Legend of the Invincibles
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles
Decided to try Affably Evil. Being lazy, I pointed it at LotI_beta. It didn't work, as NEUTRAL_SIDE is no longer defined.
Speak softly, and carry Doombringer.
Re: Legend of the Invincibles
Fixed that one too in the update.white_haired_uncle wrote: ↑February 20th, 2019, 12:07 am Decided to try Affably Evil. Being lazy, I pointed it at LotI_beta. It didn't work, as NEUTRAL_SIDE is no longer defined.
It's too impractical to keep all related add-ons updated and working with the LotI beta at the same time as the normal LotI. This issue wasn't a big deal, because the effect of that macro was replaced by core functionality, but some others might not be so easy to keep working with both.
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles
This happend when my elvish assaissn leveled up on the AIs turn
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles
General thoughts after finishing both parts.
Part one on easy was pretty much trivial. With a few restarts, I (a pretty bad player) could get through without ever losing a geared unit. I think this is perfect. It is just right for the player who is more interested in exploring and crafting and such than challenging battles.
Part two on easy was anything but (for me). When I first played it some months ago, I quit because I thought it was just stupidly insanely nasty, because....
.
That said, if you don't like that sort of thing, one of the chapters gets very old very fast.
It is also quite challenging when
Near the end there's a level with lots of portals. I'm not sure if it is possible to complete. Not that it's hard, I just couldn't find a way out after I had cleared everything.
After that is a level where you battle black souls. I can't see a way to finish this in the turns allowed. I could advance a hex every couple turns, but the wall of enemies was just too much to slog through.
And then the last scenario I found trivial, probably because I spent an earlier chapter levelling up lots of units. I would have preferred to be allowed to finish off the invaders.
If I had three wishes...
1) More focus on crafting, less on dumb luck. I'd rather have items harder to come by, but have my choice of which items to acquire.
2) A submenu that shows the "special" (the ones that combine with others) items that you possess, along with their location, listed by group. Later in the game it becomes hard to track all that stuff to make sure you're making the best usage thereof. If not, at least making the naming conventions consistent would be a big help (most of them, like the King or Dark items are, but stuff like the Cloak of the Pale Rider and the Angel's Ring???).
3) Never use the third wish.
Part one on easy was pretty much trivial. With a few restarts, I (a pretty bad player) could get through without ever losing a geared unit. I think this is perfect. It is just right for the player who is more interested in exploring and crafting and such than challenging battles.
Part two on easy was anything but (for me). When I first played it some months ago, I quit because I thought it was just stupidly insanely nasty, because....
Spoiler:
That said, if you don't like that sort of thing, one of the chapters gets very old very fast.
It is also quite challenging when
Spoiler:
After that is a level where you battle black souls. I can't see a way to finish this in the turns allowed. I could advance a hex every couple turns, but the wall of enemies was just too much to slog through.
And then the last scenario I found trivial, probably because I spent an earlier chapter levelling up lots of units. I would have preferred to be allowed to finish off the invaders.
If I had three wishes...
1) More focus on crafting, less on dumb luck. I'd rather have items harder to come by, but have my choice of which items to acquire.
2) A submenu that shows the "special" (the ones that combine with others) items that you possess, along with their location, listed by group. Later in the game it becomes hard to track all that stuff to make sure you're making the best usage thereof. If not, at least making the naming conventions consistent would be a big help (most of them, like the King or Dark items are, but stuff like the Cloak of the Pale Rider and the Angel's Ring???).
3) Never use the third wish.
Speak softly, and carry Doombringer.
Re: Legend of the Invincibles
* I look for two or three demon traits - conviction, cold attacks and maybe frail tide. Even that is too complicated - my enemy scanning steps are simply 1) conviction 2) cold attacks 3) be careful with any of my people outside the power buf group (Legacy of Kings, stuff like that). I played through it once with their conviction trait reduced to 15 (instead of 25) and felt I didn't need to scan for those enemies - I scanned for cold, but not with extreme attention.
* Start of chapter 10 is really really hard. For me, extensive and expensive crafting is critical. Almost no equipment against demons is just debilitating.
