A Little Adventure (SP campaign for 1.14)

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Argesilao

Re: A Little Adventure (SP campaign for 1.14)

Post by Argesilao »

denispir wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 12:02 pm
Was eager to start and play A Little Adventure, but could not find it on the add-on server !
It could be because It's only in the add-ons server for version 1.14 di BfW. You can't find it into the add-ons server for older version of the game :hmm:

denispir
Posts: 184
Joined: March 14th, 2013, 12:26 am

Re: A Little Adventure (SP campaign for 1.14)

Post by denispir »

All right, upgraded and found it and more...

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tr0ll
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Re: A Little Adventure (SP campaign for 1.14)

Post by tr0ll »

denispir wrote:
December 27th, 2018, 12:02 pm
Was eager to start and play A Little Adventure, but could not find it on the add-on server !
i just checked, it is on the 1.14 add-on server. what version of of wesnoth are you running?

denispir
Posts: 184
Joined: March 14th, 2013, 12:26 am

Re: A Little Adventure (SP campaign for 1.14)

Post by denispir »

Previously, 1.12.

I meant: I did find it (& other things) on the server for 1.14 and will play it. I also played the magicians and 3 sisters, see the latter thread...

Thank you again for all tour good and nice work, Argesilao !

otzenpunk
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Re: A Little Adventure (SP campaign for 1.14)

Post by otzenpunk »

I started this on 'difficult', because it's designated as a 'novice level' campaign in the selector, and now I find it really really hard!

After a few attempts I managed to beat the outlaws in the first scenario by rushing across the river during daylight with my two spearmen and the first keep of peasants/woodsmen, killing their leader—who came out of his keep—at turn 5, while I only left a couple of peasants back to hold off the orcs for 2 turns. Didn't manage to get much XP on my leader though, and of course none on Geobard, and I was kind of surprised that my nearly levelled loyal spearman didn't show up in the next scenario. :(

Now I'm stuck in scenario 2 because there are just a lot of orcs for my few units, and no ability to recruit, and their wolf riders really quickly surround me and attack the wounded in the tents. Maybe I'll give it another try falling back entirely to the woods for the night? Don't know. But reading here that the 'normal' level is quite easy to manage, I'm not really keen to go down.

I like the story so far, though, but I really urge you to change the campaign level from 'novice' to something else. As I understand, 'novice' campaigns should be straightforward for people just learning Wesnoth, and focus on standard strategies and recruitment patterns. Depending on level 0s or not being able to recruit at all is imho clearly a sign, that the campaign is not for novice users, which is a bummer, because experienced users might skip it entirely for this reason, while newbies might become desperate pretty soon. Additionally I'd definitely like to see experienced units from scenario 1 showing up in future scenarios. Having this spearman just having to kill one more unit to level, and getting healed in the course of it, really would help.

Argesilao

Re: A Little Adventure (SP campaign for 1.14)

Post by Argesilao »

otzenpunk wrote:
January 4th, 2019, 9:31 am
I like the story so far, though, but I really urge you to change the campaign level from 'novice' to something else. As I understand, 'novice' campaigns should be straightforward for people just learning Wesnoth, and focus on standard strategies and recruitment patterns. Depending on level 0s or not being able to recruit at all is imho clearly a sign, that the campaign is not for novice users, which is a bummer, because experienced users might skip it entirely for this reason, while newbies might become desperate pretty soon. Additionally I'd definitely like to see experienced units from scenario 1 showing up in future scenarios. Having this spearman just having to kill one more unit to level, and getting healed in the course of it, really would help.
Uhm! I am rather reluctant to change the level of the campaign, because I still think the campaign is suitable for novices because the maps are small or medium-sized, the same for the armies, and there isn't strange units or strange puzzle to solve, but I must admit that the gameplay it isn't always suitable for a novice player, at least at the difficult level. :hmm:

But I can change the wording for the highest level of difficulty, for example in nightmare or very hard, so the players will be warned of what awaits them.

otzenpunk
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Re: A Little Adventure (SP campaign for 1.14)

Post by otzenpunk »

Argesilao wrote:
January 5th, 2019, 9:47 pm
Uhm! I am rather reluctant to change the level of the campaign, because I still think the campaign is suitable for novices because the maps are small or medium-sized, the same for the armies, and there isn't strange units or strange puzzle to solve,
Well, it's obviously your decision, and it's kind of cosmetic anyway, so I don't really bother. But the Wesnoth Campaign Design Howto describes novice campaigns like this:
… little more than “able to move and fight units in rough groups and rotate your wounded out of the way”…
… and I really think, you probably overestimate the abilities of novice users. Also, lvl 0 units do qualify in a certain sense as 'strange' or at least unusual to me, and they effectively cause all the orcish and outlaw units in scenario 1 to get the skirmish ability, which makes rotating wounded units a pain. I certainly don't think I'm some kind of benchmark user, but I'm usually definitely capable of solving novice campaigns on their hardest levels, at least all of the mainline ones, but at the moment I'm really stuck in this campaign without save-load-cheating or extensive RNG luck.

I've read the WML files of the first scenarios, which I played, as well, and noticed that on 'difficult' level the enemies get twice as much money than on normal. That's a big difference, imho. Maybe it's possible, and makes sense, to inject a third difficulty level in between? You could rename the 'normal' level in 'easy' then, while changing the campaign level at least to intermediate.

