Tribute to Burning Suns -- TtBS
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Tribute to Burning Suns -- TtBS
This thread is about the reimaged UtBS campaign,
called "Tribute to Burning Suns" or short TtBS.
The document is still work in progress.
called "Tribute to Burning Suns" or short TtBS.
The document is still work in progress.
History of the Project
State of the original campaign
History and Setup
Concept and game mechanics
The Quenoth and their evolution
Campaign Layout
- Elvish_Hunter
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: September 4th, 2009, 2:39 pm
- Location: Lintanir Forest...
Re: Tribute to Burning Suns -- TtBS
Because they are not implemented. See this topic: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=31385 . (Yes, sometimes I felt the need to use them ).fabi wrote:[table][tr][th]Slot Number[/th][/tr][/table] Why are tables not working?
Current maintainer of these add-ons, all on 1.16:
The Sojournings of Grog, Children of Dragons, A Rough Life, Wesnoth Lua Pack, The White Troll (co-author)
The Sojournings of Grog, Children of Dragons, A Rough Life, Wesnoth Lua Pack, The White Troll (co-author)
Re: Tribute to Burning Suns -- TtBS
UtBS is by far my favourite campaign, and I welcome every efforts to further improve it. I find the gameplay and unit changes mostly good, but I somewhat disagree with the plot modifications.
You made things too rational. The meteor originates from a natural disaster, the elves leave the oasis for a very practical reason. The original storyline featured much more mystery. The Quenoth were forced to set off by a supernatural phenomenon, and were following the call of their god. Discarding this would not only seriously affect the campaign's overall atmosphere, but would also kill the point of the story, that the calvary of the elves was set up by Yechnagoth.
I dislike the removal of Keratur, too. He does have a role in the campaign, he's the one who informs Kaleh about the fate of the ones who were fallen along the way. I agree that currently he doesn't seem to be a much important person, but in my opinion the solution would be to emphasize his role rather than removing him. Maybe there could have been more survivors left behind, not just him, and he could report the death of those?
Finally, the elvish captain is called Garak, not Garad. Or do you plan to rename him as well?
You made things too rational. The meteor originates from a natural disaster, the elves leave the oasis for a very practical reason. The original storyline featured much more mystery. The Quenoth were forced to set off by a supernatural phenomenon, and were following the call of their god. Discarding this would not only seriously affect the campaign's overall atmosphere, but would also kill the point of the story, that the calvary of the elves was set up by Yechnagoth.
I dislike the removal of Keratur, too. He does have a role in the campaign, he's the one who informs Kaleh about the fate of the ones who were fallen along the way. I agree that currently he doesn't seem to be a much important person, but in my opinion the solution would be to emphasize his role rather than removing him. Maybe there could have been more survivors left behind, not just him, and he could report the death of those?
Finally, the elvish captain is called Garak, not Garad. Or do you plan to rename him as well?
Re: Tribute to Burning Suns -- TtBS
I'm not a specialist in cosmic matter, but....
If the rotation of the Sela is not slowed down, why nights becomes cooler?
If whole known surfaces become desert, where is all water now?
You can make Direlynx a level 1 unit with appropriate cost and a following abilities for beastmaster.
(buff limited at 25%. lynx should be less_or_equal to master)
And make advancements in two ways:
BM still have Beastmaster and Lynx gets twilightstalk. (and generally increase pierce damage)
BM loses Beastmaster and gains Backstab. Lynx gets skirmisher. (and generally increase blade damage)
In UTBS point has been made what Quenoths main enemy are necromancers and hordes of undeads. Because main role of warriors is defense of Quenoth, they should be equipped with impact melee weapons rather than spears. For example this or spears with following weapon special:
first strike will be "pierce", all other - "impact", reset after fight ends. (First they point enemy, and then they use spear as battle staff)
Two scenarios in a row without recruiting with "survive" goal looks very hard.
If the rotation of the Sela is not slowed down, why nights becomes cooler?
If whole known surfaces become desert, where is all water now?
You can make Direlynx a level 1 unit with appropriate cost and a following abilities for beastmaster.
