Winds of Fate

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Elvish_Hunter
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Re: Winds of Fate 3.x.x (Drake Campaign for BfW 1.16)

Post by Elvish_Hunter »

name wrote: May 1st, 2022, 6:05 am
Lord-Knightmare wrote: May 1st, 2022, 12:19 am Might I suggest renaming the unit to "Bladewing"? Rather straightforward but that's what this unit is...a bird that throws bladed feathers.
Seems like an okay name, but it looks like now a redundant unit with the name "Razorbird" may be added to core. :hmm:
About that PR, it isn't decided yet what units will actually end up in core. Besides, Razorbirds are supposed to be elementals (immune to poison, plague and drain) and Stymphalian are alive monsters, so they aren't as redundant as they may look.
Note to myself:
Current maintainer of these add-ons, all on 1.16:
The Sojournings of Grog, Children of Dragons, A Rough Life, Wesnoth Lua Pack, The White Troll (co-author)
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Antro
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Re: Winds of Fate 3.x.x (Drake Campaign for BfW 1.16)

Post by Antro »

name wrote: May 1st, 2022, 6:05 am
Antro wrote: April 30th, 2022, 5:16 pm I started to approach the italian translation of this new campaign and notice something worth to report
Unfortunately, I am actually working on an update for this campaign that will change a number of the strings, and I have not yet added most of the translation hints. Are you sure you want to begin translating it at this early stage? Some of your hard work may get overwritten as the campaign evolves a bit further inside the unstable master branch.
Usually, I'll focus my work on the stable branch. Since actually italian stable branch is 100% translated, I would dedicate my "wesnoth time" to work on develop branch, and since this is brand new campaign, it is worth spend some time to taste the mood and translate at least some basic strings: units, objective,

I found really interesting the data/campaigns/Winds_of_Fate/Story/Morogor_Dialect.txt file : I can imagine that the Dictionary paragraph will be added to the "help" section, or similar. The Grammar part is a must for a translator and for any content creator that uses drakes: please spread the word around...
name wrote: May 1st, 2022, 6:05 am By the way, what is your impression of the campaign's writing style so far? Is it easy enough to understand what the drake characters are saying or is it overly challenging?
I'm still playing the first scenario, not yet collected all the prays to become aspirant... The language is quite different from the other campaigns, and for sure it requires a deeper attention to the dialogues. I mean: as prose is quite ... "fluid" in all other campaigns, in WoF I need to read the sentences 2 or 3 time to fully "understand" the interaction and intentions. Translating all this will be an interesting challenge...

Definitively, not a novice campaign, both for the drakes to play and for the used language. In other games context, probably they'll "lock" the campaing and make it playable only after gain game experience.

I like the general idea and the first impression is quite good.
name wrote: May 1st, 2022, 6:05 am
Antro wrote: April 30th, 2022, 7:29 pm I can live with that. It is just a little bit annoying the idea that someone could take this information for granted... What about adding something that "suggest" the misclassification? Maybe dashes ( air-breathing-fish )? Or quotation marks ?
Maybe I can add something about how they are also the only fish known to produce milk. ;)
Or something referred to the mage academy that are still discussing what these "odd and rare fishes" really are. However, since today there are people who believe that dolphins are fishes, the idea to call them "fish" in game is more than acceptable. Do you want to discuss with and orc if his exquisite meal is fish or meat ? :D
name wrote: May 1st, 2022, 6:05 am
Lord-Knightmare wrote: May 1st, 2022, 12:19 am Might I suggest renaming the unit to "Bladewing"? Rather straightforward but that's what this unit is...a bird that throws bladed feathers.
Seems like an okay name, but it looks like now a redundant unit with the name "Razorbird" may be added to core. :hmm:
We could also add the "bird" to the name, or use "STYMPHALIDES", or maybe "Areioi".
"ORNITHES AREIOI", birds of Ares, usually identified with the Stymplidian birds
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Re: Winds of Fate 3.x.x (Drake Campaign for BfW 1.16)

