"Noob" (Isar)

[Deffdapp]

Hi Guys, this is my first post.
To begin with, I'm a casual player, so I know the game quite well tough I'm not that great a player.
Seemingly, I lack some basic knowledge so I'd like you to help me out. As I was playing Isar's Cross today, I got Drakes as fraction on random. In my first turn, I recruited three units (fighter, augur, burner) and spared the forth place. I wanted to wait for the next turn so that I could see which fraction my closer enemy would be so I could spend the last gold on the unit most suited to counter the opponent. However, everyone cried out that the game now already was set; They said I was a bloody noob. I asked them to explain why but they just continued on hating because I "only recruited three units".
I really don't understand why waiting to recruit the forth unit for one turn (as drakes are expensive, more than four aren't possible in the beginning) would have such a devestating impact on the game. Could some experienced player tell me what I'm overlooking in my ignorance?

Sincerly, Deffdapp

[Dugi]

It isn't unwise to recruit only some scouts or other quick units if you don't know what enemy are you facing. If the enemy was for example Loyalists and had a lot of horsemen, archers and spearmen recruited, learning that you'll have to focus on Saurians and recruiting a load of Saurians in the second turn to counter the units they have recruited and can't unrecruit is a huge advantage.

The people who called you noob are probably noobs themselves. Good players don't usually insult other players even if they aren't good, if they actually like the game, they'll enjoy explaining what you do wrong. The only suggestion I can give you here is not to play with people like that. They may be hard to spot, but if you play for some time, eventually you'll learn the names of annoying bums and the names of normal players. Alternatively, don't play multiplayer at all.

[Velensk]

I'd give you two points to consider:

-First: Isars Cross attracts a lot of players that don't have a clue what they're doing (or who wouldn't know what they're doing on any normal style map). You need'nt trust your opponents to have any real justification behind their words. That kind of overblown reaction is likely a result of that.

-Second: Isars Cross is however a very small map where players will be battling for control of the center almost immediately. If you can get control early that makes it much easier to win later, therefore it's ideal to be able to apply as much force as quickly as possible. This is especial so for drakes who are both particularly mobile, and who get a lot of utility out of any unit. It is nice to recruit to counter, but odds are as drakes no matter what you recruit it will be useful against one of your enemies. To give a comparative example about the value of early control: If we were to play a 1vs1 starcraft match on a map which wasn't exceptionally large and each player was given a choice between getting 100 minerals at the start of the game, or 1000 minerals five minutes into the game, the player who chooses the 100 minerals would pretty much always win because it'd never get to the point where the other player would use his minerals as he'd have an army tearing him apart while he has no response.

As a note: Isars Cross in general plays differently than a typical multiplayer match. For example, I'd say the advice about recruiting scouts given above is almost always good in a typical match but I'd skip it while playing Isar in favor of just being able to field versatile solid power.

[Deffdapp]

Thank you two very much for your quick replies. So I wasn't that wrong with my considerations to begin with. It's good to see experienced players helping (relatively) new players. (and boosting my self-esteem. )

I remain gratefully yours Deffdapp

[tekelili]

@Deffdapp: You had good resons for your recruit. Even when it may be a debatablr decision, is not stupid in any sense. One advise: Use to be direct relation bad-behavior -->lack-of-skill. Playing bad a game without be able to understand why and learn from mistakes, is a quite frustating feeling that improves chances to blame anyone

[Coffee]

Just want to throw in that one non-obvious problem with recruiting 3 units in Isar's cross on turn 1 is that you can't really recruit until turn 3. The problem is that you have 5 villages and recruiting 3 units means that to get the villages on turn 2 requires your leader to move from village to village instead of recruit.

[tekelili]

Just want to throw in that one non-obvious problem with recruiting 3 units in Isar's cross on turn 1 is that you can't really recruit until turn 3. The problem is that you have 5 villages and recruiting 3 units means that to get the villages on turn 2 requires your leader to move from village to village instead of recruit.