(buff limited at 25%. lynx should be less_or_equal to master)
Spoiler:
BM still have Beastmaster and Lynx gets twilightstalk. (and generally increase pierce damage)
BM loses Beastmaster and gains Backstab. Lynx gets skirmisher. (and generally increase blade damage)
In UTBS point has been made what Quenoths main enemy are necromancers and hordes of undeads. Because main role of warriors is defense of Quenoth, they should be equipped with impact melee weapons rather than spears. For example this or spears with following weapon special:
first strike will be "pierce", all other - "impact", reset after fight ends. (First they point enemy, and then they use spear as battle staff)
Two scenarios in a row without recruiting with "survive" goal looks very hard.
Last edited by Xudo on June 26th, 2012, 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Tribute to Burning Suns -- TtBS
I agree that the desert elves are broken and I would imagine twilight as the best time of the day in a desert (especially when there are two suns) too, but I would be careful in restraining your imagination by pseudoscientific explanations. After all, the story involves mages raising a new sun to the sky (obviously they found enough material for that on Irdya) - little use to argue about orbiting speed after that. I wouldn't add units that make all alignments easily available. The aim is specialization and ToD-preference after all.
Also, I guess it is no help to you to add comments on single ideas now.
Just a question to comprehend your text: Which kind of stun do you mean? (There are at least two stuns in use. One disrupts enemy ZoC, another reduces enemy strikes by one (until 1)).
Also, I guess it is no help to you to add comments on single ideas now.
Just a question to comprehend your text: Which kind of stun do you mean? (There are at least two stuns in use. One disrupts enemy ZoC, another reduces enemy strikes by one (until 1)).
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.
Re: Tribute to Burning Suns -- TtBS
lipk wrote:UtBS is by far my favourite campaign, and I welcome every efforts to further improve it. I find the gameplay and unit changes mostly good, but I somewhat disagree with the plot modifications.
Right, both components stay in their places.You made things too rational. The meteor originates from a natural disaster, the elves leave the oasis for a very practical reason. The original storyline featured much more mystery. The Quenoth were forced to set off by a supernatural phenomenon, and were following the call of their god.
The Quenoth will never learn (although the player might get some idea if he prefers rational answers) that the fallen star is not a supernatural phenomenon.
Still the false Eloh will call Kaleh in his dreams and tell him to leave.
Not even the narrator needs to give a rational for the events happening.
Just consider the text part of the campaign writing process, I don't plan to spoil the story/prose with scientific lessons.
Agreed, I consider the plot around Eloh one of the campaign's core elements, and there is not much to do better with it, nor can I see a detail that can be discarded. I will fix the text to point out that those story parts won't change.Discarding this would not only seriously affect the campaign's overall atmosphere, but would also kill the point of the story, that the calvary of the elves was set up by Yechnagoth.
Giving him a role during the first two scenarios, leaving him (believed dead) behind and a reappearance later on was an alternative to the removal I still consider. Still, currently he can just be left out without much effects to the campaign thus he will be easily to add later on.I dislike the removal of Keratur, too. He does have a role in the campaign, he's the one who informs Kaleh about the fate of the ones who were fallen along the way. I agree that currently he doesn't seem to be a much important person, but in my opinion the solution would be to emphasize his role rather than removing him. Maybe there could have been more survivors left behind, not just him, and he could report the death of those?
I am still not sure about his motivations and intentions.
Yes, he was left behind and there might have been a bad relationship between the brothers we still don't know about.
But is that enough to convert him into a mystical Ninja, escaping countless times?
Then you discover his identity: "Oh, it's not a mystical Ninja, it's just brother Kerah, in a bad mood."
Somehow that story turn is funny, accidentally funny.
Reminds me to StarWars.
And wouldn't joining the tribe with his own identity again give him a much better position to get revenge on Kaleh?
I am fine with mystic in the storyline, the current implementation is just silly, it feels added later.
And in fact, it was added later.
The first few versions of the Campaign didn't feature the ninja brother.
Most of the stuff that was added later did more harm than good, imho.
You have a bigger difference in temperature when day switches to night.xudojnik wrote:...If the rotation of the Sela is not slowed down, why nights becomes cooler?
During the daytimes the country is heathen up by the power of two suns, if both vanish the high difference in temperature lead to strong winds.
You can have temperature differences around 35°Celsius from a day to night in earth's deserts as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobi_Desert#Climate
The artificial sun is much nearer to Irdya than the natural sun. It won't reach all of the planet's surface at all times because of that, the planet will still have frozen poles, or at least one frozen pole.
