Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - now on GitHub!

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Hejnewar
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!

Post by Hejnewar »

Will there be a version for 1.15/1.16?
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!

Post by inferno8 »

Yes :)
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!

Post by Hejnewar »

inferno8 wrote: March 2nd, 2020, 5:19 pmYes :)
Glad to hear but...

Will it be playable this time? I mean currently it's mostly ability reading simulator for new and "find better thing simulator" for old players (not like there are any players at this point).

To not only complain I will say that I can help, I don't have that much time but I am confident in my current abilities and tools as long as I dont have to deal with units with 6 abilities and 5 specials that is but it's understandable that you might not have time for that tho.
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!

Post by Rafiz »

I think Swedish ships are plain broken... It's not just complaining, I understand Sweden was naval power at the time, but their ships are not balanced. Swedish ship III cost 60 gold, highest attack deals up to about ~70(?) damage (and also with slow, which is very strong ability!) vs Polish ship III costing 50 gold and dealing up to 40(?) damage with top attack. I'm not going to even mention higher hp, more options of attacks and muskets to kill everything by going ham on land, but this "top" attack alone should make them 3* more expensive than polish ship III. If you want Swedish to be naval power, make it cost 100. It will be only "strong" at that cost (and I believe it will easily beat 2 ships for 50 gold even when fighting them both at once) in current state with current cost - it is brutally OP.

7hp, 4 attack unit isn't just 2 times stonger than 4hp, 2 attack unit. It's about 4* stronger. - here 80hp, 6*15a (+s) isn't just 20-30% stronger than 70hp 5*10a. I would say it's about ~120-150% stronger (if not more) - so I argue 100% higher price still wouldn't make it bad choice. I would go for 100g ship IIIs if I was sweden.

In my mod I decrease damage by ~30-40% when I add slow ability, here strongest attack come together with slow ability...

Perhaps it's strongly not recommended to play with higher lvl ships unlocked, but no option should be game breaking and this option is game breaking.

Regalskeppet for 80 gold... Isn't even worth of talking.... It should cost a minimum of 200g.
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!

Post by inferno8 »

Eastern Europe at War 2.2 is now available!

The major addition this time is the raw translation file, so it is finally possible to translate the add-on to different languages.

For translators: to start translating, download the add-on and navigate to <add-ons folder>\translations where you will find the previously mentioned raw translation file. You can use software like PoEdit to do the job easily. Once the translation is ready you can contact us developers here in this topic or via PM. :eng:

The new version is available for both BfW 1.14 and 1.15. Enjoy! :)

@Hejnewar: we understand that EEaW gameplay mechanics are quite different from what people would expect coming from the vanilla game, but we did that on purpose. Nevertheless I partially agree to some statements claiming EEaW abilities and weapon specials can be overwhelming at times. That's why I am thinking about implementing a Lite version of the add-on for those who prefer simplicity. I haven't discussed this with other developers yet, but in my opinion it would be a nice addition especially for casual players, while more demanding or hardcore ones would stick with the original.

@Rafiz: we discussed your suggestions but we haven't reached an agreement yet so no changes at the moment. It would be great if other players commented your observations.

EEaW needs more feedback! We need your opinion about the add-on, really. The more people are involved in balancing it, the better the add-on can become in the future. Give us examples of what needs to be improved and why. Constructive criticism is always welcome. We may not respond straight away, but we do note all your findings and suggestions :)
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.2 for 1.15! We need feedback

Post by Kowalski88 »

Hello.

Thanks a bunch for the mod, I've played a couple of games online and it's really entertaining. I have one question, though. How well is it balanced for multiplayer? Is it good to go or are some factions just better than others with no way around it? Let's say, Prussians seem to be absolutely devastating with their huge list of abilities and movement points.

Also, I've encountered a serious bug with the Sapper model. It seems to disappear entirely from the map for some reason. The unit can still be chosen and functions as normal, but it's just completely invisible; the model appears again after you move the unit and then vanishes the next turn. I think it happens on the second turn after he moves, so maybe it has something to do with the fortify ability; on the other hand, it doesn't seem to happen all of the time and I wasn't able to replicate it, so maybe it has something to do with the terrain. Is there a way to fix it on my own?
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.2 for 1.15! We need feedback

Post by Sagez »

Hello,

thanks for messaging us. We're glad that EEaW is still being played. It sure is entertaining!

