Pick Your Recruits - Armageddon

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Hejnewar
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Pick Your Recruits - Armageddon

Post by Hejnewar »

With porting of mainline content finished, comes time to look at the true armageddon, add-on units, so I wanted to ask the community, what units would you like to see in PYRA, and what is the reason for proposing these exact units. Does it bring new mechanics? Unusual resistances, defences or movement costs? Does it look so great that you just want to see it? (In that case proposals of mechanics that will make these great sprites interesting are welcome.) Go wild and show me some creativity! And who knows if the quality is there it might just appear one day in PYRA. :P

Also if you want to leave some feedback this is a good place for this, so feel free to show me what you like and what you don't like. It will most likely help me with making it even better in the future. ;)

General overview of differences with current and past PYRA:
Spoiler:
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IPS
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Re: Pick Your Recruits - Armageddon

Post by IPS »

Wow Pyra development is back!! long ago in 1.14 and 1.12 I uesd to be a casual player of that era, I still rememer when skeleton was like 17-18g because they used to rock if opponent didn't have something to counter them lmao.

I also played with a friend Pyra tonight .... and I can say by far, it needs a lot of balancing development and help, if you're interested I can help you at balancing.

But to mention something, these 16g scorpions, even if traitless, ridiculize any default scout (4-4 impact and 9-1 pierce melee with poison) doesn't look much, but if you think it, it allows player to have a notable map control with almost no handicaps ... good resistances and 60% defense in villages what :lol: :lol: :lol: there are no reasons to pick wolf rider or elvish scout with such things costing so few 16 golds...

Btw, I'm yet not familiarized with the new quenoth units, but the riders are somewhat inexpensive for their bulkyness , they should be costing 1g or 2g more, basically it's no need having access to 60% defenses with these so nice resistances and high mounts of health (not mentioning that if dexterous they can 9-3 ranged , which is STRONG in daytime).

I remembered a lot of units that aren't here actually... I would preffer viewing most of these odd-weird units which made the era characteristic before start viewing new units that used to not be in previous Pyra add-ons. Except maybe, some reworked core units which can be implemented .... weird why I didn't find lv0 mudcrawlers but just lv1 instead ...

Also, there will be a kind of relation with previous Horus2 balancing?
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Hejnewar
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Re: Pick Your Recruits - Armageddon

Post by Hejnewar »

Wow Pyra development is back!!
It is for few months already, I just never bothered to make a thread. Also only now it got to the porting of armageddon stage.
I still rememer when skeleton was like 17-18g because they used to rock if opponent didn't have something to counter them lmao.
And everyone complained about them being too expensive and not providing real alternative for daog.
But to mention something, these 16g scorpions, even if traitless, ridiculize any default scout (4-4 impact and 9-1 pierce melee with poison) doesn't look much, but if you think it, it allows player to have a notable map control with almost no handicaps ... good resistances and 60% defense in villages what :lol: :lol: :lol: there are no reasons to pick wolf rider or elvish scout with such things costing so few 16 golds...
Weird, during the last 2 months scorpion was really not very popular, it was picked but not to the level of overshadowing other units, I saw most scouts used, perhaps one that was used the most was Boar not Scorpion, also players often prefer Scorpling over Scorpion so thats another competitor. Worth mentioning is that these players weren't just random, they were mostly pretty good players because only they really knew or were interested that PYRA is out. Perhaps closer look would be nice but even if I think that it might be a little too strong it is not at all to the degree that you seem to be thinking it is.
Btw, I'm yet not familiarized with the new quenoth units, but the riders are somewhat inexpensive for their bulkyness , they should be costing 1g or 2g more, basically it's no need having access to 60% defenses with these so nice resistances and high mounts of health (not mentioning that if dexterous they can 9-3 ranged , which is STRONG in daytime).
But... they don't have access to 60% defences anywhere. Clashers have more hp, have bigger problem with strong (9-4 day) and are more likely to hit traits they want, yet all I got for them is that it would be nice to have more variety in cold damage type in PYRA. I'm way more surprised that Mystic wasn't mentioned.
I remembered a lot of units that aren't here actually... I would preffer viewing most of these odd-weird units which made the era characteristic before start viewing new units that used to not be in previous Pyra add-ons. Except maybe, some reworked core units which can be implemented ....
You can propose them again, but the general consensus was that it is much better to start with a clean sheet rather than trying to just copy what already was, thus this thread was made.
weird why I didn't find lv0 mudcrawlers but just lv1 instead ...
Ye I will fix that. Thanks for letting me know.
Also, there will be a kind of relation with previous Horus2 balancing?
The closest there is, is talking with Krogen sometimes about PYRA and sometimes looking at what has been done if someone mentions it. Some of them are alright.
I also played with a friend Pyra tonight .... and I can say by far, it needs a lot of balancing development and help, if you're interested I can help you at balancing.
Honestly.. Saying that after playing 2 games with just one person really does not paint good picture, especially when it comes to balancers who rely on playing the game and feel of it to balance, which you seem to do quiet a lot. It is quiet hastly, and is one of the sins of people who try to balance eras in my opinion. You can say that I don't even play this game and that would be true, but at the same time I simply not at all rely on playing to balance, I would even say that it might be detremental to me because I could get biases which I try to avoid (with exception of Heavy Infrantry it's trash beyond belief and arguably thats not even a bias).