The "Great southern desert" does have strong cold winds mostly from the south beginning in the late evening phase.
This winds transport cold air from the south pole into the desert, the temperature reaches low areas and they are falling fast.
We have similar weather systems on earth as well.
I don't think that happened.If whole known surfaces become desert, where is all water now?
Many thanks for the code, I will use it.
In this model the Beastmaster and his Lynx don't level independently, right?And make advancements in two ways:
BM still have Beastmaster and Lynx gets twilightstalk. (and generally increase pierce damage)
BM loses Beastmaster and gains Backstab. Lynx gets skirmisher. (and generally increase blade damage)
You want two units recruited together that are bound somehow to each other?
The idea is interesting, but what happens if the beast dies?
This is one of the points where TtBS will differ.In UTBS point has been made what Quenoths main enemy are necromancers and hordes of undeads.
So far only two scenarios are planed to involve undeads, I want to get rid of all occurrences that aren't strictly necessary.
The Kahlifate will make a nice enemy (or ally) to the Quenoth, also there is plenty of enemies that can be taken from IftU.
Hmmm, yeah.Because main role of warriors is defense of Quenoth, they should be equipped with impact melee weapons rather than spears.
The faction does also need some form of disadvantages.
That is one of the biggest problems of the classic desert elf faction, the already versatile woodland elf faction is given additional power,
its only weakness is dealing fire or cold damage.
Thus I tend to move the warrior from a slower, more durable tank into a fragile hitter.
The player needs to life with the lack of a frontline blocking unit,
the classic desert elf faction featured the hit, but the run was just not necessary.
There are plenty of weapons around doing impact damage, the bola or the boomerang and staff.
I am not sure if the factions needs an additional melee impact damage dealer.
The Nunchaku is on the other hand a nice weapon, I am just hesitating a little with the cliché.For example this
At least it is fair to say that it is producible by them and I will set it on the list.
If there is the need for a melee impact weapon I will try to consider it.
At least a potential portrait artist needs to have a lucky hand to not make it look silly.
This might be doable with some WML tricks, but it's hard for the player to get, the damage calculation won't work, the interface can't display the issue.or spears with following weapon special:
first strike will be "pierce", all other - "impact", reset after fight ends. (First they point enemy, and then they use spear as battle staff)
I guess that is a no go.
It is three in a row.Two scenarios in a row without recruiting with "survive" goal looks very hard.
I consider that a relief to the player.
Let's have a look at scenario3:
You start in that huge map, full of shroud, not knowing what awaits you.
How is your recruiting strategy? How many gold do you spend? Are there villages to earn money?
Do I need healers or hitters?
The scenario is a tomato surprise, to solve it best restarting is nearly a must.
The not recruiting solves all those problems.
Saving enough elves for winning scenario2 is a victory condition in scenario1.
Same with three and two.
The balancing is easier since we know roughly about what units the player can count on.
Well, to draw a working time of day schedule you need to make some of this thoughts.taptap wrote:I agree that the desert elves are broken and I would imagine twilight as the best time of the day in a desert (especially when there are two suns) too, but I would be careful in restraining your imagination by pseudoscientific explanations. After all, the story involves mages raising a new sun to the sky (obviously they found enough material for that on Irdya) - little use to argue about orbiting speed after that.
At least if you want the player to recognize a time of day image and to know what to expect next which is a nice feature IMHO.
If you believe the explanation for the time of day schedule is too technical, don't worry.
This sort of stuff won't make it into the campaign.
Important is that the player recognizes a pattern in the schedule and is able to predict further states.
The classic campaign has a weird and not logical schedule, wasn't easy to recognize.
Well, yes.I wouldn't add units that make all alignments easily available.
The aim is specialization and ToD-preference after all.
Still I think the neutral units aren't much of a problem, they will act fine in interaction with the others.
They will need to retread at the wrong time of day as well, being not very frontline suitable.
Still the player needs to have some work during the non liminal times of day.
The specialized units can help to cover the run during that time or prepare the attack at the end of their preferred time.
They are meant to be loners solving special tasks or to support the liminal team at their worst times.
The non liminal units won't make a suitable army nor shall they be usable to hold the line.
They are not meant to open other time slots for the offensive.