Argesilao

Re: A Little Adventure (SP campaign for 1.14)

Post by Argesilao »

otzenpunk wrote:
January 7th, 2019, 3:24 am
Maybe it's possible, and makes sense, to inject a third difficulty level in between? You could rename the 'normal' level in 'easy' then, while changing the campaign level at least to intermediate.
Maybe I should just make both levels of play easier :hmm:
I think I'll do so.

denispir
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Joined: March 14th, 2013, 12:26 am

Re: A Little Adventure (SP campaign for 1.14)

Post by denispir »

Hello @Argesilao,

I definitely support the point of view of @otzenpunk. I would describe myself as a player similarly to him in terms of level or experience. I only play on easy difficulty campaigns termed for experts which really look hard to me for various reasons (including big changes in game mechanics or having played another campaign by the same author which I found really difficult). I tried yours first on "hard" and found it extremely challenging for a supposed novice campaign, to the point of letting down: I was not then in a mindset of insisting and had then downloaded other games I also wanted to try, but gave priority to yours for having played your other campaigns which I liked very much. I recently retried on "normal" and still found it difficult, at a level absolutely abnormal for a campaign intended for novices. I had to mobilise all of my tactic, technique, attention just to win without disastrous results (*). This is what happens to me when playing, on the easiest difficulty, especially hard campaigns designed for experts, not novices! This applies to 1st and 2nd scenarios. (And think it was not my first trial, which helps a lot as you know.)

I do agree with you that the gameplay is just normal, but you do not seem to take into account that novice players by definition have no amount at all of the playing skill given by experience ;). Note that most "intermediate" campaigns have just about ordinary gameplay, so that you do not have to keep it as "novice" just because of that. But your difficuty levels would still be hard for an intermediate game, imo. Thus I would say:
* Call it "intermediate".
* Reduce a little its toughness on existing levels (advantage a little the player, not the opposite, see below).
* Add an "easy" difficulty clearly (but not exaggerately), easier than the present "normal" one.

I would add a note on difficulty design: it is better to advantage the player on easier difficulties (i speak of advantage because it may not be only strike force), than advantaging the enemy on harder difficulties, because of the gameplay: the stronger the enemy, the more advanced a player's troops afterwards, which indeed just mechanically increases the difference in further scenarios. (This also makes other things meaningless, for instance playthroughs usually written by experts who imply troops of all level 3's after a few scenarios, that readers, indeed more often rather novices if they need a playthrough, don't even dream of...)

diniz

(*) I mean, like Pyrrhus : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhus_of_Epirus

Argesilao

Re: A Little Adventure (SP campaign for 1.14)

Post by Argesilao »

I pondered, and I concluded that a 'for novice' campaign must be easier.

The campaign will remain for novice (there are sentimental reasons behind this thing), but I have made the first two levels simpler (less gold e no extra income for enemies, more turn to finish).

Well, the hard level is hard again, but less hard, I hope the normal level is now adequate.

Thanks for your feedback, I had made some evaluation errors about the use of level 0 units against level 1 units for a novice player :oops:

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holypaladin
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Re: A Little Adventure (SP campaign for 1.14)

Post by holypaladin »

Hi!
I be now on "lizard Island" or this is great campaning.
Really great heroes,so much thanks for do this great campaning :lol:
„I speak in Latin to God, Italian to Women, French to Men, and German to my Horse.

Karl V

Argesilao

Re: A Little Adventure (SP campaign for 1.14)

Post by Argesilao »

holypaladin wrote:
April 21st, 2019, 11:26 am
Hi!
I be now on "lizard Island" or this is great campaning.
Really great heroes,so much thanks for do this great campaning :lol:
Thank you :)

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holypaladin
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Re: A Little Adventure (SP campaign for 1.14)

Post by holypaladin »

Or great ogres;)
„I speak in Latin to God, Italian to Women, French to Men, and German to my Horse.

Karl V

zx_speccy_gamer
Posts: 11
Joined: May 19th, 2019, 8:42 pm

Re: A Little Adventure (SP campaign for 1.14)

Post by zx_speccy_gamer »

I was looking for a short easy-intermediate campaign. I saw this was a "novice" difficulty so thought I'd give it a go. I usually gauge the difficult settings and play on normal. This was a short "novice" campaign so I went for the hard difficulty. I manged to finish all the levels apart from the last level on hard, which I don't think is possible. I would love to see a replay of someone who has beaten this along with their previous level replays. I had to rely on some luck and some occasional save\loading a couple of levels when they went against me. I agree with most of the comments here that this is not a novice campaign. I would say intermediate is probably a fairer reflection.

I did like the story and setting, especially the enemies narrative at the start of the final battle.

I'll post my replays and my comments and strategy for each scenario

General Strategy
Spoiler:
Scenario 1
Spoiler:
Scenario 2
Spoiler:
Scenario 3
Spoiler:
Scenario 4
Spoiler:
Scenario 5
Spoiler:
Scenario 6
Spoiler:
Attachments
ALA-The Naga's Nest replay.gz
Scenario 3
(32.72 KiB) Downloaded 87 times
ALA-The Lizard's Islands replay.gz
Scenario 5
(46.63 KiB) Downloaded 82 times
ALA-The Bloody Hills replay.gz
Scenario 4
(31.73 KiB) Downloaded 77 times
ALA-The Attack to Amoran replay.gz
Scenario 1
(23.28 KiB) Downloaded 83 times
ALA-Battle with the Bandits replay.gz
Scenario 2
(21.14 KiB) Downloaded 83 times
Last edited by zx_speccy_gamer on May 20th, 2019, 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

zx_speccy_gamer
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Re: A Little Adventure (SP campaign for 1.14)

Post by zx_speccy_gamer »

Here's the other replay.
Attachments
ALA-The Last Battle replay.gz
Scenario 6
(49.64 KiB) Downloaded 80 times

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