How traits modify max_experience in BFW1.16?
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How traits modify max_experience in BFW1.16?
The effect of intelligent trait on the max experience in version 1.16 is a bit confusing.
An intelligent Spearman has 23xp (for unit type experience at 42) and the intelligent clasher has 26xp (unit type: 45).
It has clearly changed since BFW1.14 as the following screenshots show.
In BFW1.14 for the same stats and trait, the spearman had 24xp while the clasher had 25xp.
In the dialog that shows the unit description, it shows as 32xp for Clasher (31.5 rounded up) and 29xp for Spearman (29.4 rounded down) for both BFW1.14 and 1.16 (taking in account the 70% XP modifier defined in the default map settings).
So the gap has moved from 1xp to 3xp between these 2 units.
BFW-1.16
It has clearly changed since BFW1.14 as the following screenshots show.
BFW-1.14
In the dialog that shows the unit description, it shows as 32xp for Clasher (31.5 rounded up) and 29xp for Spearman (29.4 rounded down) for both BFW1.14 and 1.16 (taking in account the 70% XP modifier defined in the default map settings).
So the gap has moved from 1xp to 3xp between these 2 units.
Last edited by demario on October 28th, 2021, 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
"simply put, it's an old game"T — Cackfiend
- Pentarctagon
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Re: How traits modify max_experience in BFW1.16?
Hejnewar made a lot of changes to the default era (and also just a lot of changes in general), so he'd be the one to ask about mainline unit balancing changes.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
take one down, patch it around
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Re: How traits modify max_experience in BFW1.16?
I hope it was clear that this is not coming from a stat change but from a change in the engine.
Looking further this is a consequence of change on how the different modifiers are taken into account.
From a spreadsheet comparing the 2 calculations, I suspect the problem will extend to:
Looking further this is a consequence of change on how the different modifiers are taken into account.
- BFW1.14 is using modification from trait first (-20%) and modification from map setting after (70%) with rounding done in between.
- BFW1.16 is applying from map setting (70%) to the unit type first and modification from trait after (-20%) with rounding done in between.
From a spreadsheet comparing the 2 calculations, I suspect the problem will extend to:
MORE +1xp to intelligent units in BFW1.16 vs 1.14
LESS -1xp to intelligent units in BFW1.16 vs 1.14
"simply put, it's an old game"T — Cackfiend
- Pentarctagon
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Re: How traits modify max_experience in BFW1.16?
Alright. It looks like that change was made unintentionally in fact, but it made it into 1.16 so we're stuck with it for now.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
Re: How traits modify max_experience in BFW1.16?
OK.Pentarctagon wrote: ↑October 28th, 2021, 4:06 pm Alright. It looks like that change was made unintentionally in fact, but it made it into 1.16 so we're stuck with it for now.
The thing is that involves pretty common units that level in 1v1 (grunt, thief, augur, clasher, spearman, fencer). Beyond change in balance, it also breaks replay.
If you have a chance, consider applying the patch in attachment that would solve the problem according to my early testing.
Sorry about that. Fixed.Pentarctagon wrote: ↑October 29th, 2021, 12:19 am posting patch files to the forums is not a good [...] way to do this.
Last edited by demario on October 30th, 2021, 9:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
- Pentarctagon
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Re: How traits modify max_experience in BFW1.16?
It can't be applied to 1.16 at this point since it would break compatibility with 1.16.0, so this could be fixed in 1.17 but not 1.16.
Also please use git+github to submit patches. If you need some help getting things setup then we can help you with that, but posting patch files to the forums is not a good or convenient way to do this.
Also please use git+github to submit patches. If you need some help getting things setup then we can help you with that, but posting patch files to the forums is not a good or convenient way to do this.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
Re: How traits modify max_experience in BFW1.16?
It seems this is the fix for #1796, as in the old behavior was considered a bug which was fixed; sadly no-one jumped in and pointed out that multiplayer was balanced for the old behavior.Pentarctagon wrote: ↑October 28th, 2021, 4:06 pm Alright. It looks like that change was made unintentionally in fact, but it made it into 1.16 so we're stuck with it for now.
Do you mean "breaks replays from 1.14"? Sadly, now that 1.16.0 is out it's more important to keep compatibility with 1.16.0 rather than compatibility with 1.14.