Quite the contrary. Please tell me your thoughts.Also, I guess it is no help to you to add comments on single ideas now.
The disrupting enemy ZOC stun is what I mean.Just a question to comprehend your text: Which kind of stun do you mean? (There are at least two stuns in use. One disrupts enemy ZoC, another reduces enemy strikes by one (until 1)).
Re: Tribute to Burning Suns -- TtBS
There are a number of options:fabi wrote:In this model the Beastmaster and his Lynx don't level independently, right?And make advancements in two ways:
BM still have BeastmasterLynxMaster and Lynx gets twilightstalk. (and generally increase pierce damage)
BM loses BeastmasterLynxMaster and gains BackStab. Lynx gets skirmisher. (and generally increase blade damage)
You want two units recruited together that are bound somehow to each other?
The idea is interesting, but what happens if the beast dies?
- Make them independent units (simple, trivial)
- BM with LM actually can buff any Lynx (with level requirements)
Lynx can surround units without skimisher and by that to buff BM with BS (Scout\Hunter with stun will suit here)
- They can share hitpoints and xp They can divide damage taken (by healing) or just harm bound unit
They both can die if one of them dies
- BM with LM actually can buff any Lynx (with level requirements)
The question is: how exactly you will bind them?
- Lynxmaster can "recruit" Lynxes by yourself
- Via tricky management of recruitment list
Via [menu_item]
- Via [menu_item]
Via tracking of "select" events
- Via tricky management of recruitment list
Re: Tribute to Burning Suns -- TtBS
You can see everything as funny with a certain sense of humour. If you don't want to keep him, though, naturally I can't do anything against it. One thing you might want to consider, however: unlike what you seem to remember, Keratur and Kaleh are not brothers. Keratur is the son of the former leader of Quenoth (died in the catastrophy), Kaleh is just a nephew. So, in fact, Keratur would come before in the inheritance line. I always thought that that could be a source of some interesting conflict among them. Most likely, the evolution of their relationship could be used to illustrate Kaleh's development from the chief-by-accident to the self-confident leader. On the other hand, Kaleh's changing attitude towards Eloh and her commands already does exactly the same thing, so it might become a bit overdone this way I don't know. Do what you want.Giving him a role during the first two scenarios, leaving him (believed dead) behind and a reappearance later on was an alternative to the removal I still consider. Still, currently he can just be left out without much effects to the campaign thus he will be easily to add later on.
I am still not sure about his motivations and intentions.
Yes, he was left behind and there might have been a bad relationship between the brothers we still don't know about.
But is that enough to convert him into a mystical Ninja, escaping countless times?
Then you discover his identity: "Oh, it's not a mystical Ninja, it's just brother Kerah, in a bad mood."
Somehow that story turn is funny, accidentally funny.
Reminds me to StarWars.
Some nitpick on the other things:
The Sybil's and the Mystic's stats are nearly identical. Is that intentional?
The fur thing: It might come in handy during the nights but having a thick hair on your body is pretty lethal at daytime in the desert. Humans are actually believed to have lost their fur because they left their nice shady forests and their cover was fatally impractical on the plains. It blocks heat exchange and prevents you from sweating. Regarding that the elves had already reached a high level of civilization when they were forced to change environment, staying hairless and putting on a coat during the nights seems to be a much more reasonable solution for me.
- Elvish_Hunter
- Posts: 1575
- Joined: September 4th, 2009, 2:39 pm
- Location: Lintanir Forest...
Re: Tribute to Burning Suns -- TtBS
OK, finally some time for a more complete answer...
On the other hand, this is a situation where the new events that will be available on 1.11 ( enter_hex and exit_hex, see https://gna.org/patch/?3186 ), combined with [filter_vision] in SLF, may be useful.
Not exactly. Irdya has two moons, one of which is much smaller and never visible. http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... 15#p370694fabi wrote:Like Earth, Irdya seems to have a big moon (suggested by the time of day images) building a double gravitational system.