* The only way I can do the portal level is to put map labels on every portal showing where it goes.
* Interesting. I slaughtered that level, even leaving a couple behind to constantly kill what the portal spawned. But I didn't use orcs either, and the intent is to use orcs.
* End of the World is way too easy. I need to submit all the changes I've coded that make it more challenging on hard.
* Start of chapter 10 is really really hard. For me, extensive and expensive crafting is critical. Almost no equipment against demons is just debilitating.
* The only way I can do the portal level is to put map labels on every portal showing where it goes.
* Interesting. I slaughtered that level, even leaving a couple behind to constantly kill what the portal spawned. But I didn't use orcs either, and the intent is to use orcs.
* End of the World is way too easy. I need to submit all the changes I've coded that make it more challenging on hard.
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles
I'm not quite sure what the best solution to this would be. I always felt, this was mainly balanced around the assumption that
Spoiler:
Under blood-red skies, an old man sits
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles
I love this game haha I have one problem tho. I gave Mario the unholy Hunger potion. I got him to around 225 hp. When he became Duke, he still had that. On next scenario, When defending Ogria again, he was down to 90!! Can I get this fixed?
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles
Hey SerinoKing,
that is probably the intended behavior. Potion effects last until the next time you AMLA.
I'd guess Mario got his first AMLA at that point?
that is probably the intended behavior. Potion effects last until the next time you AMLA.
I'd guess Mario got his first AMLA at that point?
Under blood-red skies, an old man sits
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles
The scenarios "Arctic Wastelands" and "Jungle Hell" are not fun. They are boring and tedious. It should be only the group spawns, or endless units not both- And the Demons should not be able to cross the terrain that is literally named impassable, unless Lethalia and Efraim could do it as well.
Re: Legend of the Invincibles
Personally, I like Arctic Wastelands. I wish the snowstorms were more randomized in time, but that's all.
Jungle Hell is hell, but it is also challenging. I have to be more careful in that scenario because I can get jumped out of the jungle.
Jungle Hell is hell, but it is also challenging. I have to be more careful in that scenario because I can get jumped out of the jungle.
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles
If I find the time and motivation, I will give some more in-depth thoughts on items, but I feel like the amount of different items is currently too high.
In short: There are a lot of items which are completely obsolete or barely situationally useful with others being just straight up better (which wouldn't be a problem except for the crafting part I will get to next). Also it now seems very improbable to even complete a single set (let alone multiple) before a long and boring grind in Inferno (I am currently at the beginning of chapter 8 and the set I have the most items of is Eidolons - and there I have more breastplates (5) than all the other slots (3 all together in 2 slots!) combined), which again wouldn't be a problem except for the fact, that a lot of set items fall into the barely situationally useful category before you get the (almost) completed set (and in the case of Cunctators I'd hazard it's just always a mistake to equip that set...).
Crafting: If crafted items are not situational but simply stat bundles, they can very easily round out gears [which might be a good thing] but they also push down all other items with worse stats down the tier list [which isn't a good thing IMHO]. This is not a problem for price-heavy items, but the cheaper they come, the more problematic this gets. I think nerfing Lightning Agility for the high-movement-low-cost item was a step in the right direction, but Nighwalker falls into the same trap only much, much worse. It's incredibly cheap and has very strong stats. I currently run it on more than half my units.
I'd suggest one of three nerfs:
a) increase price and remove movement speed [result: boring but useful resistance bundle]
b) increase price and nerf resistances [result: simple alternative to Lightning Agility]
c) heavily increase the price [I don't think the item itself is a problem, but I'd put it somewhere in the price category of The Godless]
In short: There are a lot of items which are completely obsolete or barely situationally useful with others being just straight up better (which wouldn't be a problem except for the crafting part I will get to next). Also it now seems very improbable to even complete a single set (let alone multiple) before a long and boring grind in Inferno (I am currently at the beginning of chapter 8 and the set I have the most items of is Eidolons - and there I have more breastplates (5) than all the other slots (3 all together in 2 slots!) combined), which again wouldn't be a problem except for the fact, that a lot of set items fall into the barely situationally useful category before you get the (almost) completed set (and in the case of Cunctators I'd hazard it's just always a mistake to equip that set...).
