle, if you stay in the castle at night, you will get heavy losts. Its also a good idea to neutralize an undead faction before the night is coming - I think the green one (in the east) is the easiest one.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7-8

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

The holy-water bottle - especially the bottle in the north-west at [5|23] of the map is a bit too far away and always a great risk for this unit, even for a Heavy Knight, I played this scenario several times - its a bit of an russian roulette. Because the chocobone is able too kill a health Heavy Knight in a single hit too - he is one of the most dangerous unit.

In this record I did have also lot of luck ... several times before I lost often a couple of good units.

No losts :), but some luck with the chocobone vs. my heavy knight here and my Leader Konrad was very very wounded.
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mxb2001
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Re: Scenario 9: The Valley of Death

Post by mxb2001 »

[quote="Content Feedback" post_id=46602 time=1097428267 user_id=123454]
(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
easy 1.12
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
7
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear choice
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
well sometimes the dialogue seems hokey, but it might be just what konrad says, which would fit his naivete...
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
figuring out the right strategy, took only 2 tries though, i am getting the hang of this game :) 1st I tried the obvious tactic of recalling all my best and manning the castle walls, plus 3 recruit scouts to grab villages and draw enemy forces away from leaders in castle. This failed utterly as the scouts drew only 1 wraith and also ended up getting the holy water which was not much help to those weaklings. The castle defense went badly as Kalenz tried to step into a safe wall hex (only 2 frontage) but ended up dieing! 2nd try with all the info now in my hands I went totally different! I sent Kal and Del each to pick up nearest holy water. Kal towards the forest one so he could use his 70% there along with his escort of archers and shaman recruits. Del towards mountain water since humans get best def outside cast/vill in mtns and he had escosrt of mage and thief recruits. I expected computer to split into 3 and attack each leader group (Kon had a castle full of fighter and mage and shaman recruits) but Kal only drew 1 Wraith which caught him unescorted but he was in forest and held out til more elves came and all nuked it. Kal then took his unmolested group to kill northern lich (error as Kon needed relief in castle) which they did as it came out to retake a ville. Del meanwhile drew 2 wraiths and a blood bat and his escort was partly caught in the open before reaching the mtn foothills. Took about 50% casualties but Del is a nuclear ICBM and cleaned house... In the centre though Kon and his recruits (aided by his leadership as he's level 2) took heavy losses which of course Kon replaced with more recruits. Drained all my gold though but in the end were able to wipe out attackers and go on the counter but time ran out.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10+
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Heh...
[/quote]
01/01/01
Sysae
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Joined: June 25th, 2018, 2:41 am

Re: Scenario 9: The Valley of Death

Post by Sysae »

(1)Difficulty Level: Hard 1.14.7
(2)8,This is not the first time I've played with this campaign, so I have some preparation.
(3)Clear
(4)Good
(5)This time I tried to have Konrad grab the holywater in the west immediately after the first camp of recall, and surprisingliy find the northen hordes of the undead chased after Konrad and was misled to the west side of the mountains. Their forces was delayed and they could only start attacking your castle in the dawn. Also I send my elvish heroes to the woods northeast to the castle. Mages only helped them to kill the wraiths and didn't bother with the zombies. Basically the eastern forces is blocked by the woods. The only forces that can arrive at the castle in the midnight come from the south, which were then killed by the mages and bandits and outlaws. I also managed to get a Merman Hoplite with the storm trident from previous senarios, and it turned out to be the bulkiest beast which absorbed tons of damage. The only fault I've made is to have paladins damaged too early, so they are almost dead and can only turtle back healing most of the time.
In the end I killed the eastern lich at turn 10 with an Archmage, Kalenz and an elvish sorceress. Killed the southern lich at turn 10 with an knight with holywater, and the loyal fugitive when it went out of his castle to attack me. Killed the northern lich at turn 11 with Konrad and two paladins. Those are some risky plays but I believed they can be made safe by some better micromanagements...
(6)10? I still remembered this lots of years after my first play)
(7)This scenario will be much harder without good preparation, e.g. not enough mages, no paladins. I think it would be better to have some other scenarios before that to induce a player to cultivate some more mages, like a less intensive battle with the undead.
Konrad2
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Re: Scenario 9: The Valley of Death

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.15.0, Champion (Challenging)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4 for surviving, 6 for defeating.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Deciding which Lich to take out first.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

6

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.
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Poison
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Re: Scenario 9: The Valley of Death

Post by Poison »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.14.7, Champion (Challenging), 371 gold.