If I sound too cold than thats because it 2am here but I still wanted to respond.
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Re: Pick Your Recruits - Armageddon

Post by IPS »

Well, about skeleton basis, Horus2 designed things in other way and there was a different meta which explained why they were that expensive, the few times I used them againist him I had blatant good ressults, but as said, balancing in Horus2 WOTG was a way different as of now.

About the units, I will be checking the old Pyra will mention about units like dusk devil and some weird lv0 with unique balance that were abundant in PYRA back in these days.

And personally, I think that balancing is an important aspect of the game, also you're free to review that in certain momments , but better balance attracts more players. After some time consider reviewing global balancing but you can delegate that to a frequent player of the era.
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Re: Pick Your Recruits - Armageddon

Post by Hejnewar »

IPS wrote: July 8th, 2022, 8:16 pm About the units, I will be checking the old Pyra will mention about units like dusk devil and some weird lv0 with unique balance that were abundant in PYRA back in these days.
Thanks.
And personally, I think that balancing is an important aspect of the game, also you're free to review that in certain momments , but better balance attracts more players.
Maybe in the past but not right now, there is no enough players to sustain anything in the longrun that is not "wesnoth mainstream" or with long history. No amout of balance will change that, yet balance is fun to do so I do it anyway.
After some time consider reviewing global balancing but you can delegate that to a frequent player of the era.
I have not enough trust in anyone to not double check something, there are players with opinions that matter in my eyes but I would never just agree without looking. Still Im just a human and sometimes I make mistakes (fortunatley thus far PYRA only had one such glaring maistake and I would say that it was an oversight if not for the fact that I balanced it for mainline in the first place :lol: for curious it was the boar fixed day one) and then pointing that out can be nice and if one person points few things or proposes reasonable changes then it will obviously gain in my eyes.
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Re: Pick Your Recruits - Armageddon

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

Hello,

A lot of the MP scenarios packaged with PYRA are showing deprecated terrain Uf in the maps and should be updated.
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Re: Pick Your Recruits - Armageddon

Post by IPS »

Btw, after you add some units from old PYRA, you can mind in adding some units from Rashy Era to your version of PYRA, they're very defaulitsh inspired and quite one of best recents eras that is still loyal to default gameplay.

Still, on there there is a lot of underpowereds which will need of a revision before adding.
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Re: Pick Your Recruits - Armageddon

Post by Hejnewar »

After long period of silence, I'm back,

To sum up the events of that time, I have contacted Horus and it was decided that the best course of action instead of porting is renaming PYRA and with this, it becoming its own thing, spiritual successor to PYRA.

Additionally during that time pretty much almost everything has been rewritten and many things were added when it comes to both units and modes existing in UR. But everything will be revealed as time goes on.
Lord-Knightmare wrote: August 10th, 2022, 6:52 am A lot of the MP scenarios packaged with PYRA are showing deprecated terrain Uf in the maps and should be updated.
Maps will be most likely removed and placed in a separate map pack. No idea if I will have time to fix them.
IPS wrote: August 10th, 2022, 8:09 pm Btw, after you add some units from old PYRA, you can mind in adding some units from Rashy Era to your version of PYRA, they're very defaulitsh inspired and quite one of best recents eras that is still loyal to default gameplay.

Still, on there there is a lot of underpowereds which will need of a revision before adding.
I did take a look thru the era and few of the units could be of interest, the art is nice and some of them alter the game enough, but I want to correct one thing, I'm actually not pursuing default or even have it as inspiration, what I am pursuing are units that offer nice choices, create new roles within the era and create more dynamic gameplay. Best testament for that are probably original units, especially leaders who unlike traditional leaders at least try to have incentive to be active on the battlefield.
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Re: Pick Your Recruits - Armageddon

Post by IPS »

Hejnewar wrote: August 15th, 2022, 10:42 pm I did take a look thru the era and few of the units could be of interest, the art is nice and some of them alter the game enough, but I want to correct one thing, I'm actually not pursuing default or even have it as inspiration, what I am pursuing are units that offer nice choices, create new roles within the era and create more dynamic gameplay. Best testament for that are probably original units, especially leaders who unlike traditional leaders at least try to have incentive to be active on the battlefield.
Okay, now I get better your point.

There are few cases from an Era that is named Milenium Era that are quite interesting to check. Well, even if unit data is from Ageless, units come from Milenium Era originally.

Thelian Spirt
and
Sylvian Keeper

Second one is quite interesting because of being fighter with extreme healing powers for lv1 and being melee fighter.

About exotic roles , you can view Ageless Era - Deep Elves, units with tons of specials, huge mobility but low HP and low terrain defenses.
Still, need to review the era to have a more clear of what are you looking for exactly.
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Re: Pick Your Recruits - Armageddon

Post by Hejnewar »

From now PYRA is no longer available, instead it was replaced with Ultimate Recruits. I will create feedback topic for them later.

Also I will surely take a look at the Deep Elves.
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