-= ERA_IVRIM =- gameplay & bugs

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HaChol
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-= ERA_IVRIM =- gameplay & bugs

Post by HaChol » September 27th, 2013, 1:00 am

Hi,
^_^ I just want to adress, that I contributed a new (small yet) era to wesnoth servers 1.10 and 1.11.

It is designed to not draw heavily on magic units and this fantasy style ,but rather on historical inspriations, featuring authentic myth and so forth..

.............................................................................................
I have some new Factions out! The stuff is on wesnoth servers 1.10.x and 1.11.8, now.
... they all can be acessed via the Era_of_Bronze_Age_Clashes where they can be played against each other and the default mainline factions in the wesnoth multi player environment.

I also did issue an adapted vs_Survival mp-campaign, for faction testing purposes.
Now the enemy waves are all default mainline factions and pretty much standard selections.
It is called :
  • Era_of_Bronze_Age_Clashes_vs_Survival
.............................................................................................

This thread should be for feedback on the development of the Ivrim faction, also.
Note: This 1st post will be edited once in a while to keep it's contents up to date.

The Ivrim Factin is included in 0.1.4 release in a new era: default+Ivrim.
Note: This does NOT change the default era in any way.

.. thank you for the feedback!

Ivrim is the name of a Bronze Age ethnic group. It comes from "ivri" meaning from the other side [of the river], ~im being the plural form. Imagine, that they mostly fight with bronze weaponry, for iron is rather expensive, on the eve of the "Bronze Age collapse" (for further information look up the terms).


This new faction has 3 major unit types: fighter, archer, healer ( healer-type that cannot heal but has leadership abilities).
* Additionally, it features:

** golems (mixed fighter) - summoned (kabbalahed) on hexes near to special units, to the cost of x gold at the begining of a turn, expires/needs all movement points
** phoenix-like 'Chol' birds ( scouts ) - these units (lvl0) can be called by special units to the cost of gold at the begining of a turn, expires/needs all movement points


Chol birds can be called, and Golems can be brought into being (kabbalahed) on hexes next to special units to the expense of gold. This faction has no units doing magic but some special units can call (summon) the Chol bird as a scout. Other units can practically kabbalah (animate / bring into being) golems for protection.

This new era Ivrim + defaults is fully playable and may be balanced -at least is designed to be- with the standard mainline factions, but some fine tuning is needed, still.

Enjoy!



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S.: please try it out and leave comments on it's balance, flaws and usability.
P.P.S.:... please see this thread, also: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=39413
samaritan-3_attack.png
A spearman fighter unit - new (2013) graphic contributions by Major
samaritan-3_attack.png (2.99 KiB) Viewed 4468 times
ivri_idle3.png
A ivrim peasant lvl0 the bronze dagger on the belt is animated - drawn prior to an attack (time=0) and the shovel lies on the ground then
ivri_idle3.png (4.08 KiB) Viewed 4468 times
hasmonee-1_defend.png
An archer unit
hasmonee-1_defend.png (2.91 KiB) Viewed 4468 times
rav-4_idle.png
The lvl4 healer (hero) type unit which can "recruit/summon" different golems (small to big) in the field using up gold and all movement points and can heal. Also it can recruit/call a the phoenix-like bird-scout unit , only lvl0, which is called Chol.
rav-4_idle.png (2.63 KiB) Viewed 4468 times
Last edited by HaChol on February 3rd, 2014, 7:12 pm, edited 6 times in total.
The fruit of a righteous man is the tree of life, and the wise man acquires souls.
And I said, I will perish with my nest, and I will multiply days as the chol.

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Delfgahn
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Re: ** New Faction IVRIM New Faction **

Post by Delfgahn » September 27th, 2013, 5:55 am

Its good, I like it, it seems balanced to me, however, I'm not in the know about development, I'm better at combat :lol2:
anyways, good luck with it.

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HaChol
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Re: ** New Faction IVRIM New Faction **

Post by HaChol » September 30th, 2013, 10:22 pm

Hello Delf,

against which units did you test it?
My impression is, that it is inferior against loyalists, northeners, but i just did a local ai game : ai vs ai . In those tests not all the factions abilities are used.
The fruit of a righteous man is the tree of life, and the wise man acquires souls.
And I said, I will perish with my nest, and I will multiply days as the chol.