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

10 till you decide to attack the southern lich, 8 otherwise.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Mehh.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Surviving.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

10, a tactical exercise. OHKOing the Lich is much fun!

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Nope.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

I've tried several options and only taking down the southern lich seemed viable (or go to the lake maybe).
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Zrevnur
Posts: 115
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Re: Scenario 9: The Valley of Death

Post by Zrevnur »

Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:11 pm (1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.14.9 Challenging (in Ironman mode), played several times
Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:11 pm (2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
Between 5 and 11, depending on preparation and strategy. This is one of the few scenarios which are very hard if not properly prepared and/or not following a good strategy. In the replay I had 403 gold.
Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:11 pm (3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Clear.
Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:11 pm (4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Ok. The holy water hint should be right in the beginning though as otherwise its kind of too late after the recruitment is already done.
Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:11 pm (5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Much of gameplay vs AI is 'divide and conquer'. Here (for the strategy I used) its critical to strike fast and hard against the southern Lich. Later the tactical gameplay vs the other two undead factions is more challenging than what is necessary in most other HttT scenarios. The 'Chocobones' being the biggest threat.
But note that my strategy may not be the best one. It may be better to strike at the northern Lich first by going west-north for example. If this works out then maybe one would not have to deal with the tactical difficulty described above.
Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:11 pm (6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
7. Its challenging so its higher than average but its also a bit too simple I think.
Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:11 pm (7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Give bonus objective for beating enemy leaders. It would be cool (and a somewhat interesting challenge) to have to beat all 3 Lichs for a reward. Lichs should get some bodyguards (of the only-move-if-woken-by-enemy kind) then maybe though.
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lifaen
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Joined: February 11th, 2020, 11:19 am

Re: Scenario 9: The Valley of Death

Post by lifaen »

Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:11 pm (1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
version 1.12.6, medium
Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:11 pm (2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10, if you try to defend your starting castle; more like a 3 once you figure out the flaw in the AI's behavior that you can exploit here if your main objective is to survive without losing a higher-level unit.
Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:11 pm (3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Pretty clear, it helps – and actually is vital to the strategy described below – to know what exactly the holy water does right at the beginning though, which allows you to recruit accordingly on turn 1.
Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:11 pm (4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Could be clearer: when Kalenz mentions the holy water after a few turns, he still doesn't explain what exactly it does. Not really that interesting in terms of storyline, but I guess that's not really the point of this scenario. However, walking into an obvious trap that blindly does make the main characters look way more stupid than they actually are (especially after having played Kalenz and Delfador in other campaigns) and therefore seems a bit unrealistic.
Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:11 pm (5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
If you try to defend the castle – or any other position near the center of the map – keeping the heroes alive. And the loyal mages. And pretty much everybody else.

A strategy to turn this into a pretty effortless win (without save/loading) and collect the early finish bonus:
(Note that this is more taking advantage of weird AI behavior than a sound strategy that would actually work against a thinking opponent.)
The goal is to sneak around the enemy armies and assassinate the three lichs simultaneously. When recruiting the 3 assassination teams, go for maximum firepower (taking the undead vulnerabilities to arcane, fire and impact into account), as you have to finish recruiting them on turn 1, which means 12 units in total plus Konrad, Kalenz and Delfador (and Moremirmu, the loyal white mage/mage of light if you have him).

My teams consisted of:
  • Team 1 (southwest): Delfador, a fugitive, a sorceress, a shyde, a paladin and an arch mage
  • Team 2 (southeast): Moremirmu, another mage of light, a sorceress, a red mage and a lancer with holy water
  • Team 3 (north): Konrad, Kalenz, a bandit, a sorceress and an elvish hero with holy water, who is quite effective with Konrad's leadership
Do not use Konrad to grab a nearby village, as he'll need all of his MP after he 's done recruiting in turn 2.

