Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.1 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Do you want this add-on on 1.14 NOW before After the Storm is ready?

Poll ended at June 14th, 2018, 5:59 am

Yes
7
32%
Hell YES
15
68%
Nah
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 22

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Re: Invasion from the Unknown [Wesnoth 1.12 + experimental 1.14 version]

Post by shadowm » June 7th, 2018, 6:03 am

I finished playtesting IftU on Wesnoth 1.14 and I think I’ve got all of the game-breaking bugs sorted out. Things went far more smoothly than I expected, so good job mainline devs. 👍

So, with that said, I’m debating the possibility of pushing IftU into the 1.14 add-ons server before AtS is ready. Opinions?
(There’s also now a poll on this topic concerning this subject.)
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown [Wesnoth 1.12 + experimental 1.14 version]

Post by Konrad2 » June 7th, 2018, 12:52 pm

Looks like we are having a hard time deciding. xD
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown [Wesnoth 1.12 + experimental 1.14 version]

Post by ForestDragon » June 7th, 2018, 12:56 pm

Konrad2 wrote:
June 7th, 2018, 12:52 pm
Looks like we are having a hard time deciding. xD
indeed.
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown [Wesnoth 1.12 + experimental 1.14 version]

Post by Zhou » June 9th, 2018, 12:51 am

I just finished part 1, so here's some feedback, some scenario specific some overall and some not specifically related to the 1.14 version. I hope I'm not just repeating stuff that's already been said:
Spoiler:
That's all I found/wanted to suggest, once I'm done with the second part I'll probably have some more stuff!

Also I wanted to thank you for making this campaign and sticking with it for so long, since I grew up with this game and IftU and AtS were a big part of that.
So uhmm ... thanks! ^_^
slightly confused

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Re: Invasion from the Unknown [Wesnoth 1.12 + experimental 1.14 version]

Post by shadowm » June 9th, 2018, 3:21 am

Okay, let me address the things I can actually handle myself first:
Zhou wrote:
June 9th, 2018, 12:51 am
In scenario 5a, if you killed all the leaders, but haven't picked up the ring yet there is no victory condition, which looks kinda weird and might also confuse some people
I don’t feel that this is too much of an issue to be honest, at least not enough to warrant patching it ASAP. This kind of thing turns out rather clunky in code, so I tend to shy away from special victory condition cases like this.
Zhou wrote:
June 9th, 2018, 12:51 am
In scenario 7, most of the time, the bats just stand (or i guess fly?) around not moving/attacking if they can't reach a good target.
They’re floating XP mini-piñatas. I could easily turn up their aggression but I feel like they would prove too much of a nuisance too early on. The player is expected to deal with far more aggressive and dangerous piñatas hurling themselves at them much later on, after all. ;)
Zhou wrote:
June 9th, 2018, 12:51 am
It would be nice if someone at least acknowledged the worms in the secret cave in scenario 9, since that's the first time the Shaxthal appear and no one in the group has ever seen one before
Quite amusingly, I always try to find that area in my playthroughs and always forget exactly where the trigger is, going as far as walking right past it.

I might consider adding a line about the worms in the future.
Zhou wrote:
June 9th, 2018, 12:51 am
For some reason if you move a unit to an item, but don't pick it up and then move another unit (maybe the moving the same unit there once again works, too) on the item, you can give the item to that unit, even if it's an item not intended for that unit type. I only tested that in scenario 10 and only with the berserk potion though
Actually, I don’t think that this is a general issue, at least based on a couple of tests with a Vampire Bat on the same item. However, it turns out that there is an issue with that particular item being unaware that Elvish Enchantresses in this campaign are not actually Elvish Enchantresses (their internal id is Elvish Enchantress 2), so yeah, I need to fix that little oversight.
Zhou wrote:
June 9th, 2018, 12:51 am
If you select a unit while the screen fades to black you can still see the movement range of the unit while the screen is dark
The units are hidden during fade outs (with only two exceptions). I could store and unstore them, but that would make the code a little bit more complex and interfere with several special cases throughout IftU and AtS where units do actually need to be on the map during these sequences for one reason or another.

