Descent into Darkness

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tribes55
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Joined: June 10th, 2012, 4:29 am

Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by tribes55 »

Fun, great campaign.

Just a small dialogue error. Nothing is spelled wrong, but in "Beginning of the revenge", when Darken Volk kills an Orc, Malin Keshar exclaims "Taste my wrath!" or something of those lines.

What's happening:
When Darken Volk kills an orc for the first time, Malin Keshar exclaims "Taste my Wrath!"

What (potentially) should be happening:
When Malin Keshar kills an orc for the first time, Malin Keshar exclaims "Taste my Wrath!"

Version: 1.12.5
Thank you! :)
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tamanegi
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by tamanegi »

There seems to be a bug in the trap move_to event (24,13) in 11_Descent_into_Darkness.

The intended actions might be as the following.

- a unit (not bat, not ghost) moves to (24,13)
- the unit cries out
- the unit forced to move to (25,13)
- the unit killed

But the moveto (25,13) never succeeds because check_passability is not set properly in the actual code, {MOVE_UNIT (x,y=24,13) 25 13}. So if I move a skeleton to (24,13), it cries out and then moves to (23,14). This is ridiculously confusing.

If there is a bat in (25,13) and a skeleton moves to (24,13), skeleton cries out and moves to (23,14) and the bat at (25,13) is silently killed. It is very funny. I dare say this event is completely broken.

Checked on v1.12.6 and v1.13.5+dev (f4ac23a-Clean).

# By the way, is check_passability=no of [move_unit] available in dev versions?
# It works in 1.12.6 but does not in 1.13.5(f4ac23a) in this test... Just have I mistaken?
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zookeeper
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by zookeeper »

tamanegi wrote:There seems to be a bug in the trap move_to event (24,13) in 11_Descent_into_Darkness.

The intended actions might be as the following.

- a unit (not bat, not ghost) moves to (24,13)
- the unit cries out
- the unit forced to move to (25,13)
- the unit killed

But the moveto (25,13) never succeeds because check_passability is not set properly in the actual code, {MOVE_UNIT (x,y=24,13) 25 13}. So if I move a skeleton to (24,13), it cries out and then moves to (23,14). This is ridiculously confusing.

If there is a bat in (25,13) and a skeleton moves to (24,13), skeleton cries out and moves to (23,14) and the bat at (25,13) is silently killed. It is very funny. I dare say this event is completely broken.

Checked on v1.12.6 and v1.13.5+dev (f4ac23a-Clean).
Oww. Well spotted. I'll fix that.
tamanegi wrote:# By the way, is check_passability=no of [move_unit] available in dev versions?
# It works in 1.12.6 but does not in 1.13.5(f4ac23a) in this test... Just have I mistaken?
There shouldn't be any difference, but I'll check.
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zookeeper
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by zookeeper »

In 1.13 check_passability=no was indeed broken; should be fixed in the next release.
dddontshoot
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by dddontshoot »

I stumbled onto a way to always win the Endless Night. I got up to the Foolish Hero that starts with 2200 gold before I got bored and came here to find out if there ever was an end to it.

I'm using version 1.10.7

The strategy is this:
1) recruit 3 Nightgaunts or Shadows
2) move Mal Keshar into the deep water at 25, 12
3) keep ending your turn until the Foolish Hero runs out of gold. Their units just stop moving when they realise they can't kill you in the water. And can't see the units with NightStalk Ability
4) Use a Shadow to take a village, this will attract all their units towards that village leaving the Foolish Hero unguarded and vunerable to attack from the Nightgaunts.

I only had 1 Nightgaunt and 2 Shadows at the start of Endless Night, they eventually all upgraded to Nightgaunts. More Nightgaunts would be better, if you miss an attack in the Foolish Hero, you may lose one or all three. None of my level 1 units ever survived long enough to upgrade, so I was stuck with just the 3.

I suggest removing that patch of deep water. This forces Mal Keshar to recruit an army for defence. An army that will eventually be outnumbered by the Foolish Hero.
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The_Gnat
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by The_Gnat »

Hello, that's a very good strategy. As for Decent into Darkness the point is that as a dead lich there is no end. So in answer to your question: that scenario is an infinite loop.