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sur.nhm
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Re: ** New Faction IVRIM New Faction **

Post by sur.nhm » December 20th, 2013, 1:51 pm

... Seeing transcribed Hebrew in unit names makes me laugh. Related to that, it's 'Khol', not 'Chol'; though, for completeness' sake, just call it 'Of haKhol' and be done (Chol Bird is the same as Of haSand).
Also, mishmash of stuff from Jewish folklore/religious stuff muchly?
I'm not really around any more, but you can find me in TvTropes.

Velensk
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Re: ** New Faction IVRIM New Faction **

Post by Velensk » December 20th, 2013, 2:12 pm

I think that you may want to consider calling them 'support' types rather than calling them healer and then having to explain that they don't actually heal.

If they are based off hebrew legend though, having healer types that aren't Phoenix would be fitting.

AI vs AI testing does not tell you anything useful about balance.

When I have time I'll look into this.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

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Re: ** New Faction IVRIM New Faction **

Post by Velensk » December 20th, 2013, 5:32 pm

Before I start, I'm just going to recommend you check out the guide sticked to the top.
EDIT:Despite what I say, I actually like the idea for a hebrew themed faction and several ideas, it just needs a lot of work.
-It's hard for me to tell you exactly what is wrong as I cannot tell what you're trying to do with this. If you're trying to balance it against mainline then there is a ton and more work to be done. If you're looking to balance it against the other factions in the era it's hard to say as they don't look quite finished yet. Either way here were my impressions in a somewhat organized order.

Game crashes for unknown unit type which I tried to pick the golum as the Ivrim leader.

Golum art does not show because the drectory for the golems still points to the Ivrim art folder.

Loyal trait for Chol bird may make them rough to balance, this even if they wern't super fast unkillable skirmishers. Their crazy resistances on top of normal hp and mobility will make them peerless unstoppable village stealers who'll heal twice as quickly once they're on. Your ABILITY_CHOL illuminates doesn't actually work and it would probably be simpler to just say ABILITY_SKIRMISHER and ABILITY_ILLUMINATES. Also be sure to include a halo for them so that people can easily see the illumination effect.
I think the idea of a faction that all get the healthy trait is kind of neat however what you've done is crazy. First of all: Don't name their trait after a trait that already exists in mainline, second an entire faction of loyal units is stupidly broken. In any large game not having to pay upkeep on units will give a crushing advantage. If forces start to build up in any way that will quickly turn into an extra unit every other turn or there abouts.

What is the purpose of giving the player the option to recruit both the levite Saal and the normal leavite. They fill the exact same role and I don't feel as though having the option to recruit both of them will give the player a very meaningful decision once they figure things out.
Ditto for the Dayans and the Ravs and the slingers. In general the fact that these units also look identical and thus cannot be distinguished at a glance is also pretty annoying and unintuitive.
In General I find the teir-ing of the untis here to be awkward with the two level 1s and the two level 2s thing going. You may find that it would work more effectively to have one level 1 and then two separate branches that each go from level 2 to level 3. On top of being unintuitive (and annoying to have to check every enemy to see which ones are the souped up versions and which aren't) I simply don't see how it adds anything valuable.
While I'm at it, I find it annoying that the abilities are defined in a macro which I have to hunt down in a different file and which essentially say that 'it has these mainline abilities which are already defined in a default macro' which could have been put in the units [abilities] tag in the first place, but this is a coding style thing most people won't see./

Skirmisher is a very strong ability. Your Hassmonee where already very very strong for an archer without it (compare to say the bowman, 8 melee damage, 18 ranged damage, 5 movement you have 12 melee damage, 20 ranged damage and 6 movement all for the same cost, then you give it resistances and skirmisher to boot.

fearless does not mean anything to a neutral unit. Illuminates (once you get it working) also does not help neutral units.

This faction has no normally recruitable scout which will put them behind in any standard village grab especially if they don't get a leader who can summon the scouts.