Crafting: If crafted items are not situational but simply stat bundles, they can very easily round out gears [which might be a good thing] but they also push down all other items with worse stats down the tier list [which isn't a good thing IMHO]. This is not a problem for price-heavy items, but the cheaper they come, the more problematic this gets. I think nerfing Lightning Agility for the high-movement-low-cost item was a step in the right direction, but Nighwalker falls into the same trap only much, much worse. It's incredibly cheap and has very strong stats. I currently run it on more than half my units.
I'd suggest one of three nerfs:
a) increase price and remove movement speed [result: boring but useful resistance bundle]
b) increase price and nerf resistances [result: simple alternative to Lightning Agility]
c) heavily increase the price [I don't think the item itself is a problem, but I'd put it somewhere in the price category of The Godless]
Under blood-red skies, an old man sits
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.
Re: Legend of the Invincibles
This is related to some of our reworks and that part of code probably looks quite different now.StellarStar wrote: ↑February 21st, 2019, 10:08 am This happend when my elvish assaissn leveled up on the AIs turn
The demons were intentionally made difficult. There used to be more of them, but I replaced like a half of them with flies, living statues and other stuff.white_haired_uncle wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2019, 12:39 amPart two on easy was anything but (for me). When I first played it some months ago, I quit because I thought it was just stupidly insanely nasty, because....
.Spoiler:
I have already mentioned that there should be less enemies and more items at the start of chapter 10. So you support this idea, I assume?
You simply have to explore all portals. The correct portal is always the last one. The enemies are quite trivial, so you should try to rush into as many portals as possible.white_haired_uncle wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2019, 12:39 am Near the end there's a level with lots of portals. I'm not sure if it is possible to complete. Not that it's hard, I just couldn't find a way out after I had cleared everything.
The randomness of drops is very important for replayability. New game means new assortment of items you get. You will always have some number of good ones and it's up to your creativity what you make of them.white_haired_uncle wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2019, 12:39 am 1) More focus on crafting, less on dumb luck. I'd rather have items harder to come by, but have my choice of which items to acquire.
There's going to be a remake of the inventory manipulation user interface, so some improvements of this type will be quite doable.white_haired_uncle wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2019, 12:39 am 2) A submenu that shows the "special" (the ones that combine with others) items that you possess, along with their location, listed by group. Later in the game it becomes hard to track all that stuff to make sure you're making the best usage thereof. If not, at least making the naming conventions consistent would be a big help (most of them, like the King or Dark items are, but stuff like the Cloak of the Pale Rider and the Angel's Ring???).
However, what is inconsistent between Cloak of the Pale Rider and Angel of Death's Ring? Both are related to Grim Reaper pretty obviously.
Do you happen to have a save file where it happens?Whiskeyjack wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2019, 7:53 pmBug report: I restarted episode II and got a staff drop in scenario one. When Lethalia picked up her staff in scenario two she did not drop the first one to the floor (so she kept both staves). Free 40% magic damage + some resistances is quite a big boost. Also, one of my recruited undead received the "loyal" thingy around its health bar but did not have the trait.
He was supposed to lose those potion effects already when he advanced to Sergeant. Now I am starting to get where the error is.SerinoKing wrote: ↑February 27th, 2019, 3:49 am I love this game haha I have one problem tho. I gave Mario the unholy Hunger potion. I got him to around 225 hp. When he became Duke, he still had that. On next scenario, When defending Ogria again, he was down to 90!! Can I get this fixed?
As you have surely seen, this campaign has a large variety of scenarios. Some of them are somewhat controversial, liked by some, hated by others. I have reworked some of the more hated ones, but these two don't seem to be particularly unpopular.StellarStar wrote: ↑February 28th, 2019, 5:25 pm The scenarios "Arctic Wastelands" and "Jungle Hell" are not fun. They are boring and tedious. It should be only the group spawns, or endless units not both- And the Demons should not be able to cross the terrain that is literally named impassable, unless Lethalia and Efraim could do it as well.