But also welcome to the forum :D ! (also if you really want to get the laurel for winning DiD i can send you a mod that allows you to win that scenario)
jeffnz
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by jeffnz »

I think that this campaign is too difficult. I got stuck on Orc War, but I'm sure I beat that map on a previous version of the game many years ago. It feels like the ai is too good. I'm modifying DiD for my own entertainment.
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The_Gnat
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by The_Gnat »

jeffnz wrote:I'm modifying DiD for my own entertainment.
That's what makes this game great! :D

Also a fun thing to do sometimes - if you press the ':' key (you might need to hold shift) it will bring up a console. Type 'debug' into the console and then if you right click you can add units to your team.
jeffnz
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by jeffnz »

For the map "A Haunting In Winter" I made the ai less aggressive, so that they don't advance quickly and thus cannot block me in narrow areas. I also allow the recruitment of level 2 Skeleton Archers and level 2 Revenants (the upkeep is horrible and even level 2 units get beaten up). I also gave myself more turns and yet I still can't make good progress because movement inside the cave is slow and it's too narrow.

In most RTS games, units intelligently move as a group, but in Wesnoth you can't make a unit at the back move onward, if there is another unit blocking him. We should get rid of slow movement in caves for ALL races: I feel that it makes the game less fun when movement is slow. Most units only move 4 or 5 at a time, so it takes an eternity to move through a narrow cave.

Is there a way to make one unit follow the unit in front? When a friendly unit is obstructed by another friendly unit, it stops further movement so sometimes my units only move 1 or 2 hexes.
AlexanderRM
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by AlexanderRM »

As others have noted, in the final scenario if you level up Mal Keshar into an Ancient Lich and then put him on a village, the AI will rarely if ever attack him and he can pick them off one unit at a time (so far tested on the southernmost village- only 3 squares bordering it- against Bandits). What makes me sad about this is that he's genuinely very powerful on that spot and it would be fun to see how well he would do even if bandits went all-out against him.
Is it possible to modify the AI aggressiveness with the console by any chance? Or would I need to edit my source code for that?
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Aldarisvet
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by Aldarisvet »

I've just finished translating new revison of Descent into Darkness into Russian and I want to say that I really like the campaign's storyline and new revisions in particular. It was a pleasure to translate it. In contrast to the experience with South Guard which was also reworked some time ago, but it did not help form my point of view.
Well, DiD campaign was one of the best from the very beginning.
Just wrote it because I was always quite critical about mainline stuff, but I want to be fair.
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Argesilao2
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by Argesilao2 »

I'm playing this campaign with BfW 1.16.2, difficulty Hard.

Scenario Endless Night 2.

I do not recruit or recall any units, I use only Mal Keshar, and I win :shock:

No enemy units attack Mal Keshar, who can then reach the enemy leader undisturbed and win the scenario.
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rmj
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by rmj »

Final Scenario, Endless Night.

The code has reflectionpool3 with y=43?, but the map is only 30 hexes high.
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

rmj wrote: May 19th, 2022, 4:50 pm Final Scenario, Endless Night.

The code has reflectionpool3 with y=43?, but the map is only 30 hexes high.
Not a bug
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Sire
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Re: Descent into Darkness

Post by Sire »

Finally finished my playthrough of Descent into Darkness (Normal). Overall, I loved the campaign! DiD one of the better campaigns in mainline, and I'll say the rework moves DiD into my favorite campaign of mainline. (My previous favorite was The South Guard, which I last played years ago.)
-- As a note, I did make use of save/load during this run, as well as peeking into the scenario files to make sure I didn't miss any secrets. Please keep this in mind when watching the replays.

Scenario One - Saving Parthyn
-- Not much to talk about here, save for the fact I managed to kill the leader by just rushing forward with the WCs.
-- A part of me wanted to try the alternative win condition (no necromancy), but I decided to just play normally.
-- I did get the special Soulless Merman here. Honestly wasn't too impressed with it, and I got into further detail down below in scenario six.

Scenario Two - Peaceful Valley
-- A simple and straightforward scenario. I got some Bats to scout and sent the WCs forward.
-- This scenario is the start of my Ghoul Feeding Adventures, as these three would become the chosen ones for the next scenario...

Scenario Three - A Haunting in Winter
-- Ah yes, the mission where I sat there from Turn 30 to Turn 316 farming EXP and HP (Necrophage Feeding). Nom Nom was my primary target, with Feed Me and Big Boi being alternative Necrophages to feed. I got the first farm message around turn 156.
--- I also leveled my Skeletons up to Level 3, and got my Bat to Level 2.
-- As an aside, I loved the writing in this chapter. Learning the arts of Necromancy was great, and the gameplay of the chapter was also enjoyable.

