Orc units - graphics

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shevegen
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Orc units - graphics

Post by shevegen » August 17th, 2019, 11:36 pm

First ... the forum is a bit confusing. For example I can not write in the art contribution sector, so I am posting here. But in the long run, perhaps the whole forum could be a bit cleaned up; some subthreads seem dead/inactive. But this is an aside - to the main topic.

Wesnoth has some high quality art; 2D character portraits in particular, but also most units look nifty.

There is, however had, one I dislike in particular - the orcs.

For some reason they do not seem to look like orcs. Even the trolls look more like trolls, and the ogres look more like ogres, and the goblins look more like goblins ... but the orcs look strange.

This is partially due to the big weapon in the portrait. Perhaps the swords can become a bit more zagged or rugged or sagged or ... with spikes and such. A bit less like a katan. But the whole orc unit looks a bit ... bulky and fat, more like a blob than some beast.

Of course you can say ... how SHOULD orcs look like. :)

That depends on the fantasy setting of course.

I think one that quite a few may know are the orcs from the Tolkien world.

They look a bit too ... undead-like, ghoulish-like in most movies ...

Like here:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/lot ... 0320014050

(I just realized ... the edit buttons are strange... where is the img tag for embedding?

Then there are these - look more like kobolds than orc:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam ... mwidth=450

And these:

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2 ... 2e9a9.webp

Also a bit silly.

This portrait I quite like although I am not sure this is an orc ...

http://jaredshear.com/site/wp-content/u ... LOR_v2.jpg
Image

But either way, I think you get the idea. Orcs look a bit more beastly and brutish. It would be great if
we could find an artist with a beasty touch. Perhaps also remove the armours or some armours
in the portrait or something like that.

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MoonyDragon
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Re: Orc units - graphics

Post by MoonyDragon » September 18th, 2019, 9:11 pm

shevegen wrote:
August 17th, 2019, 11:36 pm
For some reason they do not seem to look like orcs.

This is partially due to the big weapon in the portrait. Perhaps the swords can become a bit more zagged or rugged or sagged or ... with spikes and such. A bit less like a katan. But the whole orc unit looks a bit ... bulky and fat, more like a blob than some beast.

Of course you can say ... how SHOULD orcs look like. :)

That depends on the fantasy setting of course.

I think one that quite a few may know are the orcs from the Tolkien world.
You criticise wesnoth-orcs for deviating from the tolkienesque conception of orcs, and suggest that their depiction should be altered. The discussion of improvements and new ideas on how to fix some problems are highly welcome :) But you depict the problem as orcs in the wesnoth fantasy setting not being orcs enough; and within 6 lines you solve it, stating that their looks depend on the fantasy setting, in example, the wesnoth universe.

As a matter of personal opinion, I admire the Wesnoth world for adhering to reasonable depiction of a world that has magical forces and multiple intelligent hominid/reptile races, but is equal to ours in everything else. The prevailing theme is not a moralistic good-evil fairy tale, as all wesnothian races have their characteristics and flaws. And they have to coexist in more or less a struggle that is reminiscent of our own historic experience with multiple peoples / states / empires.
From this angle, I find the non-bestial, biologically sound and remarkably "human" orcs of wesnoth much more convincing. Their existence is entirely explainable by human evolution among a highly unstable, harsher and warlike environment, that creates a sturdier, more aggressive race and culture.
Are they now irredeemably evil because they are 24/7/365 at war and hold slaves? Is not our own history full of expansions, genocides and slavery?
Are they thus not remarkably human in their behaviour? Is them wearing armor, forging clean swords, and looking not bestial or undead, but human-ish - the "most reasonable depiction" of orcs?
shevegen wrote:
August 17th, 2019, 11:36 pm
They look a bit too ... undead-like, ghoulish-like in most movies ...

But either way, I think you get the idea. Orcs look a bit more beastly and brutish. It would be great if
we could find an artist with a beasty touch. Perhaps also remove the armours or some armours
in the portrait or something like that.
In addition to all the above, we would now need "an artist" that re-does all their portraits AND sprites to look more "undead-like, ghoulish-like" / "beastly and brutish". And dont get me started on all the add-ons that would need fixes to accomodate themselves to the new orcs...
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Aldarisvet
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Re: Orc units - graphics

Post by Aldarisvet » September 19th, 2019, 8:37 am

shevegen wrote:
August 17th, 2019, 11:36 pm
I think one that quite a few may know are the orcs from the Tolkien world.

They look a bit too ... undead-like, ghoulish-like in most movies ...
Blame the movies. Really.

Wesnothian orcs look just they are described in Tolkien's books.
According to Tolkien, orcs are perverted elves (perverted by Morgoth), not some homunculuses that Saruman created from the dirt.

After Tolkien invented orcs, they appeared in many fantasy games and wesnothian orcs are "classical" orcs for sure.
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otzenpunk
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Re: Orc units - graphics

Post by otzenpunk » September 19th, 2019, 10:30 am

Aldarisvet wrote:
September 19th, 2019, 8:37 am
After Tolkien invented orcs, they appeared in many fantasy games and wesnothian orcs are "classical" orcs for sure.
Yes. As an example here's a Bloodbowl orc: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PCtJ95XKW0Y/T ... 040164.JPG

Looks pretty similar.

And here's a picture from a 90s role-playing game based on Tolkien's Middle-Earth: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CwoqNGDBagI/T ... hirrim.jpg

Although in Tolkien's world, orcs seem not to be particularly strong and are more like goblins or other cheap cannon fodder with a high reproduction rate. (In fact, in the book The Hobbit they are called goblins and ride on wolves.) Wesnoth orcs would then be comparable more to Tolkien's Uruk-hai.

(All in all, I'm very glad Wesnoth orcs don't look as embarassing as the singing orc chief in the first Hobbit movie. :augh: )

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