On turn 2, the teams that are going to take out the two southern lichs start moving south. There will be a corridor between the striking ranges of the 2 enemy armies that is unreachable for any enemy unit and will stay open just long enough to sneak even your slowest units (mages with 5MP) through if you recalled them to the southern hexes of the castle (use the "show all enemy moves function" to avoid mistakes). It will take you directly towards the bottle of holy water. The northern team sneaks up through the valley in the northwest. After everybody moves out, Konrad recruits a castle full of elvish fighters and 1-2 shamans whose job it is to survive in the castle as long as possible; after that he joins his strike team. Apparently this is enough of a diversion to draw almost the full strength of all 3 undead armies towards the castle, and the 3 assassination teams will face very little resistance in getting to the lichs. The two southern teams should separate about when they reach the bottle of holy water and head for their targets; by then, the armies will be far enough away from their leaders to not be able to help them – especially since they seem to take a turn or two to realize what you're up to.

The lichs will actually come out of their castles and attack you as soon as you put a unit with bad terrain defence (lancer/paladin/bandit) in their range, which means you don't even have to rely entirely on magic to kill them (they can't kill your bait unit in one turn, especially since this will happen at dawn or during the first day turn, and you should have enough firepower to kill them even without using the then likely heavily injured bait unit).

The north team should probably be a little heavier than what I recruited – this was the only one of the teams that came into real contact with the enemy, as a few of the wraiths in the northern undead army followed them across the mountains. This meant that they had to hold up and kill a few of them to avoid the death of the enchantress. As a result, they reached the lich one turn later than the other two teams, by which time there were other undead units in range and I ended up losing my bandit. This could have probably been avoided by pulling one unit off each of the two southern teams and sending them with the northern team as a rear-guard to keep the ghosts off the back of the actual attack team.

For the fight at the castle: the goal is to survive as long as possible, not trying to kill a significant number of undead (elvish fighters won't be able to do that), so on your turn, you should only attack targets that can't retaliate (especially the dark adepts, if they let you) and under no circumstances leave the high-defence-hexes of the castle and the adjacent village. Also, don't waste any higher-level healers here, as there's a not so small chance that everyone in the castle will die, no matter what you do.


While this does prove a point in that there is a strategy that allows you to achieve the early finish bonus (on medium – I've heard that the lichs recruit chocobones on challenging, which may foil this plan), I can see how some players may not regard this as the best way to play this scenario:
  • The early finish bonus is really not that much of a bonus: Playing this strategy is insanely expensive and in fact requires massive gold carryover from the last one (I started with 477 gold), you can't hold villages and you will finish only a few turns early (I killed the last lich on turn 9/12, though I believe it would have been possible on turn 8 with better playing). I ended up with a carryover of +4 for the next scenario.
  • The amount of XP you can gain with this strategy is very limited, as most or all of the units that do the majority of the fighting will not survive the scenario. Otherwise, you only get 3x24 XP for the lichs and maybe a few lvl-2 ghosts, that's it.
  • If you haven't played Isle of the damned to get here (meaning you have no outlaw units which generally have pretty decent impact attacks, and no loyal white mage to start the scenario) and don't prefer a magic-heavy fighting style like I do, you may actually find it hard at this point in the campaign to come up with enough units that are effective against undead to make this work without risking some of your important troops.
However, it does almost guarantee the survival of your most important units (loyal ones, advanced mages, ...) and the next scenario can be won pretty quickly for a nice early finish bonus even if you start with the minimum gold, so I still kind of like it.
Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:11 pm (6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
5, I don't like leaving a bunch of fresh recruits to defend a position on their own where they are certain to die, but since quite a few of your units are going to die in this scenario, no matter what you do, you might as well go ahead and kill those foul lichs. Also, I find it kind of incredible that they even ended up in this situation, starting the scenario surrounded by undead. I did appreciate the challenge, though.
Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:11 pm (7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I suppose this is meant to be one of the few scenarios in the HttT campaign that really require you to empty your gold reserves. This is not very effective, however, since it is pretty easy to win the next scenario with a large early finish bonus (You're walking around a map full of highly defensible terrain, while you have magical and marksman attacks and the enemy doesn't, and the enemy is also pretty low on resources), so if it weren't quite as easy to quickly rebuild your gold reserves after this, that might make the whole campaign a bit more challenging.
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Lord-Knightmare
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Re: Scenario 9: The Valley of Death