Alternatively, I could send a command at the start of these sequences (or really every time {LOCK_VIEW} is used, since that’s the big red flag for most cutscenes) to deselect the current unit, but a quick test reveals that it will not work if the mouse cursor is sitting on the unit.
Zhou wrote:
June 9th, 2018, 12:51 am
There seems to be some inconsistency about whether Malin's minions can talk on their own or he has to talk for them
Well, Nightgaunts are actually allowed:

Code: Select all

#define UNIT_SPEAKS_FOR_UNDEAD_MINION _FALLBACK_SUF
    [fallback_if]
        race=bats,undead
        [not]
            type=Lich,Death Knight,Death Baron,Draug,Revenant,Deathblade,Bone Shooter,Banebow,Wraith,Spectre,Shadow,Nightgaunt
        [/not]
    [/fallback_if]
    [fallback_to]
        {_FALLBACK_SUF}
    [/fallback_to]
#enddef
And yes, there are a few situations where Mal Keshar will speak for them regardless. I believe most of those are intentional and a few even have special text from him. It should be okay as long as no units other than the ones listed above speak.
Zhou wrote:
June 9th, 2018, 12:51 am
Is there any reason for the Automatons to have a 6-2 defend only attack, that's just strictly worse than their regular attack?
An oversight dating as far back as 2007. I haven’t decided what to do about it yet.



Now, the issues that are kind of beyond my control right now:
Zhou wrote:
June 9th, 2018, 12:51 am
The volume of the ambient camp fire (in 1+2) and the cave sounds in later scenarios resets every time you load one of those scenarios. Changing the sound effect volume fixes it, but it's still kinda annoying to have to do that every time you load into a new scenario. This might be a bug with the game itself though and I don't really know any other campaigns that uses that type of ambient sound, so I'm not really sure how to test that further
Yeah, this is a bug in the game I’m afraid (I can’t control the volume of sound sources myself). I’ll see if I can fix it for 1.14.3, but otherwise it’s probably going to end up postponed until 1.14.4 since I believe I’m pretty much the only mainline developer who is aware of the existence of sound sources right now.
Zhou wrote:
June 9th, 2018, 12:51 am
In 12x_Outside, at high resolutions you can see the edges of the map
I could either make the map bigger (not ideal and also won’t cover all cases, e.g. zooming out or running on larger screens) or use shroud around the bottom edge (easy). Or just ignore it. It’s a consequence of the implementation of the cave wall terrains if I remember correctly, and I’m not sure if it can even be fixed without breaking other things. I’ll prod a dev to see what they think anyway.



And finally, on the subject of touchplates and other event triggers...

A lot of people were not happy with my decision of removing Elvish Sylphs since they liked using those to speed through the game to the detriment of long-term strategy. There are also many people who like the story or hate the story and like the overall gameplay, but hate the long dungeon crawl-style scenarios. I feel like making it harder to trigger certain events by excluding certain types of units, especially the Ghost line (the favourite of speedrunners) would make both groups even more unhappy and not bring any new challenges to the table, so to speak — at least as long as making gameplay slower isn’t considered a challenge.

Personally, I don’t usually cheese scenarios in my campaigns unless I’m really in a hurry for some specific reason. It is doable and some people (*cough* nemaara *cough*) have gone to great lengths to master the art of running through scenarios like a cheetah on caffeine. I have also made a couple of minor changes in the past in a half-hearted attempt to mitigate (but not fully prevent) those tactics.

All in all, I don’t think I will restrict who can activate glyphs, touchplates and the like, except where it’s absolutely required for plot reasons. I may consider making it so the activating unit loses its remaining movement for the turn, but I’m a bit wary of causing newcomers to make grave tactical missteps as a result, since there is no way to hint in the UI that a non-combat action will result in a unit’s movement coming to a halt, getting status effects applied on it, etc.


Zhou wrote:
June 9th, 2018, 12:51 am
Also I wanted to thank you for making this campaign and sticking with it for so long, since I grew up with this game and IftU and AtS were a big part of that.
So uhmm ... thanks! ^_^
Thanks for the feedback and testing the experimental snapshot! It’s very appreciated! 💜
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown [Wesnoth 1.12 + experimental 1.14 version]

Post by ForestDragon » June 9th, 2018, 6:20 am

shadowm wrote:
June 7th, 2018, 6:03 am
An oversight dating as far back as 2007. I haven’t decided what to do about it yet.
My advice would probably be removing the defend-only attack entirely. After all, most mainline units who wield shields don't actually use them as attacks, and the attack itself feels redundant (if it was changed to something like 9-1, at least it would have some uniqueness).
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown [Wesnoth 1.12 + experimental 1.14 version]

Post by Sadaharu » June 10th, 2018, 7:53 pm

shadowm wrote:
June 7th, 2018, 6:03 am
So, with that said, I’m debating the possibility of pushing IftU into the 1.14 add-ons server before AtS is ready. Opinions?
I'm not sure how that would affect dependencies. Perhaps you ought to look into that.