A small typo here: it's Sela.fabi wrote:Seila -- Smaller Sun, orbiting Irdya in 4 time slots
In TSoG, I made it so that the Desert Hero can advance also to Desert Vanquisher. These are the current stats for the unit:fabi wrote:So far 3 base Carnal Quenoth units with their trees are planed:
- Lvl 3
- Gender male
- Alignment: lawful
- HP 60
- MP 5
- Weapons
- Sword 11-4 melee blade
- Vanquish (sword) 21-1 melee blade marksman
- Bow 7-3 ranged pierce
From a coding point of view, I think that it'll be simpler to enable shroud as well, and replace the whole map at once. Besides, the shroud can be caused by the debris still suspended into the air - pretty much like when a volcano erupts.fabi wrote:Fog of war is enabled.
The fog of war lies above the original map of the oasis, whenever the players uncovers a fogged terrain tile for the fist time it's going to be replaced with the actual terrain graphics.
On the other hand, this is a situation where the new events that will be available on 1.11 ( enter_hex and exit_hex, see https://gna.org/patch/?3186 ), combined with [filter_vision] in SLF, may be useful.
Since you don't mention her, Elyssa will be removed? If not, in TSoG I made it so that she can advance from Silver Mage to Gold Mage. Many players liked that advancement, and since on Hard I suppose that there will be enough enemies to level her up to 4, are you available to add it for testing?fabi wrote:"Scenario 3":
Huge desert map.
One of the possibilities may be also to make a battle between Aragwaithi, Khalifate and Desert Elves, as all of them have good movement on desert terrains. It may be also an additional opportunity to balance these three factions.fabi wrote:The Kahlifate will make a nice enemy (or ally) to the Quenoth, also there is plenty of enemies that can be taken from IftU.
Current maintainer of these add-ons, all on 1.16:
The Sojournings of Grog, Children of Dragons, A Rough Life, Wesnoth Lua Pack, The White Troll (co-author)
The Sojournings of Grog, Children of Dragons, A Rough Life, Wesnoth Lua Pack, The White Troll (co-author)
Re: Tribute to Burning Suns -- TtBS
So Irdya has one sun far from planet which is something like earth's sun and secondary sun that is very close to the planet but doesn't produce much heat so it is likely to be very small (Propably those mages coudn't anyway raise big suns.) Also it has one moon same size and smaller invisible moon (How does that happen?). If night-day cycle would be stable it would propably be extremely complicated.
Looking from completly scientifistic view I'd say when those two suns collide something would be thrown out of the system by the change in gravity likely Irdya or the smaller moon.
Edit: For day-night schedule you should know orbits of the suns atleast.
Looking from completly scientifistic view I'd say when those two suns collide something would be thrown out of the system by the change in gravity likely Irdya or the smaller moon.
Edit: For day-night schedule you should know orbits of the suns atleast.
"This game cured me of my real life addiction."
-Flameslash
-Flameslash
Re: Tribute to Burning Suns -- TtBS
If you split the first scenario because of the tomato surprise, are you going to do the same with "Out of the Frying Pan"? I found it agitating that first you have a limited number of units (as if you recall too much, they will drown) and when you finally get out of that cave, suddenly you should be able to fight a standart battle against an enemy that can recruit. Sure it gives you a keep and some money at that point, but I was deeply in red numbers, because of upkeep of my recalls, so I had to fught the humans with what I had.
Speaking of tomato surprises and "Out of the Frying Pan", are you going to keep the Flesh Golem? In the next scenario he becomes controled by Eloh, which sort of punishes the player for all effort in finding him and keeping him alive.
Speaking of tomato surprises and "Out of the Frying Pan", are you going to keep the Flesh Golem? In the next scenario he becomes controled by Eloh, which sort of punishes the player for all effort in finding him and keeping him alive.
My first campaign:
Inky's Quest - the Cuttlefish Campaign
Inky's Quest - the Cuttlefish Campaign
Re: Tribute to Burning Suns -- TtBS
All good ideas, I will need more time to evaluate all options.xudojnik wrote: There are a number of options:To bind BM to Lynx you need to store their Primary Key (underlying_id or whatever) inside their variables and track die, defender hits, attacker hits events. Other way is to store coordinates and to update them in moveto event.
- Make them independent units (simple, trivial)
- BM with LM actually can buff any Lynx (with level requirements)
- Lynx can surround units without skirmisher and by that to buff BM with BS (Scout\Hunter with stun will suit here)
- Simulate "empathy" of Beasmaster and his Lynx (non trivial)
- can share hitpoints and xp
- can divide damage taken (by healing) or just harm bound unit
- both can die if one of them dies
The question is: how exactly you will bind them?