Multiplayer is decent*. EEaW actually had several tournaments (at least 3) and games were all very fun; however, when it comes to balance it's tricky. Like, some factions can recruit level 0 units and just wait untill they will gather a large army this way, if the game isn't dynamic enough. Another thing is that the development got halted before we could introduce some changes, like giving winged hussars alternative attack without ''no counter'' or giving shooters ability to safely inflict small damage with ''no counter ability'' (far shot), etc, etc. EEaW was always experimental and some people disliked that, but hell yeah it's good...

* if you're pr0 you'll hate me :')

I'll ask my tech-friend about the Sapper issue, thanks for reporting, I honestly have no idea. Prussians were never thoroughly tested as our numbers dwindled into dust. ''Fortify'' ability is probably totally broken. Still, it was good to try.

If you can try playing EEaW with a friend, it's the best experience, very different to default Wesnoth.
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.2 for 1.15! We need feedback

Post by Kowalski88 »

Thanks for the detailed reply! After a couple of games, I've noticed there's much more depth and variety to the mod than the Default Era has to offer in terms of factions and their units. I imagine it tripled the work for testers and made the balancing in general a harder job compared to half a dozen units in the original game that are much less complicated mechanics-wise.

Still, the mod's really fun to play, I can give you that, especially for a clueless Wesnoth player. And one session ends up being much more eventful and unpredictable than half a dozen Default ones, it does feel very different and very intense. So thanks again for all the hard work and love put in the mod! The sprites are amazing, the vibe of the defensive infantry warfare is really well-done, the cannons and ships add quite some depth to the tactics too. I just love it.

As for the sapper issue, I've noticed that cannons change their models when they're fortified. So maybe it's just a sprite missing for the sapper's fortify ability or something. Not sure if it's supposed to have one, but just thought I'd mention it.

And one more thing: Chaika model disappears from the map too when the ship takes either offensive or defensive action. Perhaps it's true for the advanced version too. And the same goes for one of the Tatar infantry models, I forgot which one, either scout or diver. Maybe it's something on my part, like a resolution-related bug or something, but I'll leave the report here just in case.
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.2 for 1.15! We need feedback

Post by Bilbo_Sacket »

This is pretty much my favorite add-on ever, and I am glad you decided to make it thankyou very much.
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.2.1 for 1.15! We need feedback

Post by inferno8 »

Eastern Europe at War 2.2.1 is out!*
*only for BfW 1.15.x (1.16)

I fixed incorrect image paths for some animations. Chaikas, Tatar Divers and Prussian Sappers should have no issues with visibility now. Also the stun animation is displayed correctly too. The code has been updated to 1.16 standards. There is no support for older versions of BfW.
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.2 for 1.15! We need feedback

Post by Bilbo_Sacket »

So, I saw that you have winged Hussars, I really like that, However I think that you are leaving out the most famous soldiers of this period. So as you know, at this time, it was about the first time in history when infantry became more important than heavy cavalry. This being a result of the percentage of pikes and firearms in the ranks. However I think that Pikes are extremely underpowered. They should have a much more solid role in this period of history. Most of you remember the ventures of Alexander the great. His Phalanx armed with 18 foot long pikes, (allegedly 3 feet shorter than those in the late 15th century, early 16th century). He was practically undefeatable. But not just because of his strategic genius, the length of the pikes in use was such that no enemy had a weapon that had its reach, and it is far better than arrows, because it can keep enemies at a distance. In any case it was the most effective infantry weapon ever since Robert the Bruce destroyed Britain's force of Knights at Bannockburn. They were capable of defeating any infantry force wielding melee. However if Pike men exchange against the same, then the result is nothing less than a massacre on both sides, and it is pretty much luck if you survive. And they were the absolute bane to cavalry. Which in turn were the absolute bane to firearms in melee. (That of course is the reason that pikes were used in the first place is to protect firearms from cavalry charges).

