Scenario Review: (UTBS) 6.2 In the Domain of the Dwarves

[Korakinos]

When I save-reload at the beginning of the scenario, but after the wall has been torn down and the first group of dwarves is visible, their leader disappears. The other dwarves are unaffected (so far, I have not continued the scenario after the leader's disappearance). A save-reload with the wall still intact does not cause this.

This is on version 1.10.3 .

Should I report this in the bug tracker?

[Alarantalara]

I've fixed this particular bug (it's still in 1.10.4, and 1.11.0), but in general, reporting on the bug tracker is preferred since many developers do not follow the forums closely, causing responses to the bugs to be delayed or non-existent.

[Korakinos]

Okay, next time on the bug tracker. Thank you for fixing!

[Maiklas3000]

1) Version, level, gold? 1.11.15, Nightmare, 359 starting gold.
2) Adequately difficult? It's plenty difficult if you play without save-reloads. What makes it especially difficult is things jumping out at you, possibly killing a critical unit. Mostly I mean the bats and tentacles, but also a berserker can come out of nowhere. I wouldn't object if you wanted to make it easier, like by getting rid of all the Dread Bats except the leader bat, but it could also remain the same.
3) Reloads? After several losses, I was finally able to win with no save-reloads! Plus I got the bonus belt! Plus I finished one turn early and with positive gold! It helps to be paranoid and go slow as hell. There is enough time, if you already know where everything is. I didn't remember this, but you lose some units automatically after this scenario, so you can look in the walkthrough if you want to know which units are expendable.
4) Dialog? Super. I'm impressed by the funny dialog by the drill sergeant. Depending on whether a troll, elf, or other (Dust Devil) encounters them, there are three slightly different dialogs! I think you should move the trigger hex one closer. Right now it can be triggered when you are just around the corner and don't seem to be in line of sight. Also, the dialog foreshadowing tentacles ("something moving") when you step into the water can be triggered after you have killed all the tentacles.
5) Fun? It's fun and a really great scenario. The mood is spooky and keeps the player feeling uncomfortable by putting him in novel combat situations. I've never liked how the rune key works, though. The key shouldn't teleport to whomever needs it. A password could be communicated, so that would make more sense.

[nuorc]

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on?
1.12.1, Medium

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.
n/a.

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?
This whole scenario is such an 'event'.

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues?
ok, maybe a bit lenghty.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.
First: Maybe take some villages a bit away from the enemy leaders, so they're a little earlier accessible and at least increased upkeep because of levelling is kept in check.

How fun was this? 0/10. Terrible. Nearly made me quit the campaign. Identify segments and act according to script the next time. Maybe I hit a streak of bad luck, but every outcome seemed to be pure luck.

Spoiler:

The cornered ally and the attacking bats: roll the dice a few times and you will get greatly different results the player can't influence.

Dear Author(s): If you place units we have to fight and they act when the see us, fine. By now I feel like it's always 'the enemy can't see him, but the scout sees a certain hex and now some deus ex machina-thing will go off'. I'm getting tired of it. It feels over-abused, a non-enjoyable, forced, gaming experience. Bad story telling.

The exact time and hex I learned to hate this scenario and some of the principles of this campaign was behind the guard, before the bridge. Seeing a certain hex will activate the scripted guards. You have to know when it's triggered and what to do else you fail and die (or massively lose time if retreating). I did a lot of stuff that turn, didn't save, triggered event: everything was ruined. I got punished for scouting and not save-loading.

Showdown: Like the scenario before, I have to fight deadly dwarves at chokepoints. Repetitive. I now know about the hidden goodie: will not replay to get it.

Edit: As the instructor/pupils idea is re-used shortly after (and the other installment seems tactically more interesting to me), maybe cut it out here; make it four regular enemies, the area more accessible, the cornered ally behind a chokepoint, and the player's decision might influence the outcome more.

[Inky]

1) Level, version, gold? 1.12.5 nightmare, 386 starting gold
2) Adequately difficult? 7/10, not that hard but those bats will probably kill some of your units...they killed my favorite prowler, sniff.
3) Reloads? No restarts/reloads
4) Dialog? -
5) Fun? I personally dislike scenarios full of bottlenecks.

The hardest part of this scenario was the dwarves suddenly appearing on the bridge, which was a nasty surprise. I used the cowardly strategy against them- retreated everybody all the way back to the castle in the south and let the dwarves come one by one into the bottleneck where I picked them off. I was really afraid this would make me run out of turns, but I still finished turn 51/56, so there's plenty of time. (Also went way negative on gold, but you don't need any carryover so it's fine).

[UnwiseOwl]

1) Version? 1.13.7, Challenging (new elves)

2) Adequately difficult? Probably about right. Doable with a small force of loyals if you want to, but hard enough to pose a challenge to a player with a decent army. I think the ghost defending the amulet could afford to be a wraith, perhaps.