- Lynxmaster can "recruit" Lynxes by yourself
Lynxmaster can "bind" Lynx recruited in standart way
- Via tricky management of recruitment list
Via [menu_item]
- Via [menu_item]
Via tracking of "select" events
It is not only a question of function but also of style.
Having a personal animal is a nice touchy and charmy thing.
Still, it's a war game and I don't want the total overdesign.
This also sets some pressure.
Isn't easy to find a similar goody for every unit in the faction.
No, you can. I am listening to good ideas.lipk wrote:You can see everything as funny with a certain sense of humour.Giving him a role during the first two scenarios, leaving him (believed dead) behind and a reappearance later on was an alternative to the removal I still consider. Still, currently he can just be left out without much effects to the campaign thus he will be easily to add later on.
I am still not sure about his motivations and intentions.
Yes, he was left behind and there might have been a bad relationship between the brothers we still don't know about.
But is that enough to convert him into a mystical Ninja, escaping countless times?
Then you discover his identity: "Oh, it's not a mystical Ninja, it's just brother Kerah, in a bad mood."
Somehow that story turn is funny, accidentally funny.
Reminds me to StarWars.
If you don't want to keep him, though, naturally I can't do anything against it.
Ah yes, maybe they were brothers in early versions of the campaign.One thing you might want to consider, however: unlike what you seem to remember, Keratur and Kaleh are not brothers. Keratur is the son of the former leader of Quenoth (died in the catastrophy), Kaleh is just a nephew. So, in fact, Keratur would come before in the inheritance line. I always thought that that could be a source of some interesting conflict among them. Most likely, the evolution of their relationship could be used to illustrate Kaleh's development from the chief-by-accident to the self-confident leader. On the other hand, Kaleh's changing attitude towards Eloh and her commands already does exactly the same thing, so it might become a bit overdone this way I don't know. Do what you want.
The order of how the leadership passes to the next relative of the former leader can make a nice additional side plot.
It just doesn't work with joining the tribe in disguise and appearing as a Ninja, countless times.
Thus I would like to introduce him in the first two scenarios, let the player in the believe he died while defending the oasis against the undead.
He can join the tribe later on and claim for the leadership openly, still being psychotic because of all the events.
Do you have more thoughts on the issue?
Regarding the leadership, I would like to have Garak to be in command for his remaining lifespan.
I bet that Kaleh and Nym are glad to don't have the burden of being responsible for the future of the tribe, at least early on.
No, it's for sure a copy and paste problem.Some nitpick on the other things:
The Sybil's and the Mystic's stats are nearly identical. Is that intentional?
I have more actual stats handwritten somewhere.
Well, some animals do with it, at least Camels do.The fur thing: It might come in handy during the nights but having a thick hair on your body is pretty lethal at daytime in the desert.
Still, a thick fur is not proposed on the whole body, only on the ears and maybe some other extremities (Nose, lips, limbs) that could easily freeze off and regular do on humans in extreme cold situations.
Also it's only proposed for the Carnal Quenoth, not for the fairy ones.
Yes, the evolutions of humans is a nice field to look at.Humans are actually believed to have lost their fur because they left their nice shady forests and their cover was fatally impractical on the plains. It blocks heat exchange and prevents you from sweating. Regarding that the elves had already reached a high level of civilization when they were forced to change environment, staying hairless and putting on a coat during the nights seems to be a much more reasonable solution for me.
Still I believe other high developed mammals (or non mammals, some birds are of high intelligence as well) do well with other cooling mechanisms.
A desert specialized animal/humanoid should certainly not rely on heavy sweating, the loss of water is to high with that method.
Camels do sweat, but not that much because they can change the temperature of their body.
Still they have a fur.
I also like to have the Carnal Quenoth being more of an animal, the mutation of them is somewhat of a backwards step,
like the return to the more fairy Quenoth is one as well.
But the fur thing is only a minor issue. The last decision on that detail will be in the hands of the artist, it's only a thought.
Good to know, thanks.Elvish_Hunter wrote:OK, finally some time for a more complete answer...