Sides 1 and 2 often dont get all villages until turn 3, despite they recruited 4 units in turn 1. I guess long time passed since your last Isar game

[Anonymissimus]

On Isars, as player 1 or 2, it is often so that village grabbing effectiveness cannot be increased by recruiting 4 units instead of only 3 on the first turn. Underrecruiting is particularly useful if you get a quick unit so that you can move the one from the village in the back into the one near to your primary enemy. Calling underrecruiting noobish right away prooves noobishness on their side. (Those people have never played campaigns on hard me thinks, where you always need to underrecruit heavily.)
So, this gives you a bit more money and perhaps a unit which is better suited for your enemy than what you would have gotten by recruiting 4 in your first turn.

[Battlecruiser_Venca]

But with 3 recrutied units alltrough you've grabbed all the villages by the turn 2, you're vulnerable to rushes 'cause your leader is two turns away from keep (unless some special situations but those are more likely to execute a rush, so they'll never underrecruit) for bringing reinforcements, which may force you to give up a village thus neutrallizing the gain you get by underrecruiting. So I thnik that it's a very risky strategy giving a very small advantage. SO I thnik that it's vialbe only if you know your oppents factions and they have a bad TOD for executing a rush (and you're unable to rush them too)

[Sanae_Kotiya]

I'd think that as long as you have a clear, logical reason for doing whatever you do, you're not a "noob".

[wonderkush]

Can't you move your general after making your first three units to take a village and then on your second turn move him back and recruit again?

[Deffdapp]

As mentioned, it depends on the unit your leader is as well as on the position.
Thanks again for all the helpfull respones.

[fabi]

Let's look at the definition of the term "Noob":
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=noob
It is a person who is not new to the game anymore but still playing weak while also unwilling to learn and blaming others for his failures.

You can't call anyone a Noob you play with (or against) for the first time because it needs investigating a player's behavior over a longer time period.

The problem (not only inside our community) is the fact that the neutral term "Newbie" got forgotten and replaced by the negative co-notated "Noob".
Sadly the negative co-notation of Noob was kept.

Thus we (we as the global society in general) have now a culture of insulting every new or weak player (or whatever the subject is).
There is nothing wrong with playing weak (even if you are not new to the game anymore) as long as you are nice and friendly.

This development makes me sad.

edit: claiming --> blaming

[Battlecruiser_Venca]

Can't you move your general after making your first three units to take a village and then on your second turn move him back and recruit again?

He must be able to do the "triangle" defined by 2 villages and keep. I think that it requires a 6mp leader to do so but either way you need a really quick unit to get the village at the map center. You need a 8 mp unit or 6 mp flyer for that. Next you have to recruit a 6mp unit (assuming 2mp over swamp) to capture village in the swamp (or your leader has to have 1mp over swamp in addition to 6mp which means you're Drake to be able to do the triangle in the swamp).

So this strategy is practically only viable, when you give up the middle village and recruit the rest of units on turn 2 but this requires that you're not a drake.

[Devas]

It isn't unwise to recruit only some scouts or other quick units if you don't know what enemy are you facing.

NOPE, this is Isar's we are speaking about, there is no scouting to be done.

If the enemy was for example Loyalists and had a lot of horsemen, archers and spearmen recruited, learning that you'll have to focus on Saurians and recruiting a load of Saurians in the second turn to counter the units they have recruited and can't unrecruit is a huge advantage.

Unless they efficiently grabbed their villages and gained tactical advantage from having more units earlier.

The people who called you noob are probably noobs themselves. Good players don't usually insult other players even if they aren't good, if they actually like the game, they'll enjoy explaining what you do wrong.

lol... wat... that's it, I'm done reading

The only suggestion I can give you here is not to play with people like that. They may be hard to spot, but if you play for some time, eventually you'll learn the names of annoying bums and the names of normal players. Alternatively, don't play multiplayer at all.

actually I wasn't done reading, but I think I wouldn't have missed anything had I stopped





Velensk said it all.