3) Reloads? I came very close in the lake when both Kaleh and Nym were set upon by bats. Also almost got Zhul killed coming out of the lake (poor movement areas with high CTK like lakes often cause risky situations), but these probably wouldn't be so bad if I'd recruited more units.

4) Dialog? Was honestly a bit disappointed that the hermit wasn't named Gollum, but you can't have everything.

5) Fun?
A decent famine level. Very slow in parts, but about right for the difficulty. Oh hey, it's Grog!
It's possible to get units stuck behind the cave wall if you put them down the corridor to the East and then trigger the wall collapse so that Zurg leaves. Either don't put up a wall here or don't allow the player to go down there in the first place.
It's possible to be stuck for a really really long time before the bridge as you clear out the guards there if you didn't manage to get control of the Southern end of the bridge. I'd recommend opening up this chokepoint a little so it's not a single hex across. The 'charges' could easily block up a spot bigger than one hex, so there's not really a story reason not to do this.

[Thrash]

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.

1.12.6, Challenging (medium)

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.

Yes, it's a good tough challenge.

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly loose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?

Yes, several times you facing a couple L2+ Thunderers all hitting. And the first time I ran into the bats and just wasn't prepared for how nasty they were.

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?

Yes, but the amulet plot line lost me. I even found the glyph before I found the amulet, but didn't put the two together. In part it wasn't clear to me I got the amulet since I didn't pick it up like other items. Then it was weird because Zhul, who got no where near the hermit and the amulet could put it on and open the crypt. Maybe replace the amulet with another identical glyph that opens the first glyph (maybe even teleports you there to save a trek across the lake)? That would be a much bigger clue as to the connection. I ended up replaying the last 10 or so turns to get the belt, which is what you see in the attached replay.

I swear I saw a message about the tentacles appearing a turn before they did.

I killed the bat chief. It's weird it doesn't fight back.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.

Yes, very good, nice twists and turns.

[Konrad2]

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on?

1.14.7, Champion (Nightmare)

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level?

Yes, the turn limit seems to fit.

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly lose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?

No. (But I played it before, so...)

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues?

I like them.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun?

Yes.

[devavrata]

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.

Battle for Wesnoth 1.8.3, Easy, Battle for Wesnoth 1.10.7 Medium, Battle for Wesnoth 1.12.5 Hard

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.

Hexes with low defence bonus (30% at caves, 20% at water), are the most difficult thing - your elves are constantly taking damage, even if you rotate your elves to preserve the injured ones, you'll quickly end up with all of your elves injured. Healing is critical.

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly lose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?

No.

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?

The dialogues are OK, specially the ones from the dwarves.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.

Time can get tight, specially because of choke points. The "skirmish" ability from Nym and some other elves comes in handy; they can ignore zones of control and go around enemies so the choke points become easier.

[Konrad2]

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.15.17, Champion (Nightmare)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

6, mostly based on the end of the scenario, when I had already sacrificed a couple of units, making it harder than it had to be.

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Finding a balance between sacrificing units to accelerate my pace and not sacrificing too many units which would mean I'd get stalled until turns run out.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

7

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-

Scenario stats:
Attempt (1)

Spoiler:

Success (2)

Spoiler:

[Sandsculpture]

(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?

1.17.17, Warrior(difficult)

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)

10 Have to restart and change the recall units several times to find the optimal

Spoiler:

Without formation elvish units usually have 30% defense; Without illumination and the additional HP in 1.14 sylphs lack firepower

Spoiler:

LV2 berserkers kill any non-troll units just like they are dark adepts

Spoiler:

A thunderguard and a steelclad can deal 28+33=61 damage in the enemy turn. Few units can survive this

(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?

Crystal.

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?

Clear.

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?

Fight with aggressive LV2 dwarves in a cave, and without too many losses.

(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)

4

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?

-

[fredbobsmith2]

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Champion (Nightmare) 1.18.4
2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? Yes, knowing that I am under pressure to conserve gold for the next scenario makes it even harder. Far from the hardest scenario in the campaign overall though. Probably would've been significantly harder to get the belt, but I think it takes too much time (and cost, since you need some sun sylphs).
3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly lose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload? No
4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed? Yes, very good
5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc. Berserkers are somewhat annoying to fight, but it's okay because I think it forces the player to use a variety of troops. This scenario and the previous punish an overdependence on sylphs, and open up (or force) the player to depend on other troops like the loyal trolls (for gold reasons) and the fighter and tauroch lines.