Now that I have established the use for Pikes in combat, let's talk about that famous unit at the beginning. They are most famous for using great swords, though in my opinion they should be famous for their use of pikes and halberds. This unit is called a Landsknecht, definitely the most famous soldiers of the day, as well as the best payed mercenaries of the day. And there is no way these units should be left out.

Now let me explain about great swords. In a great deal of media and pop culture, than these weapons are portrayed in the hands of some might medieval hero, but in real life these weapons only came into use at the late 15th century early 16th century. But more background on that. The earliest swords were one handed swords combined with a shield. This was a result of the low quality of armor as well as its low coverage, meaning that in the long run its just cheaper to use a shield and sword. That does not mean they were not capable of making longer swords, but the truth is that they did not have good enough steel for that and they knew it. But all of this changed with higher quality steel developed in and around the 14th century, was when the quality of steel was high enough that they were able to make longswords, that would bend instead of breaking but more truthfully it was because they developed full plate, which allowed one to be well protected against enemies, you have a shield protecting your entire body at once, so you can take risks. so a two handed sword the longsword was developed as you no longer needed a hand to hold your shield and now you can have more power and reach when striking. However firearms made armor obsolete, so now you wonder why they went even more extreem developing even larger two handed swords.

Well, the answer is in pikes, you see whenever a Pike block met another then a massacre would ensue, both sides losing enormous casualties something needed to change. So they armored men with breastplates and Great swords, and gave them hazard pay, and appointing them shock troops, who were then mixed into the front lines of a pike block (10*10 (height and width of a regular pike block)).

Now let us explore what a shock troop really is. Well you might already know that but I am just going to clarify. the purpose of shock troops is to break up the enemy formation (extremely important in a pike block, where if they do not have perfect discipline then pike get tangled and soldiers will get in each other's way due to the tightness of their formation). Now this can be carried out in a number of ways, you can lower enemy moral and hopefully create deserters who will easily be stabbed in the back. Or you can just yell so loud that orders cannot be heard and thus cohesion is lost.

Now, for the tactics used by the Landsknecht, at least when they are using great swords. parry or take first blow, hopefully letting it glance off of breastplate, get past the first pike, they would now try one of two things first they could try to lock as many enemy pikes as possible so they are not hurting your troops but hopefully so that your troops are getting more kills than the enemy, or they could lock the next line of threatening pikes and move in to start taking out swaths of relatively unarmed men. Of course this tactic does not always work, because if the enemy has great swords too than a melee will ensue and the group that comes off triumphant will begin to trash the enemy pike square.

So now you know, pikes are terribly underpowered in melee, against infantry as well as cavalry, and great swords are the bane to pike men. If you have any questions about my narrative please tell me, I do not want someone to misunderstand my words and as a result recieve misinformation. But I really look forward to seeing the German mercenary Landsknechts in the game.
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.2 for 1.15! We need feedback

Post by shevegen »

It's a fun idea. Personally I much prefer a fantasy/magic theme but it is good that other folks are exploring
other ideas. Anyone remembers Fantasy General or similar strategy games in the 1990s? So cool to see
folks trying their luck at that.

In regards to Bilbo_Sacket's comment:

> So now you know, pikes are terribly underpowered in melee, against infantry as well as cavalry, and
> great swords are the bane to pike men.

Well, we have to distinguish between reality and a game. In ~medieval days pikes and halberds were
really epic. Formation often was a key to win in a battle. Even in 1:1 a halberd is quite amazing.
Also on youtube. :D (I much prefer sword fighting like samurai, but that the halberd is super
efficient can not be denied when you watch some of those youtube videos!)

For a game, I think it is a bit harder to simulate. Usually wesnoth focused on one unit (like a swords
fighter). There were suggestions to "stack" units, which was interesting but may complicate the gameplay
too (like ... 3 knights ... what if you lose 2 horses ... how do they fight then ... surely not as strong
as 3 knights on 3 healthy horses).