---I'm going to assume the other two factions are simply incomplete and the samaritans are so incomplete as to not be worth commenting on yet. For the Kedarites:
Cavalry leaders unbalance maps where castle hopping is important.
HorseRaider 7-3 charge for 17 gold with a ranged attack to boot. It does lose a bit of toughness as compared to the mainline horsemen but generally you don't want your horsemen to be in the front line anyway and a basic comparison of damage and cost shows just how much even more scary these things are than horsemen, and they don't even have to charge to attack.
The peasants are going to be a lot stronger than they look having elusive type dodge but no physical weaknesses. Certainly a lot stronger than the Ivrim peasants
Why are the Falcon attacks magical? (especially as right now the Jinns attacks arn't)
Qanas (Quanas?) are going to be increidbly strong having not only scout level mobility, archer level ranged attacks and a decent melee retalation but also good hp and resistances to everything except energy
Giving Skirmisher and melee poison and extra damage to the assassins is gong to merit a lot more than 2 extra gold to the cost even if you lose marksman EDIT: Then to top it off you removed their physical vulnerabilities but kept the defense.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

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HaChol
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Re: ** New Faction IVRIM New Faction **

Post by HaChol » January 20th, 2014, 12:11 pm

Hello dear friends, laydies and gentlemen of the wesnoth realms!

Thank you for all your support. And I will take the advantage to whish all of you a happy new year, many more interesting wesnoth experiances and warmly all the best! :D

Sorry for the late reply, but i did have some hassles in real life. We moved and my laptop crashed and i did lots of artworks and such again...
I will repost a better stable version of my era soon...

As of now (20.Jan.2014) I re-uploaded my faction "The Ivrim" , a more mainline fixed version with some more new artwork and downgradings on all fronts (abilities, values,advancement paths....)
Please have a look or install it ;)

Untill then, good luck, good clean fights and best whishes,... Hachol! :)
The fruit of a righteous man is the tree of life, and the wise man acquires souls.
And I said, I will perish with my nest, and I will multiply days as the chol.

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HaChol
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Re: ** New Faction IVRIM New Faction **

Post by HaChol » January 20th, 2014, 1:14 pm

Dear Velensk!

Thank you for your helpful advise and constructive critiques. :)
As I mentionned, I did read your sticky guide. ^_^
:eng: - recomended read: Guide on designing standard factions/eras
-- http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=34782
But... unfortunately I got into play with all kinds of abilities and overloading my units with special traits and features. :oops:
On the other hand I must try to apologise for that unpleasant behaviour - and ad that I played just to style my units according to give them an alternative look&feel&gamplay. It was not my first intention to make them 'overlords'. And you can do it in different alternative ways (ad resistance, ad movement, ad HP, ad abilitie, ad weapon speacial, ad trait .. ) But I came to the conclusion, which is consens, that less is often more... ^_^

Now to some details:

@1 Yes maybe it would be good to match my faction Era_Ivrim against the new featured faction Khalifate (called Era_Khalifate). And I did some adjustments in this path: I changed alignment to liminal of all human units, to less the damage-impact at day and night - and to make them a natural competititor to the newly featured 'kalifate' faction and such.
@2 Yes I will try now to balace it against mainline!
@3 The chol bird (scout, smallfly, weapon-special:defend only) got alignment chaotic, to make it a natural opposer to the undead and a better protective measure at night against undead and all 'chaotic' foes. And it has a new illumination ability. I customised the generic illimunation ability to a type called 'cholfire' that affects _not_ on self (because alignment is chaotic and the alignment of the human own side units is liminal, hope that works ???).
@4 Skirmisher ability for the Chol bird (scout) should feature the bird quality, because a ground unit naturally cannot hinder a bird to fly in any direction it will -- but it is now accompanied with less HP and less resistances and an attack, wich is only active in denfense, so the bird-scout cannot be use by player as a quick&dirty multipurpose killer or finisher or such...
@5 Trait Healthy: I try to model my units as less impressive and powerful, but sturdy and hard to defeat, so I implemented healthy to all human units, as a customised trait. It is reduced to the rest-heal feature and striped off the extra HP per level (hopefully it works?). So in regard to this they should be like dwarfes but a little less endowed with gifts.
@6 I removed upkeep=loyal totally, I got the message (did not see the _huge_ ingame advantages from it, but tried to express inherent unit character traits.)
@7 I did strip off the advancement-path to the standard 1-2-3 and added alternative paths from lvl2 on and did the new : #ifdef ENABLE_ABIR_ALUF
[advancefrom] ....
for two level 4 and one lvl 5 hero figure, which will not be acessible in standard MP
@8 I did introduce a normal recruitable scout, it's the Chol bird. A second less powerfull type will be acessible via in-menu summoning, though. (can a faction with this feature make it into mainline ??? or like the featured Khalifate faction???)
@9 Removed Skirmisher and fearless from human units and golems.
@10 Concerning the other factions in my Era 'Bronze_Age_Clashes' ... got that point with horse leaders and will; work on it ... they are just not ready and I have to upload a minimal working Era... will do it these days!
@11 The healer units got an alternative advancement path with line a) be defensive and vulnerable and line b) being a little more aggressive fighters (called abir - got that idea from a crazy website, see CREDITS file). My healer units got less HP and less attack damage and this customised weapon-special defense_only (hope that works)
@12 What about the golems? are they too powerful? should i remove the slow and petrify weapon specials from 2nd and 3rd grades? You know my golems can not upgrade to a more powerful new appearance, for they are only tools for protection from clay, so they get old and reduced in movvement points and advance in 1-2-3 grades but remain in their respective level , so lvl1_1golem, lvl1_2golem,lvl1_3golem, _1 to _3 stands for 1fresh/new, 2normal/used and 3used/worn-out . But they develop the features of slowing attack and petrify attack. Maybe it is too powerful??




==General Outline of the 'Era_Ivrim'
My era is planned to be designed as a unique era/faction, which should be
+ less aggressive
+ sturdy and steadfast in general
+ possess attacks which are for defense only (in some units)

= Healers, without magic but with the feature kabbalah, which can create golems out of clay by practical kabbalah for protection. The most vulnerable and less aggressive units. They can call the scout bird called chol on the field.
-- Protective golems (fighters, slow and only with rather weak melee attacks, but can absorbe some damage) should protect the healer units, which are vulnerable and only has attacks with defense_only feature.
= Fighters: are steadfast spearman unit type, more powerful than the human-loyalists spearman/javelineer and advanceable to 3rd grade, like mixed fighters but more melee attack damage
= Archers: are swifter, but less protected archer unit (not so much vulnerable as movementype=elusivefoot)
= Scout units with unique features but not attackers and not a powerfull/aggressive/unstopable village grabbers

== Any suggestinons or tips or you like to participate??

I would be more than happy to hear from you .. regards, Hachol.... ^_^

P.S.: I urgently need recommendations for base values and about the strength of my units, are they still too powerful? Are they balanced against mainline? --A warm 'thank you' :)
The fruit of a righteous man is the tree of life, and the wise man acquires souls.
And I said, I will perish with my nest, and I will multiply days as the chol.

Velensk
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Re: -= ERA_IVRIM =- gameplay & bugs

Post by Velensk » January 24th, 2014, 9:20 pm

I don't have time to look at it again just yet but I'll edit this post when I do. But reguarding the things you've brought up here:

-I would strongly suggest that in any case where you use anything named the same as a mainline ability that it work exactly like in mainline. Complicating things that a player thinks they already know is setting them up for a bad experiance. It doesn't matter whether it's the healthy trait or any special ability. When I see 'healthy' I'm expecting it to work like the one the dwarves have. When I find out that it doesn't and confirs a series of other significant advantages it's not only a slap in the face but also poses the question: Wait, why are these folks hardier/sturdier than dwarves who're also well known for that?
-I don't think that giving a unit the same allignment as something makes it a 'natural compeditor', in fact frequently quite the opposite. When I think of natural rivalries, I think of drakes vs undead or northerners vs knalgans. I think you'd find that it would just make a lot more sense both in terms of gameplay and logically if you make the faction lawful and make illuminates work normally. As it is, illuminates is as often a disadvantage as an advantage even for your liminal allies (though that is actually an interesting dynamic in some ways, it's also pretty unintuitive).
-It may be that a flying creature shouldn't be able to be hindered but that doesn't stop it from being in all kinds of ways a balancing nightmare. There's a reason mainline flying units arn't skirmishers. Any fast moving flying skirmisher unless it's incredibly frail (as in frailer than bats) would need to be made pretty inaccessable in some way to prevent several underhanded tactics.
-I know you already fixed this but I feel the need to re-emphasise it: Lack of upkeep is huge. In such a state as this faction was in before, I can see why it wouldn't make a difference but having no upkeep would make it impossible for the balance of this faction to scale with map and make your faction the automatic victor in any stalemate situation. On a map like Archenclave Citadel where within a few turns the player could be fielding 8+ more units than the number of villages on each side (and progressively more if both players play passively), one side not costing upkeep would quickly turn into an insurmountable advantage. In a stalemate situation unless the enemy faction does a level 0 span (which is frequently tactically inefficent) the only option that they would have that would allow them to keep up in total power is 'banking' which is strategically much weaker than just having the units on the field and not paying for them (and aside, at any time you can force them to have to recruit and then just bleed them).
-If you're going to have two versions of your birds be sure that they are distinct enough from each other that your players can tell them appart at a glance.
-I didn't really play around with the gollums past the first level. The first level gollum seemed alright to me. The ability to petrify however is a problem for more reasons other than balance and should be removed (though it certainly wouldn't be in any way easy to balance).

As for trying to get into mainline: Noy has worked for years (at least six years) to try to get the Khalifate into mainline and he's a developer. Also, the more factions get in the harder it is to put more in for two reasons. The first is that balance is not really a matter of each faction having a certain 'power' rating and trying to even it out so that all factions have the same power rating. It is more a series of match-ups between each faction and each other faction and how much each match-up favors one faction or the other. In order to be balanced every single one of those match-ups must be as balanced as possible. The more factions you add the more match-ups you have to manage. The second reason it gets harder is that you have to fit it into Wesnoths World. It isn't even really all that easy to squeese the Khalifate in let alone this faction.

EDIT: For some other reason I was under the impression that a new version was out but this appears to not be the case for 1.10 at least. When it is let me know and I'll look into it.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

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HaChol
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Re: -= ERA_IVRIM =- gameplay & bugs

Post by HaChol » January 26th, 2014, 2:24 pm

..

*- ---=== I N V I T A T I O N ===--- -*

Dear friends & dear wesnothians,

lets us have a little fun with the Eras / Factions :

Khalifate

Ivrim

Agarwaithi

&

Default


... non the less!

And lets us meet in the lobby of the 1.10.x multiplayer (mp) games server.

Sundays at 18:00 MEZ (17:00 UTC/GMT, or UTC+1)

Will you come and join??

Sure, why not !! :D


Sincerely, Hachol.

P.S.: Notable prerequisits are: install of Era Ivrim, Era Khalifate and The Aragwaithi
The fruit of a righteous man is the tree of life, and the wise man acquires souls.
And I said, I will perish with my nest, and I will multiply days as the chol.

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HaChol
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Joined: September 27th, 2013, 12:48 am

Re: -= ERA_IVRIM =- gameplay & bugs

Post by HaChol » January 31st, 2014, 2:42 am

Discussion concerning imbalance in Era_Ivrim
Incidentally. I've looked at the most recent version of Irvin but before I give any kind of feedback I want you to tell me where you think the problems are and what should be done. (Velensk, 24. Jan.2014, http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=39413, bottom of page 1)
Unit lines lost specific characteristica
I feel my faction to be still overpowered and be too streamline, with every unit-line having both melee and ranged attacks, so in general ...