I am running a poll on popularity of crafting recipes. Maybe I could do the same about item sets afterwards? The beta has code that allows having set effects that require only a certain number of items from the set rather than just requiring specific items. Do you think that could help with the difficulty to complete item sets? Or I could double the drop chance of items?Whiskeyjack wrote: ↑March 1st, 2019, 10:57 pm In short: There are a lot of items which are completely obsolete or barely situationally useful with others being just straight up better (which wouldn't be a problem except for the crafting part I will get to next). Also it now seems very improbable to even complete a single set (let alone multiple) before a long and boring grind in Inferno (I am currently at the beginning of chapter 8 and the set I have the most items of is Eidolons - and there I have more breastplates (5) than all the other slots (3 all together in 2 slots!) combined), which again wouldn't be a problem except for the fact, that a lot of set items fall into the barely situationally useful category before you get the (almost) completed set (and in the case of Cunctators I'd hazard it's just always a mistake to equip that set...).
Btw, has someone figured out the story told by the lines below items in Eidolon's set?
I think I have buffed it because it was very unpopular. Recently. It seems I overdid it. I have nerfed the resists. I am afraid not to make it too weak again.Whiskeyjack wrote: ↑March 1st, 2019, 10:57 pm Crafting: If crafted items are not situational but simply stat bundles, they can very easily round out gears [which might be a good thing] but they also push down all other items with worse stats down the tier list [which isn't a good thing IMHO]. This is not a problem for price-heavy items, but the cheaper they come, the more problematic this gets. I think nerfing Lightning Agility for the high-movement-low-cost item was a step in the right direction, but Nighwalker falls into the same trap only much, much worse. It's incredibly cheap and has very strong stats. I currently run it on more than half my units.
I'd suggest one of three nerfs:
a) increase price and remove movement speed [result: boring but useful resistance bundle]
b) increase price and nerf resistances [result: simple alternative to Lightning Agility]
c) heavily increase the price [I don't think the item itself is a problem, but I'd put it somewhere in the price category of The Godless]
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles
Possibly. I don't know what the "right" answer would be, but at least some of the junior units should be allowed to live long enough to advance.
After a couple dozen turns with all portals seen (not necessarily visited, I didn't track it on paper or anything), I gave one unit 1000 MP and just ran around randomly. I never found the way out.Dugi wrote: ↑March 4th, 2019, 9:18 pmYou simply have to explore all portals. The correct portal is always the last one. The enemies are quite trivial, so you should try to rush into as many portals as possible.white_haired_uncle wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2019, 12:39 am Near the end there's a level with lots of portals. I'm not sure if it is possible to complete. Not that it's hard, I just couldn't find a way out after I had cleared everything.
For me, replayability is about trying new strategies, such as distributing XP and items widely vs building up a core team of superheroes. If there's a lot of randomness, it's not really possible to determine whether an better/worse outcome is due to a superior/inferior strategy or just luck.Dugi wrote: ↑March 4th, 2019, 9:18 pmThe randomness of drops is very important for replayability. New game means new assortment of items you get. You will always have some number of good ones and it's up to your creativity what you make of them.white_haired_uncle wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2019, 12:39 am 1) More focus on crafting, less on dumb luck. I'd rather have items harder to come by, but have my choice of which items to acquire.
I'm not sure if those are obvious or not to people who have some familiarity with the GR mythology. I would have guessed they were references to Clint Eastwood westerns (something I'm also not familiar with).Dugi wrote: ↑March 4th, 2019, 9:18 pmThere's going to be a remake of the inventory manipulation user interface, so some improvements of this type will be quite doable.white_haired_uncle wrote: ↑February 22nd, 2019, 12:39 am 2) A submenu that shows the "special" (the ones that combine with others) items that you possess, along with their location, listed by group. Later in the game it becomes hard to track all that stuff to make sure you're making the best usage thereof. If not, at least making the naming conventions consistent would be a big help (most of them, like the King or Dark items are, but stuff like the Cloak of the Pale Rider and the Angel's Ring???).