Seeing other replays, and my own over-recruitment on the lower difficulties, I only recalled one keep of units, including all 4 loyal trolls, the dust devil, and 1 quick warrior. I recommend a warrior as another healer is redundant, scouts are too weak and their mobility wasted, taurochs too slow (for the lake), sylphs too fragile, and flankers good but their poison isn't really much use, nor are you strong enough to overwhelm the enemy such that their skirmishing is safe to use.
For the first phase, I positioned strong attackers around Zhul, and used tailwind to have Nym and Elyssa launch the attack on the starting dwarves, while the trolls formed a line. These dwarves were finished off in about 3 turns total, then I sent a group to save Grog while one troll triggered the east cave collapse. I opted to advance down the west tunnel as there are fewer cave hexes, so the elves can get through faster, plus it's closer to the Grog cave. The bridge group held the south bridgehead for 2 turns until the Grog team came back, then held that position for about 4 turns (3 hexes to attack each bridge hex from) until those dwarves were cleared up. The formation I used had Kaleh and Nym always around Zhul, to benefit from her healing, while the other units regenerated naturally, so that my army was very sustained between fights. Finally, I advanced to the lake, retreating to the shore to fight off the tentacles and bats. This takes a while because it's not safe to advance, but there are many enemy units, and it took around 10 turns to fight off all 3 waves of tentacles (and sporadic bats).
For phase 2, I positioned myself so that tailwind-boosted trolls could take both the village at the south chokepoint, and the rockbound cave slightly into the north tunnel. I then defended this positioned for something like 10 turns, getting exp for the heroes, Grog, and DD. I sacrificed 2 trolls to the berserkers, as they won't come out unless they are very likely to get a kill (and if they don't the follow-up will usually kill your unit). Got a bit unlucky on 2 turns where Kaleh or Nym nearly died. Eventually I thinned out the dwarves, then farmed them for exp until nearly the end of turns.

Results:
1 champion
Grog L3
Nym: rain of arrows, twin arrow
Kaleh: strong strikes, swordsman

[Ford]

1) What version and difficulty level did you play the scenario on? Please do not submit feedback from pre 1.4.

1.18.5, Warrior (Difficult)

2) Do you think the difficulty is adequate to the level? If not describe the issue that made the scenario to easy/hard.

I would say it's adequate, though there are some parts where it's very easy to make a mistake if you don't know what comes next and be forced to restart, but besides that it's hard but not too hard. The tight turn limit is the main source of difficulty as it forces the player to be more aggresive and expose themselves to more risk.

3) Was there any event that caused you to almost instantly lose, or made the scenario unplayable without reload?

Not a specific event, but I played way too defensively on my first attempt and just didn't have enough turns to reach the leader so had to start from beginning. The second time I was more aggresive, and still ended with just eight turns to spare.

Also, a berserker breaking through my lines and killing Zhul towards the end on my first playthrough.

I reloaded maybe three times in total during my second playthrough, mostly due to stupid mistakes like accidentaly killing Grog with a ray attack (lol).

4) Do you like the storyline and the dialogues? If not what part/character lags behind or what would you like changed?

I liked it. The reveal that the trolls knew a way straight to the dwarven leader is kinda funny, and a reminder that even if the trolls seem less evil then the dwarves they are still exploiting the elves.

5) Do you think the scenario was fun? Please write down some thoughts about gameplay, mood etc.

I found it fun, though I imagine that a player who dislikes having to start over might be frustrated because it's very easy to make mistakes if you don't know what to expect (I played this campaign several times before, and still was caught off guard in some aspects).

On my first playthrough I played very defensively, because the dwarves have a lot of heavy hitters so it's easy to suffer losses due to bad luck if you spread your line too wide. I tried exploiting chokepoints whenever I could, and this left me with not enough time to finish. Related problem is that if you don't know when exactly are combat encounters triggered, you might not have enough forces ready to make a more daring attack and be forced into more defensive approach whether you want it or not (I mostly mean the bridge battle here).

On my second playthrough I was more aggresive - cleaned the first room much quicker by rushing the dwarves instead of waiting for them to come to me (I was very lucky here that my Nym was close to advancement, so I could use her to plug a critical hex, slow an enemy and still be 100% certain that she'll survive because any attack would trigger level up). I was ready for the bridge battle, so I could quickly seize the southern bridgehead and form the defensive line there, with the Dust Devil over the abyss in the middle. This time I didn't even try to cross the lake before killing most of the bats (easy mistake to make for first time players, it's almost certain you'll lose someone if you get attacked by the bat swarm while wading through water), and made sure to advance a singer into sylph so that I had two of them and could easily assasinate the bat leader. Finally I brought a fighter specifically as bait for berserkers, as they were a huge problem for me on the first playthrough - this time I also got lucky as the enemy recruited less of them, and I was able to deal with them by sacrifacing trolls and the fighter and not lose anyone truly important.

It's insane how useful the Dust Devil is here. Backed up by Zhul, it's nearly unkillable and can hold a whole section of frontline on it's own. Scenario would be way more difficult if I lost it before or didn't pick it up in the first place.

As for general mood, I like how it actually feels like you are breaking through strong but hastily set-up defences, with the enemy exploiting chokepoints, blowing up tunnels to delay you etc.