movetype
I consider to use only standard movement types elusivefoot and smallfoot and smallfly and largefoot, and start new from that. Consider to have little bonus in resistance, due to the defensive charakter of my faction , especially in the elusivefoot, but less than now. I am not sure if I should adjust resistance bonusses due to the non-aggressive characteristic of my faction? big ?? How much can I bonus up -- still balanced??
movetype distribution
* The Rebbis line (healer) should have bonus on village defense (30%) and maybe elusivefoot (maybe to vulnerable) or smallfoot.
* The Hasmonee line (archers) could get elusivefoot -- but have movement=6 points already, must think on this, maybe just smallfoot.
* The Levites line (fighters) should get normal smallfoot .
* The Golems (alternative fighters) should fit in largefoot, or in the foot of the trolls.
* The Chol bird (scout) gets smallfly.
* Should I use deep_water=4 movement costs to delegate water controll to one unit line (e.g. to the archers, Hasmonees) in addition to my intentionally weak fly scout Chol bird?
4 standard unit types
So far I got satisfied with 4 standard unit types: fighter, alternative fighter, archer, healer, scout.
fighters
levite-4.png
levite-4.png (2.97 KiB) Viewed 3854 times
I would like to have my fighter faction, called Levites, to be like the loyalist spearman line, a little weaker in damage, due to bronze weaponry but with the steadfast ability as a measure against attacks, like in the dwarf guardsman. I consider to make them pure melee units again - or further donwgrade their ranged attack. I am not sure with unit costs (do not know how it functions ingame exactly) and will adjust XP values around 42 mark. This would possibly mean, that any further weapon special or ability would be off limits in this unit line.
archers
hasmonee-3_melee2.png
hasmonee-3_melee2.png (4.02 KiB) Viewed 3854 times
My archers, called Hasmonees, should get a swift characteristic (movenemt=6) and get a little weaker, they should be versatile and tough. But they only use a sling and this must mean weaker than longbow archers, a little closer to mixed fighters. I am not sure if it would be wise to give them ranged attack with small damage and a high multi (e.g. 8 times, damage2 ) and marksman from lvl2 on?
alternative fighters
golem-clay_attack.png
golem-clay_attack.png (8.09 KiB) Viewed 3854 times
The alternate fighters should become defenders of the weak and defense_only Rebbis (who can kabbalah them). They should be able to bear much damage and maybe could be used as a secondary means as linebrakers. I am not sure if they should become only melee attack or both melee and ranged?
scout
phoenix-7.png
phoenix-7.png (2.25 KiB) Viewed 3854 times
My scout is the Chol bird only lvl1 no upgrade to bigger unit, just default amla. The chol scout should be special, weak in attack butdurable, unpoisonable/drainable.
healers
rav-3_ranged.png
rav-3_ranged.png (3.83 KiB) Viewed 3854 times
The Rebbi unit line is the most unique in my faction Ivrim. It should be weak but feature rich. It features two upgrade path from lvl1 to lvl2 . One branch a little more aggressive frontline , the other branch very peacful and not interested in fighting, just

I know from where I started from, but where to I am going exactly ...
I started some 2-3 years ago creating & adapting.
Instead of an Epilog
Yes, some 2-3 years ago, I started, becoming increasingly uneasy with the standard factions (elves, loyalsits) in many campaigns. So I did some tweaking with sprites (thanks to gimp) and included them in the appropriate game core folders to replace the sprites with my ivrim types. By this I learned about abilities and that stuff and played around a bit and - hey it altered the campaigns letting me collect recruitment armies I liked and finishing the campaigns a little faster. I also liked playing local mp games with my kids letting them see and use my altered sprites. So I developed a hole faction already - with fighters, archers, mixed fighters, healers... And I read the famous guide by Velensk.
End of last year we planned to move and I thought it would be good to give live to my faction Ivrim on the wesnoth servers. So, initially it was feature over-ridden and too strong for MP. And I thought would'nt it be cool to have factions arounf it to create an era which I would like, set in the fictional times of bronze age of wesnoth down south on the wesnoth map. So came up the Bronze Age Clashes (unfinished) era. Now I saw the featured faction Era_Khalifate in wesnoth 1.11.8 and thought, bingo, a natural competitor for my Era_Ivrim, could be stuff for campaigns, narratives, new gameplay experience. Regarding the era/faction development guide from Velensk, I would say I started out with his last mentioned reason one might make an era UMC, namely: "7:Create this because you think your factions fill some thematic gap which has not been covered yet." And I think all the more so now.

