Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Feedback for the mainline campaign The Hammer of Thursagan.

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Konrad2
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 4 - High Pass

Post by Konrad2 »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.15.1, Challenging (Lord)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

1 (see (5))

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Interesting and clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

None. The scenario doesn't work right now.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

1 (see (5))

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Fix it.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.
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supperman
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by supperman »

Content Feedback wrote: March 10th, 2008, 10:58 pm (1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?
Challenging on 1.12.5

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)
10 - Hardest in the campaign. I managed to do it after multiple tries because I happened to have multiple veterans close to leveling.
I also got lucky with the thunderguard, which soon leveled into dragonguard. I don't know how else I would have gotten rid of all wolves blocking the way.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?
Getting through was clear, but the hut with the mage isn't marked anyhow.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?
Good.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?
Number of enemies blocking the way.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)
3. It's only about trying to get through the enemies before time runs out.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?
Enemy spawns should be less random. Instead of creating new enemies in the middle of the map, put a flock of wolves in each corner of the map from the beginning. They will reach the player at different times, so random spawns aren't needed. Also all ogres and gryphons should be on the map from the beginning. Just make sure they don't all meet the player at once. If you think there isn't enough action toward the end, make more enemies spawn at *the edge* of the map at some point.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?
Running out of time, a hero getting surrounded and killed while trying to reach the signpost in time.
Losing the loyal gryphon I didn't recall in latter tries.
JTamas
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by JTamas »

I think this scenario was replaced (end possibly reworked)? It was scenario 4 in my campaign, if I recall correctly.

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

Medium, 1.15.15

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

4. Easy scenario to level some units.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

I don't think there was much story/dialog.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

At one time, the enemy units that pop up in random places on this scenario trapped my leader. I could only get away by luck.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7. I found it fun to fight with my dwarves in the mountains.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Some dialogue could be added the first time the random units appear.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

No.
KK188
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by KK188 »

What a dumb scenario. Who designed it so that enemies spawn right next to your units, in good terrain, just to block your path. If this stupid spawning mechanic is to be kept, remove the griffins at least.
mcbanhas
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by mcbanhas »

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.16.1, Normal (Steelclad)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

10

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Clear.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Interesting and clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

As of the latest revision this scenario appears to be unwinnable on normal difficulty unless you bring a very good carryover. This mission used to be lvl 5 instead of lvl 3 on previous revisions and my impression is that the difficulty wasn't really well accounted for this. The enemy frequently spawns very strong lvl 2 units (ogres, trolls) which are meaty and deal a lot of damage, and are supported by highly mobile flyers and skirmisher units (gryphons, wolves) which can very easily exploit weaknesses from the back or prevent any attempts from escape from the rear or sides. Dwarvish units excel in solid defensive lines, but are slow moving and difficult to maneuver which makes them very vulnerable to this sort of arrangement. The escort mission element doesn't help at all, since the constantly spawning enemy waves turn any forward push into a hopeless crawl. Moving through the forest is not a viable option either, given all enemy units have a defence advantage over yours in this environment and the gryphons can easily intercept a forward moving group. All in all, this scenario feels like nothing less than a perfect trap for your army.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

2

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

Fixing this mission can be done in many ways, but I feel campaign framing must be considered first and foremost. The most important thing to be taken into account is that this is an intermediate level campaign, meaning that ideally, when played in normal difficulty, it should give the player some challenge without feeling overly taxing or dragging. If not cleared on the 1st try a fitting strategy should be able to be developed by the average player on no more than 2 tries. It should not require any amount or specific-type of carryovers to complete the mission smoothly, although having them would be preferable. As such my suggestions are as follows:
1- The easiest way is to keep the current layout while reducing the number of enemy spawns and change some of the enemy types. Avoid deploying lvl 2 hard hitters from the start and spawn level 1s instead, with a larger lvl 2 boss blocking the end of the road. Gryphons should be limited in number instead of infinitely spawning. Wolves would perhaps be a better fitting main opponent which could be explained in the scenario's plot (the group unknowingly crosses the territory of an aggressive wolf pack).
2 - Given this is only the third mission following two large engagements, perhaps an overhaul shouldn't be taken out of the picture. Having this become a quest-type mission with multiple branching paths, could prove to be a good chance to level up your heroes and a small select group of veteran troops. There could be special triggers, checkpoints for spawning reinforcements and even money/xp bonuses hidden along the way. A nice change of pace to an otherwise battle-heavy campaign.

(8) Was there any event that caused you to lose the game and forced you to reload or restart the scenario?

Yes. The large amount of enemy spawns and disposition as described above. I wasn't able to clear the mission after trying multiple tactics and unit combinations. Rewinding turns or having a plenty of high level carryovers might be the only way to clear it unless I am missing something. Conversely, I was able to clear the prior two missions on the first try and without rewinding, losing only a single unit in lvl 2 and none in lvl1.
mcbanhas
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by mcbanhas »

An update on my previous post: after one more try I finally managed to beat this mission on one sitting by spacing unit recruitments and slowly pushing forward between enemy waves. It was still a very tight victory, with all enemies cleared only by turn 17, meaning my hero, who was at that point in the middle of the map, was only able to reach the signpost precisely on turn 20. This mission feels like a sharp jump on difficulty and the required macro strategy does not become clear as quickly as in prior missions. I think that having one less wave of ogres/trolls, properly spaced, would make it a lot more fitting for normal difficulty.
Nobody_III
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by Nobody_III »

What happened to the mage Ratheln? I've repeatedly tried to get him, and his name is in some of the data files, but not in

Code: Select all

04_High_Pass.cfg
at all, and I couldn't find any triggers to spawn him in any other scenarios either.
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

That's cause the in the revision of THoT, this character no longer exists.
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by egallager »

Lord-Knightmare wrote: March 31st, 2022, 5:35 am That's cause the in the revision of THoT, this character no longer exists.
Why was he removed?
Wesnoth-related GitHub repos:
General mods collection, SotBEEE, AToTBWaTD, The Earth's Gut, A Little Adventure, FtF
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Re: Scenario Review: THoT 6 - High Pass

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

egallager wrote: April 16th, 2022, 5:51 am
Lord-Knightmare wrote: March 31st, 2022, 5:35 am That's cause the in the revision of THoT, this character no longer exists.
Why was he removed?
I don't know. Ask the Project Council's SP Content In-Charge.
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