Post by egallager »

Antro wrote: May 1st, 2022, 9:57 am I found really interesting the data/campaigns/Winds_of_Fate/Story/Morogor_Dialect.txt file : I can imagine that the Dictionary paragraph will be added to the "help" section, or similar. The Grammar part is a must for a translator and for any content creator that uses drakes: please spread the word around...
Reminder to myself to take a look at this for the process of porting FtF to the BfW 1.16 add-on server...
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Re: Winds of Fate 3.x.x (Drake Campaign for BfW 1.16)

Post by name »

Elvish_Hunter wrote: May 1st, 2022, 9:14 am About that PR, it isn't decided yet what units will actually end up in core. Besides, Razorbirds are supposed to be elementals (immune to poison, plague and drain) and Stymphalian are alive monsters, so they aren't as redundant as they may look.
We had a Crocodile unit in this campaign before the Swamp Lizard was added to 1.15, and ultimately the latter replaced the former, even though there were some significant differences between the two. So probably they will want to merge these units together also, to minimize player confusion and artist workload.

Speaking of elementals, have you looked at the air, water and fire elementals in Era of Magic and Reign of Heroes? They have some really quality sprite work in places. I am thinking about adding one or two of them to WoF (assuming the artist(s) does not mind).
Antro wrote: May 1st, 2022, 9:57 am The language is quite different from the other campaigns, and for sure it requires a deeper attention to the dialogues. I mean: as prose is quite ... "fluid" in all other campaigns, in WoF I need to read the sentences 2 or 3 time to fully "understand" the interaction and intentions. Translating all this will be an interesting challenge...
Thanks, I will keep this in mind, since one of the things I want to do with the next version is simplify the drake language some more.
Antro wrote: April 30th, 2022, 7:29 pm We could also add the "bird" to the name, or use "STYMPHALIDES", or maybe "Areioi".
"ORNITHES AREIOI", birds of Ares, usually identified with the Stymplidian birds
I would not personally mind using such an authentic hellenistic name for them; I did something similar with another unit (the Karakoa), but it turned out there is a policy not to use foreign words beyond those already "loaned" into the English language, since they are harder to translate (for people outside of the region such words are native to).

So people from the far east might struggle to translate "Areioi" from Greek just as people from the far west might struggle to translate "Karakoa" from Tagalog.
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revolting_peasant
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Re: Winds of Fate 3.x.x (Drake Campaign for BfW 1.16)

Post by revolting_peasant »

I'm playing the version that's in Wesnoth 1.17.3. We are promised "loyal intendants" at the Contention scenario, but - so far, I have never gotten either a Clasher caste or a Fighter caste intendant... I've played until the beginning of Harvest. Either it's a bug or I've misunderstood what I read. (And - yes, I do have relevant units...)
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Re: Winds of Fate 3.x.x (Drake Campaign for BfW 1.16)

Post by name »

revolting_peasant wrote: May 14th, 2022, 10:10 pm We are promised "loyal intendants" at the Contention scenario, but - so far, I have never gotten either a Clasher caste or a Fighter caste intendant... I've played until the beginning of Harvest.
Your loyal intendants should be available for you in your recall list... but I guess it would be more clear if they were auto-recalled each scenario for you. :hmm: I will have to look into implementing that.
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Re: Winds of Fate 3.x.x (Drake Campaign for BfW 1.16)

Post by revolting_peasant »

@name: No loyal units are available in the recon list, and no loyal units get recalled (the heroes do get recalled).
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Re: Winds of Fate 3.x.x (Drake Campaign for BfW 1.16)

Post by name »

revolting_peasant wrote: May 18th, 2022, 4:44 pm No loyal units are available in the recon list,
It must be a bug then. Could you post your save files? They will help with isolating the problem.
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Re: Winds of Fate 3.x.x (Drake Campaign for BfW 1.16)

Post by revolting_peasant »

@name: Added a couple of Save files. If you want other ones, please be more specific...
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Re: Winds of Fate 3.x.x (Drake Campaign for BfW 1.16)

Post by name »

revolting_peasant wrote: May 19th, 2022, 6:40 pm If you want other ones, please be more specific...
Nah, these work well enough. So it looks like in your recall list you have a drake blademaster named "Marditt" and a drake arbiter named "Garitos Ohm" (who has the Sapphire of Ice upgrade), and these two are your loyal intendants. If you look closely they have the "loyal crown" symbol on their sprites.

