nuke them please!

[quartex]

Undead are overpowered. If people start learning to use them better, they will effectively be more overpowered.

Shhhh! Don't let out the secret. If people keep thinking undead are weak, then you can keep beating overconfidant with no one the wiser.

[DoT]

acctually elvish pillage i always looked at ur posts of undead being overpowered as BULL SHIX .. except now i see it in a different light =).. there not that over powered though .. not super overpowered...

[scott]

They have been balanced over time. The ghost used to have many more HP, the bat cost 2 gold less, etc. I think the necromancer should get 50% holy weakness, though.

[pg]

there not that over powered though .. not super overpowered...

One word: wraith.

[quartex]

I'm not so sure pg. Wraiths have been nerfed a bit recently. They lost the ability to drail hp beyond their maximum hp, and their resistance to blades and pierce has been decreased by 20% (while their hp has been increased by 10%). The weakened drain and the lower resistances may make them easier to kill. I've found that they are especially succeptable to mages and archers. They're still powerful, but not invincible. After all, they only have 25 hit points.

[Elvish_Pillager]

The ghost used to have many more HP

At which point it was weaker than it is now...

I think the necromancer should get 50% holy weakness, though.

I don't. Why would it have that?

[scott]

To ease the transition from dark adept having 0 and the Lich having 100 without needing to create another line of units. The fact that the necromancer can be mostly human but start to develop an aversion to holiness through his association with evil magic makes sense to me.

[turin]

To ease the transition from dark adept having 0 and the Lich having 100 without needing to create another line of units. The fact that the necromancer can be mostly human but start to develop an aversion to holiness through his association with evil magic makes sense to me.

But then we STILL have the problem of a unit getting worse when advancing; "easing into it" doesn't help matters.

[scott]

We might just have to suck it up as an exception.

As long as 1. the adept is human and 2. it advances to the Lich this won't change. You can split the lines into 2: a black human mage line and a minion-necro-lich line, but this one case of getting worse when leveling doesn't bother me. While it may be an important principle, it's not axiomatic.

[SaintDust]

i use the crushers and burners against the undead.
the crushers can easily take out an adept.

[turin]

We might just have to suck it up as an exception.

As long as 1. the adept is human and 2. it advances to the Lich this won't change. You can split the lines into 2: a black human mage line and a minion-necro-lich line, but this one case of getting worse when leveling doesn't bother me. While it may be an important principle, it's not axiomatic.

I think we should just split the line at level 2; have Adept -> Necromancer -> Lich OR Human-evil-mage-unit

[scott]

I remember the proposal, but the problem is one line still gets worse. The Paladin gets worse by a couple of damage points, but this is a lot weaker against holy damage. Although, it's not as much of a problem as the Paladin because holy damage is rarer than holy resistance.

[turin]

I remember the proposal, but the problem is one line still gets worse.

No one has a problem with one line getting worse. The problem is when both lines get worse. It makes it so no matter what you do, you will have situations where you would want to just keep the downgrade and not advance instead of advancing into either of the advancements.

The Paladin gets worse by a couple of damage points, but this is a lot weaker against holy damage. Although, it's not as much of a problem as the Paladin because holy damage is rarer than holy resistance.

Any problem, however small, is still a problem, and problems should be fixed unless completely impossible...

[AkitoScorpio]

Actaually I just got done playing a friend of mine with him as drakes and me as Elves.... and I just moped the floor with him..... Then again it was his first time playing so that probbly issnt a factor.

[pg]

I'm not so sure pg.

Well, I don't really follow CVS so maybe all those changes will work.