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Re: Invasion from the Unknown [Wesnoth 1.12 + experimental 1.14 version]

Post by shadowm » June 10th, 2018, 8:44 pm

It wouldn’t affect anything at all. IftU doesn’t depend on AtS and AtS doesn’t depend on IftU (code-wise).
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Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by shadowm » June 11th, 2018, 7:28 am

IftU version 2.1.0 and IftU Music version 0.3.1 are out now on the 1.14 add-ons server!

So yeah, I guess it’s time for me to say profound things again since it’s become tradition for these major releases.

When I started writing Invasion from the Unknown back in 2007, I had absolutely no idea what I was doing. I just wanted to write a fun campaign (and put Elynia’s first sprite to use) and write a wacky story combining a few ideas I came up with over the years, as well as a few things from Wesnoth that I just found to be cool back then (insert a Mal Keshar oneliner here).

I just had no idea how to write a campaign, to be honest. I began to realize that as I started work on After the Storm and gradually learned to see just how shaky a foundation I was trying to write on. Time went on, AtS’ development suffered an extended hiatus, eventually I snapped back to reality, AtS Episode 1 was completed at the end of 2011, later Episode 2 in 2012, and eventually Episode 3 (which wasn’t even part of the original plan and was supposed to be the AtS sequel) in 2013. Then I took it upon myself to “rewrite” IftU and bring it up to my new quality standards. It’d be years before I would finally complete that vision of the “new” IftU (codenamed Reconstruction) and version 2.0.0 would be released for Wesnoth 1.12.

I’ll be honest here. I was not planning on coming back to Wesnoth once 2016 was over. But time and again I’m reminded of how important IftU and AtS became to many people, including myself, and I feel some regret for wanting to part ways with the game and my campaigns. Because in a way, it was through my work on both (and their unpublished predecessors), and Wesnoth itself, that I learned many things about myself and others, and found several people who against all expectations I’ve come to regard as close friends.

So here we are now.

Version 2.1.0 does not bring any game-changers to the table (unlike version 2.0.1, which reminds me by the way that no-one’s commented on those AMLAs yet) but it is the first step in bringing these campaigns back to life now that Wesnoth is available to a larger audience on Steam. It was a lot of work, although still far less than I feared it would be. The development team have done a great job with Wesnoth 1.14 and they have kindly assisted me with many of the bugs I and others encountered while playtesting IftU on the new stable branch. As for me, I have also contributed a few fixes of my own back to mainline, which is pretty much exactly how my long journey as a Wesnoth developer started back in 2007. I have always striven for serving the community’s best interests through my work, and I intend to continue to do so for as long as I can. 💜

And now, with the soppy crap out of the way, a few caveats:
  • Wesnoth 1.13.12 through 1.14.1 are technically supported, but I strongly discourage using them, since there are a few fixes in versions 1.14.2 and 1.14.3 that arose from bugs I and others found while playtesting IftU.
  • If you have the old IftU Music add-on somehow (either because you copied over your add-ons from 1.12, or used the link I provided for the experimental snapshot before), you will need to upgrade to version 0.3.1 in order to get a track used by a late scenario.
  • There are still a few engine bugs affecting the campaign.
Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 and the upcoming After the Storm 0.10.0 release (coming at some point in 2018 I’m pretty sure, yes) now make use of the shared Naia library to reduce code duplication and keep the core set of units, assets, WML/Lua code, and translations synchronized between both. In the past I’ve run into multiple situations where IftU and AtS disagree on certain aspects (e.g. the Blood Imp’s baseframe and the door units’ implementation), making it harder for me to deliver bug fixes and features in a consistent and reliable fashion.

As a side-effect of the modularization of the codebase, IftU and AtS have to ship their own snapshot of Naia under <add-on name>/Naia, with its own changelog and translations and stuff. And the point I’m trying to get at, is that hopefully translators will be able to do less work moving forward since about 360 strings of varying complexity, ranging from UI elements to unit descriptions and names, are now shared. I will make sure to publish instructions for translators in the upcoming days and let you all know how to proceed in that regard.