However, what is inconsistent between Cloak of the Pale Rider and Angel of Death's Ring? Both are related to Grim Reaper pretty obviously.
Speak softly, and carry Doombringer.
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Re: Legend of the Invincibles
See attached file - Lethalia already has Staff of Crelanu. Now move her south-west so she gets into range of her staff. Had 100% reproducibility for me.
Edit: I just realized you might mean the loyal thing - I have no save for that one, could only look for a replay if that helps?
Set bonuses, e.g. for completing (2) or (4) items or the like sound really nice and would be an improvement IMHO. I think two things should be kept in mind for a redesign though:Dugi wrote: ↑March 4th, 2019, 9:18 pmI am running a poll on popularity of crafting recipes. Maybe I could do the same about item sets afterwards? The beta has code that allows having set effects that require only a certain number of items from the set rather than just requiring specific items. Do you think that could help with the difficulty to complete item sets? Or I could double the drop chance of items?
a) In a select few cases only taking a few items of a set is already useful (e.g., because you have a really strong item for other slot(s) and/or the bonuses are of no use to you (hp)).
b) More importantly, a couple very strong bonuses are slot-gated, especially in case of the sets giving bonus base attacks (Sceptre of the King and possibly (?) the Darkness set - only have the gloves right now). This should balance-wise be kept in mind (e.g., Kings only giving the second base attack for full set or something like that).
Also: Sometimes a single item has massive drawbacks (again: Armour of the Kings (-2 mp)). If I just took Crown and Ring of that set and got the basic attack (which I currently get via Armour + Crown) the bonus would be detached from the drawback.
Edit: Another thing that just came to mind [though I haven't fully thought this through]: Having set bonuses attached to number of items of a set might allow to add some more weapon variety to sets - a lot of them are bound to swords, but with such a system a set might, e.g., have a sword, a dagger, and a hammer [just examples, the only unit that comes to mind able to (ab)use this is Paladin via White Mage], so that more units can have access to sets besides Gloomy, Wisdom, and Grim Reaper.
About acquiring sets: My thoughts went more in a deterministic direction: Currently (on hard, so more enemies = more drops, to be transparent) I get so many item drops that items hidden on the map are a drop in the ocean (except very early on) and don't matter much. The only reason I actually bother to pick the out-of-the-way ones up is that I'm playing LotI too completionistic. Changing some of them to forced set drops would help in a big way and also make looking for hidden items meaningful again.
Also: When Beelzebub was first implemented I pretty much always got 2-4 set items from him and I feel like the impact of the increased item number can be felt especially heavy here - I reloaded my last kill on him >10 times and usually got 1 set drop (which is especially annoying if it's yet another Eidolons Armour ). This might again be due to statistical differences, so take it with a grain of salt, but killing him certainly felt way less impactful than in the last versions I played. So I'd also suggest having him drop ~2 items from the set item pool automatically.
Another edit: Though I just realized that might also have been part one, where I got a lot more drops of, e.g., the Wisdom set - IIRC there are items only available in part II, which might further influence the % of set item drops!?
If I ever get the time I'll also look through the list of items and take a look at item identities. One example where I think item changes (or even removal of one) might be necessitated would be with the amulets Black Widow and Demon Core which are pretty much the same [useless filler, I might add] items (at least on hard) after the suck nerfs, while one of them (Demon Core, I think) was a very strong item beforehand.
Thinking on it again, I'd actually have preferred option c) the most as I quite like the item, but you are right, stat sticks that do not have any other special uses do need their oomph
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Under blood-red skies, an old man sits
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.
In the ruins of Carthage - contemplating prophecy.
Re: Legend of the Invincibles
I had the idea of taking a bunch of random item drops and making them specific set items. This has the virtue of being easy. I also wanted to add extra story flavor to each drop, but I haven't managed to do that. I'll go ahead and post this now without the attempts at extra story text.
In the below section, when a specific item is listed on the right, my idea is to replace the random drop with that specific item. They are heavily weighted towards rings, amulets and cloaks, because those are the hardest to find. I also didn't put in everything - this just makes completing sets more likely.
Sets
Part II shop items
Part II fixed drops
Part II random drops