... more soon to come.
The fruit of a righteous man is the tree of life, and the wise man acquires souls.
And I said, I will perish with my nest, and I will multiply days as the chol.

Velensk
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Joined: January 24th, 2007, 12:56 am

Re: -= ERA_IVRIM =- gameplay & bugs

Post by Velensk » January 31st, 2014, 1:19 pm

Unfortunately, the thematic niche doesn't exactly lead to great design (though I'll admit it is the main reason I have any interest in this project at all). I honestly don't believe that anybody aside from you really sees this faction as being in any way related to the Khalifate or the main Wesnoth world at large. Aside from there not being any religion in wesnoth (the khalifate are inspired by the people of the middle east and asian steppes who were muslims at large the Khalifate are not) your faction does not have either the same level of polish or design logic that exist in mainline.

As for everything else, I'm going to suggest a simpler way of looking at it.

Go through your faction, unit by unit, and look for things that might not make sense or be intuitive to people.

After you're done going through your faction looking at it that way, go through your faction unit by unit and look for things that might be a gameplay/balance problem.

And if you want to be thorough, after you're done with that you could consider your faction as a whole and how the match-up with each other faction should go and both how these other factions would fight yours and how yours can deal with what they can throw at you.

Once you know what the problems are you can fix them.If you don't actually know what is a problem and just have a ton of ideas for things you want or where it can go you spend a lot of time making changes that don't actually making things better.
The reason I asked you for what your thoughts are was because I wanted to see what went through your head when I say 'problems'. Design is as much about problem solving principles as it is about creativity. I could come up with a long list of things that I consider to be problems but ultimately none of my support or advice will help you if you can not do that on your own end, it'll just become an endless cycle.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

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HaChol
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Re: -= ERA_IVRIM =- gameplay & bugs

Post by HaChol » February 3rd, 2014, 4:31 am

O.K. I have done a series of wade throughs of my files in Era_Ivrim -- unit for unit, as you suggested, Velensk.

I did remove a lot of imbalaces. The rest is hopefully in the same category as such weapon specials as drain, poison etc in mainline.

Frankly put, this era needs play-testing and needs to be challenged in player vs player analyses. I hope , that I did all that would be required to do so. I hope, that it will be accepted by more experienced players than me, now. ^_^

Thank you for your kind support, I did put you in to the credentials!
The fruit of a righteous man is the tree of life, and the wise man acquires souls.
And I said, I will perish with my nest, and I will multiply days as the chol.

Velensk
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Re: -= ERA_IVRIM =- gameplay & bugs

Post by Velensk » February 3rd, 2014, 12:03 pm

I think I'm done giving help in the fashion I have been for awhile. I'm still interested in the project but I think you're going to need someone elses perspective before anything else I can say will help.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

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HaChol
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Re: -= ERA_IVRIM =- gameplay & bugs

Post by HaChol » February 3rd, 2014, 7:26 pm

... the truth is, I am roughly satisfied so far with my work , but I realy do not have very much expertise with expert MP gameplay and expert tactics, involving ToD, alignment etc...
Unfortunately Eagle_11 was not interested in co-work or cooperation, sadly, because I got the impression that we were working on likly projects, however...

So for me it would be fine so far as it goes, to get some feedback from multi-player playtesters. I think I did a bit to promote my faction ... so - thats all.

Is there anything I could do to get some other players interested in to meet on the MP servers to play my default + ivrim era?. If you have a tip on this let me know, please.

And now, a big warm thank you Velensk, for every tip and help and all your efforts here in the wesnoth realms ^_^

P.S.: I noticed the comment on the campaign you made, settled in an egyptian style set. You was encouraged to do more levels for it, so if you like, you may could build in my faction Ivrim.
The fruit of a righteous man is the tree of life, and the wise man acquires souls.
And I said, I will perish with my nest, and I will multiply days as the chol.

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