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

Content Feedback wrote: October 10th, 2004, 5:11 pm (1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
1. Normal/Wesnoth 1.15.12+dev
2. 7/10
3. crystal clear
4. 7/10
5. Arranging my formations and attack squads in a such way to avoid being overwhelmed, and later getting all enemy leaders killed.
6. 7/10
7. More enemy leader type variety? Make two a Death Knight, Draug, Ghast or a Banebow?
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drakearbiter
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Joined: October 21st, 2018, 9:37 pm

Re: Scenario 9: The Valley of Death

Post by drakearbiter »

My strategy was to use fresh mermen recruits around the moat as cannon fodder, while experienced mermen and mages provide the necessary firepower to gradually pick out the enemies one by one. I had a merman hoplite with lightning spear who could hold the line (for some reason a chocolate bones charged at my merman, lol) and also pick off the wraiths one by one. Also when the mermen die, I have the mages, Delfador and Kalenz waiting to pick at enemies one by one. It would look hopeless (like the attached screenshot), but then in the end, I survive (some luck needed) most of the times I play. I also had the opportunity to do a one shot kill a lich with a holy lance charge by a grand knight.
mermanhoplite-trident.png
(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
Hard, 1.12 & 1.14
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
8
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Very clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Clear, but not particularly interesting
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Keeping valuable units alive - a bad run of luck could make you lose them. I lost a white mage.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. Quite fun as a desperate castle defense is what I like.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Already fun enough.
mal_shubertal
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Re: Scenario 9: The Valley of Death

Post by mal_shubertal »

(1) What difficulty level and version of Wesnoth have you played the scenario on?
1.16.2 Hard
(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
4 to just survive, 9 to kill all 3 liches
(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
clear
(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
clear. Kinda random that this ridiculously huge undead horde was just hanging out here so close to the center of Wesnoth and it wasn't everyone's top priority. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the population density of this country, though.
(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Trying to kill all the liches within the time limit without risking all my high level units.
(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
10. I like it a lot. It's very open-ended, offers lots of different tactical options, lots of different ways to use the terrain to your advantage. The large map and variety of enemy unit types also make you think harder about the terrain, e.g., depending on where you send your forces, the spectres, chocobones, zombies, and skeletons will all hit you at different times due to their different movement rates. The holy water vials are also in spaces that are close enough to be practical, but far enough away that you have to work for them.
(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
I think a better prize for killing the liches would be great. As is, even with my best and riskiest plays, I can only kill them all on turn 10. And by that time, the early finish bonus is basically nothing, so there's really no point of playing so aggressively with my precious lvl 3 units. I think this scenario has the potential to offer great replay value, with the basic victory condition letting beginners get past it without too much frustration, and killing all 3 liches being an extra challenge for more experienced players. But as it is, there is basically no prize for killing all 3 liches other than bragging rights, so it feels anticlimactic. Even if it's just an extra loyal unit like how you got Simyr in the second scenario, like maybe the liches have a pet bat that you can adopt after taking them out, or there's some unit that they had imprisoned in a dungeon that you then set free, etc. The imprisoned unit could be something really unexpected like a dwarf, drake, saurian, etc.
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markd81
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Re: Scenario 9: The Valley of Death

Post by markd81 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.16.5, Champion (Challenging)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

7 for killing the three liches. I guess staying in the keep would've been suicidal so getting out and kill them was the best option.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Timing was key in this scenario. The fighters put up a good fight to protect the main army. I managed to level up some units. Getting the knights to kill the liches was also a nice challenge.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

10

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Nothing.
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