Finally, I would like to specially thank Vultraz, Nemaara, and Konrad2 for their invaluable assistance in making this port possible. Without them, this would probably not have been released until July at the earliest. And also thanks for everyone who’s stuck around for this long (almost 11 years) and posted feedback on my campaigns and eagerly awaited their return to the Wesnoth add-ons server. I hope to not let you down again and that AtS 0.10.0 will finally become available at some point before August.

The complete changelog for this version of IftU follows:

Code: Select all

Version 2.1.0:
--------------
* General:
  * Wesnoth 1.14 support implememented, raising the minimum version requirement
    to Wesnoth 1.13.12 (Wesnoth 1.15.x is *not* supported yet). Some large
    chunks of code (in particular FOREACH loops) were rewritten in the
    process.
  * Shared units, assets, code, and translations are now part of the Naia
    library, also used by AtS version 0.10.0 and later.

* Language and i18n:
  * Removed empty Dutch translation.

* Music:
  * Added Aleksi's gameplay06.ogg to IftU Music 0.3.1.

* Scenarios:
  * General:
    * Revised a few maps to use 1.14 terrains.
    * The old IftU/AtS gates have been replaced with the new mainline gates.
      Special event gates are now recolored mainline rusty gates. While the
      open version does exist, it's not currently used since event gates are
      handled as barriers that get completely removed by scenarios.
    * Added wall moss overlays from Naia/AtS to hive maps.
    * Unit loyalty in boss/finale scenarios is now controlled using temporary
      or permanent [object] modifications instead of direct attribute
      manipulation, as the latter causes issues in 1.14. The same applies to
      the hidden loyal trait for special characters such as Mal Keshar,
      Anlindë, and Elynia (issue #27).
  * S2 - A Real Confrontation:
    * Lédinor's supporter now starts with 0 moves and outside his castle (see
      issue #29).
  * S7 - Goliath:
    * Removed demon embedded in a wall (issue #36).
    * Kill all Automaton-line units at the same time at the end (issue #36).
  * S10 - The Source of Light:
    * Disallow IftU's special brand of Elvish Enchantress from using the
      Berserker Potion, for what little good it does.
  * S13 - Face Your Fate:
    * Dwarvish Ulfserkers can no longer be recruited once the Warlord arrives
      (issue #44).
  * S20 - The Heart:
    * Unhide side 6 as its leader arrives to the battlefield after turn 1
      (issue #54).
  * S23A - Into the Lair:
    * Now using Aleksi's gameplay06.ogg as the initial track.
  * S23B - Until Death:
    * Using mainline's frantic.ogg during the last part of stage 1.
    * Fixed issues with team color ellipses when Galas gets possessed during
      stage 1 (issue #60).
  * S24 - Epilogue:
    * Minor music and UI tweaks.

* Units:
  * Balancing:
    * Elynia's Thorns I base damage increased by 1 (9-3), Thorns II increase by
      2 instead of 1 (fully upgraded total is now 11-3).
  * Synced descriptions with AtS for a few units that were somehow not already
    synced between IftU 2.0.1 and AtS 0.9.17+.
  * Fixed female Elvish Civilian making male sounds when hit (not killed).
  * Staff-wielding units use the new staff sounds in 1.14.
The complete changelog for the included version of Naia follows:

Code: Select all

Version 20180611:
-----------------
* General:
  * Initial version with Wesnoth 1.14 support.
  * Dropped compatibility with Wesnoth versions prior to 1.13.11.

* Language and i18n:
  * Updated French translation from newfrenchy83 (core set extracted from
    AtS).
  * Merged translations of the core set from IftU and AtS: Spanish, French,
    Hungarian, Italian, Japanese, Russian, Turkish.

* Lua and WML library:
  * Replaced the AtS implementation of [setup_doors] with its IftU counterpart,
    with minor code improvements and the addition of the AtS requirement for
    target locations to be vacant. Otherwise, the semantics of the AtS
    implementation break IftU S22A and possibly others that require a custom
    SLF.
  * [setup_doors] and the Door unit support the new Gate terrains from 1.14.
  * [unstore_unit] male/female_text is used where needed instead of the clunky
    checks and variable assignments used before.
  * Patch [change_theme] crash on 1.14.1 and earlier when theme= is not
    specified.
  * Standard macros no longer use FOREACH.

* Terrains:
  * Event gates are now implemented as recolored mainline Rusy Gates. The open
    variations are currently unused since event gates are normally handled as
    barriers that get instantly removed.
  * Included wall moss terrain from AtS for use in IftU 2.1.0.