Scenario Four - Spring of Reprisal
-- Fairly straightforward map with the ice gimmick. I used this scenario as the chance to start leveling some Ghosts.
== I forgot to mention about the Spectral Servant (whom I named "The Butler"). Having a unique Ghost/Wrath/Spectre is pretty great and I enjoyed the AMLAs it had. I mostly just focused on melee damage whenever possible.
== Also, guess I should talk about Mallin AMLAs. I went for a spellcaster Mallin, and that one ability that does triple damage at the cost of one strike probably should be nerfed to 2.5. It's just too good of an ability.
== I do wonder about potential "EXP Loss" from the AMLAs though, specifically when the unit promotes to its higher level counterpart. I'm not sure if the damage boosts stays or not, which is something that could be investigated.

Scenario Five - Schism
-- Was expecting a hard mission (was getting flashbacks from UtBS difficult missions), but it turned out it wasn't that bad.
-- Routed the western and southern orcs. The east ran away.

Scenario Six - Return to Parthyn
-- Had some minor difficulty with deciding how to deploy my soldiers, but other than that things went relatively smoothly.
-- I decided to push into Parthyn with a small detatchment, but didn't kill Dela. They were harassing my forces and I needed to focus on the Orc threat.
-- Near the end I decided to farm some EXP, so I delayed killing the Orc Leader for 2 turns.
== As an aside, I guess I'll talk about Sushi, the unique Soulless Merman one can obtain in the first scenario and upgrade here. Honestly, while Sushi gets Poison and Feeding, the low movement speed and the lack of water on maps makes Sushi sorta worthless. I know it's a "fun easter egg" unit, but it doesn't get the chance to really shine outside of scenarios One and Six.

Scenario Seven - A Small Favor
-- Part One: I initially tried to sneak in, but then they walked right toward me, so I chose violence instead. // For some reason, I could've swore the previous version forced stealth here, unless I'm confusing it with the Liberty stealth mission.
-- Part Two: A straightforward mission, although a part of me wonders about the usefulness of the Amulet. // The flavor text for various things were nice.
-- Part Three: Had to do some clever positioning here, but managed to make through it. This was one of the harder scenarios for me due to the lack of healing.

== I managed to get the Chocobone unit, which I was not really planning on getting. The enemy just happened to recruit a Cavalryman that was right in range of my guy, so I managed to get it. // The Chocobone is great and it shines in these scenarios since it can Charge down spellcasters, but I ended up losing mine and didn't care too much for it to reload.
== As for Jaime the Drunk Soulless, he proved to be rather useful due to his Drunken Rage that he can obtain in Scenario Eight. Since he could actually move on land, I managed to get some use out of him in the later scenarios. However, he perished by the lance of a Foolish Knight who ventured into the domain of Mal Keshar.

Scenario Eight - Alone at Last
-- Like the Schism, I expected a rough scenario. Instead, I basically overwhelmed my foes and was ahead of schedule for the other two factions. (Of course, having powerful recalls and doing save/load contributes to this, so yeah...)
-- I initially thought about just getting the book and leaving for story purposes, but they asked for annihilation when coming so unprepared.

Scenario Nine - Descent into Darkness
-- Part One: Straightforward with Rune gimmicks. I didn't really get to use them much though.
-- Part Two: So, I was wondering about the lack of villages to heal in. In the end, I said "screw it" and rest healed my way to victory instead of trying
to drain heal and explore with low health. Rest Healing took some of the fun out of the scenario since I was just passing turns doing nothing, but at least I was able to explore most of the caves.
-- Part Three: I was confused about this fight at first until I learned I could level into an Ancient Lich, then it turned into a DPS race. The scattered runes helped a bit too, although I am unsure if I'm supposed to be able to use the same rune multiple times, even if on different turns.

Scenario Ten - Eternal Night
-- I made it to the sixth loop where the dual enemies appear (Elves, Outlaws, Orcs, Loyalists, Elves, Loyalists/Outlaws). Didn't get the chance to fight any Dwarves.
-- I was more motivated to try to keep looping this time around due to the AMLAs and small extra dialogue. In the previous version, I ended up the loop as soon as I could so I could just end the campaign.
-- I found the Orcs and Bandits to be the most difficult, as they also received bonuses in the Underground. Loyalists and Elves were relatively easy, just had to watch for their spellcasters.
-- For the final run, I just focused north and was surprised that the mission ended immediately when a southern bandit stopped on the book. I was half-expecting to see the bandit run back and then end the mission, but I guess it works either way.
-- I could try for more loops, but I'm honestly good (and I can just read the rest in the files). I'll leave the challenge of fighting the two separate fronts to another player.
=== Not sure about the significance of the cuttlefish, unless its a reference to the user Inky. A shame nothing really comes of it though aside from the bonus dialogue, so I ended up leaving it be on further loops.
=== The Skeletal Dragon was fun to play with. I wish it had a ranged attack of its own, but it is what it is. // I built mine to be tanky, so I took the Resistance AMLAs.
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