Swords would have to go in close against pike/halberds and often the row behind the first one made
sure that this was difficult. I watched some of the history lessons on youtube, e. g. how the
Landsknechte (in particular the one from swiss) would apply the death penalty. I think this led to
some coined word like "running the gauntlet" ... I think it originated from back then. I always
thought it had to do with a gauntlet ... but it was that punishment where you got jabbed from
the sides by a pike (or halberd... but usually a pike).
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.2 for 1.15! We need feedback

Post by Bilbo_Sacket »

Thanks for your feedback, I think the answer is very simple.
You just give them abilities, ex. pikes outreach spears, so they get to have a first strike on spears. and anything else they outreach. However they would be vulnerable to archers, which can be remedied by filtering enemy attacks by range, so when ranged-pierce is used their resistance is compromised and they have higher casualties.
As for the Greatswordsman, you simply use him as a shock troop. give them a "Shock Troop" ability, which of course you would have to design yourself as I do not believe there are any fitting my specifications. Which are, a 50% chance of bypassing first strike. Or possibly a better solution is to do that, and if the filter evaluates true than the greatswordsman's pierce resistance is enhanced for the duration of the fight.
Though it should be noted that greatswordsmen were a minority of an army, they were the reserves in case pike on pike fighting was necessary. That is not to say that greatswords were not good for anything else. They are very effective when outnumber and facing many foes. They are simply not as effective in such a situation as other soldiers in the army.
Even if nothing else is included of what I have talked about, I think that the Landsknechts should not be left out as they are, next to the winged Hussars, the most famous military force of the day.
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.2 for 1.15! We need feedback

Post by Kowalski88 »

Just in case you get to updating the mod some day, Great Chaika seems to have issues with art pathways the same way a couple of units had before. Namely, it disappears when it gets attacked, either all of the time (didn't have a chance to test it) or at least when it's stationed in a town. In my case, it was a swamp town.
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - now on GitHub!

Post by inferno8 »

Eastern Europe at War 3.0 has been released!
eeaw-repository2.jpg

The source code of the add-on is finally available on GitHub!
You can find it here:
https://github.com/inferno8/wesnoth-Eas ... ope_at_War

This marks a new chapter in EEaW development. The add-on has been restructured for 3.0, with all files and folders translated to English, to make it more accessible for modders. Now everybody can easily contribute to the project, create pull requests, review code, and make EEaW better!

What is EEaW?
Eastern Europe at War is one of the most unique and popular MP eras for BfW 1.16. It's been in development since 2009.

What makes EEaW so special?
It is a purely historical add-on (set in XVII century) with no fantasy in it. It offers more than 230 units with custom art, 8 states/factions from the past each with their own tactics and unique playstyle, many new abilities, and custom mechanics like battle cannons and naval combat.

Who's in charge here?
I am the current maintainer and art director of the add-on and Sagez is project lead at the moment. EEaW has been designed by a group of people from the Polish BfW fansite. You can find all the names in CREDITS.txt.

What do you need help with?
We are looking for a second maintainer and a person with a good knowledge of WML and coding conventions to help us improve and optimize the add-on's code. We also need help with balancing the era. We are also interested in art contributions like unit sprite improvements and animations.

Are there any campaigns available?
No. At the moment there is only the MP era, but we'd love to have a few SP campaigns set in XVII century. If you are passionate about history of middle-eastern Europe and want to help us design some campaigns, please drop us a line!

Full changelog:

Code: Select all

## Version 3.0
 ### Structure
	* translated all folders and file names to English
	* renamed all unit files to match unit names
	* improved CREDITS.txt
	* added ART_LICENSE
 ### Code
	* translated all unit ids to English
	* translated all attack names to English
	* added eeaw_ prefix to all weapon specials and abilities
	* replaced 100 with {UNREACHABLE} in [movement_cost] for all units
	* fixed incorrect image path in Great_Chaika.cfg
	* project-wide code cleanup
 ### Descriptions
	* improved scenario descriptions
	* improved option descriptions
	* fixed typos
 ### Graphics
	* added longrange_attack.png
 ### Translations
	* updated the raw translation file
	* updated the Polish translation
 ### Other
	* began to keep a changelog
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