They do otherwise look pretty nondescript inside the recall list though... I will have to think about how this might be improved.
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Re: Winds of Fate 3.x.x (Drake Campaign for BfW 1.16)

Post by hermestrismi »

name wrote: May 20th, 2022, 2:40 am
revolting_peasant wrote: May 19th, 2022, 6:40 pm If you want other ones, please be more specific...
Nah, these work well enough. So it looks like in your recall list you have a drake blademaster named "Marditt" and a drake arbiter named "Garitos Ohm" (who has the Sapphire of Ice upgrade), and these two are your loyal intendants. If you look closely they have the "loyal crown" symbol on their sprites.

They do otherwise look pretty nondescript inside the recall list though... I will have to think about how this might be improved.
maybe you need to recall them for a small speech after adding them to the recall list and store them again
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Re: Winds of Fate 3.x.x (Drake Campaign for BfW 1.16)

Post by revolting_peasant »

@name: Those units are do not have the loyal trait, and in the recall list I am told they would require upkeep. I've never heard of a "loyal crown" before. I know there's a gray "hero band" or "hero crown" if you will, and those units get auto-recalled, but - a person playing this campaign is quite unlikely to notice that bar or interpret it the way you've indicated.

So, first of all - add a Loyal trait to the "Loyal intendants". Also, have a dialog in which a loyal intendant introduces themselves, or present themselves, when they first assume the position (if not at the beginning of each scenario). Auto-recall may also be considered, although that may be a balance issue.
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Re: Winds of Fate 3.x.x (Drake Campaign for BfW 1.16)

Post by name »

hermestrismi wrote: May 20th, 2022, 7:25 am maybe you need to recall them for a small speech after adding them to the recall list and store them again
Yeah, something like this is probably the way to go.
revolting_peasant wrote: May 20th, 2022, 7:37 pm So, first of all - add a Loyal trait to the "Loyal intendants".
At least as far as the interface goes, I believe there's only room for two traits. So adding a third trait (loyal) to an already existing unit when it gets promoted to intendant, would displace one of its original two traits in the interface. But I agree that the intendants still need to stand out better from the rest of the recall list.
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Re: Winds of Fate 3.x.x (Drake Campaign for BfW 1.16)

Post by hermestrismi »

name wrote: May 22nd, 2022, 2:20 pm
hermestrismi wrote: May 20th, 2022, 7:25 am maybe you need to recall them for a small speech after adding them to the recall list and store them again
Yeah, something like this is probably the way to go.
revolting_peasant wrote: May 20th, 2022, 7:37 pm So, first of all - add a Loyal trait to the "Loyal intendants".
At least as far as the interface goes, I believe there's only room for two traits. So adding a third trait (loyal) to an already existing unit when it gets promoted to intendant, would displace one of its original two traits in the interface. But I agree that the intendants still need to stand out better from the rest of the recall list.
just asking
you can't use

Code: Select all

ignore_global_traits=yes
or

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ignore_race_traits=yes
for a

Code: Select all

[unit]
and keep them as they are for the others?
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Re: Winds of Fate 3.x.x (Drake Campaign for BfW 1.16)

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

I believe there's only room for two traits.
This is incorrect. There is no such thing as only 2 traits unless it's being generated by the game. In some campaigns, loyal units are allowed 3 traits and leaders and heroes are also allowed 3 traits, maybe more. It is dependent on what the campaign designer plans for the characters.

Legend of Wesmere has 3-trait characters (loyal + 2 regulars). There is really no "convention" of a loyal having only 2 traits (if it is, then I think it's time to modernise).
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