* Units:
  * Added faerie race icon by LordBob.
  * Set unit bars offset for the Matrix Flow System.
  * Use the new 1.14 staff sounds for staff-wielding units.
  * Set the Chaos Hound line's undead variation to wolf (IftU issue #34).
  * Simplified implementation of Terror and Protection abilities.

* User interface library:
  * Scenario title cards use a larger font size to compensate for the increased
    UI font sizes in 1.14.
  * Improved experimental version and bugcheck dialogs, including a link to the
    campaign's forum thread or tracker URL as applicable.
  * Bugcheck dialogs use monospace text for the details section.
Have fun! 💜
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by Konrad2 » June 11th, 2018, 8:35 am

shadowm wrote:
June 11th, 2018, 7:28 am

There are still a few engine bugs affecting the campaign.
It's cool to see that only my issues are still open. :D Makes me proud. ^^

shadowm wrote:
June 11th, 2018, 7:28 am
Finally, I would like to specially thank Vultraz, Nemaara, and Konrad2 for their invaluable assistance in making this port possible. Without them, this would probably not have been released until July at the earliest. And also thanks for everyone who’s stuck around for this long (almost 11 years) and posted feedback on my campaigns and eagerly awaited their return to the Wesnoth add-ons server. I hope to not let you down again and that AtS 0.10.0 will finally become available at some point before August.
Now you are making me teary-eyed. >.< Thanks to you for sticking around and putting so much work into it. I'm looking forward to AtS. :)
(As I said before, I'll probably not replay the new IftU version, as there are no ground shaking changes. But I dare say that most issues have already been reported. ^^)
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by VYNLT » June 11th, 2018, 11:46 am

Congrats on the update! Glad to see this great campaign back. Can't wait to do another playthrough of this and ATS once the latter comes out.

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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by Losthunter » June 11th, 2018, 2:52 pm

Great! Maybe I should play this campaing once again? (Thanks for all hard work with bringing this awesome campaing to 1.14)

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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by Zhou » June 11th, 2018, 3:38 pm

It's happening, Congrats! It's pretty crazy to think about how far this thing has come. :shock:
shadowm wrote:
June 11th, 2018, 7:28 am
which reminds me by the way that no-one’s commented on those AMLAs yet
Since no one else seems to want to do it, guess I'll do the honors then:
Spoiler:
slightly confused

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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by ForestDragon » June 11th, 2018, 6:36 pm

Zhou wrote:
June 11th, 2018, 3:38 pm
[*]backstab for Galas, because foreshadowing (also other weapon specials in general)
Backstab would probably be nice as an extra attack (something around 12-2 or 8-3 base damage), instead of adding the special to the main one (9-4 melee with backstab at lvl3 is not exactly balanced, to say the least, especially for an AMLA). Btw, here are some Galas amla ideas of mine:
-Bolas: new 6-2 impact ranged attack with slow. (after all, his current sprite is clearly holding a bolas, and the slow special should make him a good deal more viable for actual combat, instead of him being little more than a lvl3 leader that is somewhat like a downgrade of Elvish Champion)
-Leadership: possibly a weakened version compared to the default ability, with something along the lines of 15% damage bonus per level difference. This should make Galas actually feel like the Galas from IftU.
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Re: Invasion from the Unknown 2.1.0 [Wesnoth 1.14]

Post by Konrad2 » June 11th, 2018, 7:09 pm

ForestDragon wrote:
June 11th, 2018, 6:36 pm
Zhou wrote:
June 11th, 2018, 3:38 pm
[*]backstab for Galas, because foreshadowing (also other weapon specials in general)
Backstab would probably be nice as an extra attack (something around 12-2 or 8-3 base damage), instead of adding the special to the main one (9-4 melee with backstab at lvl3 is not exactly balanced, to say the least, especially for an AMLA). Btw, here are some Galas amla ideas of mine:
-Bolas: new 6-2 impact ranged attack with slow. (after all, his current sprite is clearly holding a bolas, and the slow special should make him a good deal more viable for actual combat, instead of him being little more than a lvl3 leader that is somewhat like a downgrade of Elvish Champion)
-Leadership: possibly a weakened version compared to the default ability, with something along the lines of 15% damage bonus per level difference. This should make Galas actually feel like the Galas from IftU.
I'm pretty sure that we are still talking about IftU AMLAS.
It might be nice though for Galas to make his Unit type transition in IftU already instead of AtS.

EDIT: That would make a good reason to replay IftU. :D
Last edited by Konrad2 on June 11th, 2018, 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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