Not exactly. Irdya has two moons, one of which is much smaller and never visible. http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... 15#p370694fabi wrote:Like Earth, Irdya seems to have a big moon (suggested by the time of day images) building a double gravitational system.A small typo here: it's Sela.fabi wrote:Seila -- Smaller Sun, orbiting Irdya in 4 time slots
I am not sure.In TSoG, I made it so that the Desert Hero can advance also to Desert Vanquisher. These are the current stats for the unit:fabi wrote:So far 3 base Carnal Quenoth units with their trees are planed:Do you think that may be interesting?
- Lvl 3
- Gender male
- Alignment: lawful
- HP 60
- MP 5
- Weapons
- Sword 11-4 melee blade
- Vanquish (sword) 21-1 melee blade marksman
- Bow 7-3 ranged pierce
Your proposal might fix this subtree of the fighter line to stand up with the rest of them,
but I don't see how this unit could fit into the redesigned Quenoth faction.
Hmmm, well.From a coding point of view, I think that it'll be simpler to enable shroud as well, and replace the whole map at once. Besides, the shroud can be caused by the debris still suspended into the air - pretty much like when a volcano erupts.fabi wrote:Fog of war is enabled.
The fog of war lies above the original map of the oasis, whenever the players uncovers a fogged terrain tile for the fist time it's going to be replaced with the actual terrain graphics.
On the other hand, this is a situation where the new events that will be available on 1.11 ( enter_hex and exit_hex, see https://gna.org/patch/?3186 ), combined with [filter_vision] in SLF, may be useful.
I see fog of war and shroud more of an abstract concept than a concrete situation caused by events.
Fog of war means that the units are familiar with the terrain, they just don't know of the enemies outside their vision range.
Shroud means the terrain is unknown to them.
The Quenoth know the surroundings and the oasis itself well,
thus I came up with the fog of war + terrain exchange idea.
Elyssa won't be removed, don't see a problem with the Gold Mage advancement. (I started playing TSoG yesterday, wasn't aware that it features the Quenothfabi wrote:"Scenario 3":
Huge desert map.Since you don't mention her, Elyssa will be removed? If not, in TSoG I made it so that she can advance from Silver Mage to Gold Mage. Many players liked that advancement, and since on Hard I suppose that there will be enough enemies to level her up to 4, are you available to add it for testing?
as the player's faction, still I didn't met Elyssa yet.)
Shadowmaster already suggested an "After the Fall Era", would be nice.One of the possibilities may be also to make a battle between Aragwaithi, Khalifate and Desert Elves, as all of them have good movement on desert terrains. It may be also an additional opportunity to balance these three factions.fabi wrote:The Kahlifate will make a nice enemy (or ally) to the Quenoth, also there is plenty of enemies that can be taken from IftU.
The caveat is that currently the Quenoth don't need to be balanced against other factions, only the scenarios need balancing.
And I am not a multiplayer developer at all, I would need help with that part of the project.
Please have a look at what scientists believe how our earth moon came in it's place. You will notice, it's also a story of collision but one that didn't end in the bodies leaving the solar system (Thanks god!). Not that that can't happen.alluton wrote:So Irdya has one sun far from planet which is something like earth's sun and secondary sun that is very close to the planet but doesn't produce much heat so it is likely to be very small (Propably those mages coudn't anyway raise big suns.) Also it has one moon same size and smaller invisible moon (How does that happen?). If night-day cycle would be stable it would probably be extremely complicated.
Looking from completely scientific view I'd say when those two suns collide something would be thrown out of the system by the change in gravity likely Irdya or the smaller moon.
Right, It won't hurt to come up with something more logical than the current schedule,Edit: For day-night schedule you should know orbits of the suns atleast.
without having to explain every nerdy detail to the player.
Yes, "Out of the frying pan" is another candidate for a potential split.Telchin wrote:If you split the first scenario because of the tomato surprise, are you going to do the same with "Out of the Frying Pan"? I found it agitating that first you have a limited number of units (as if you recall too much, they will drown) and when you finally get out of that cave, suddenly you should be able to fight a standart battle against an enemy that can recruit. Sure it gives you a keep and some money at that point, but I was deeply in red numbers, because of upkeep of my recalls, so I had to fught the humans with what I had.
Speaking of tomato surprises and "Out of the Frying Pan", are you going to keep the Flesh Golem? In the next scenario he becomes controled by Eloh, which sort of punishes the player for all effort in finding him and keeping him alive.
Still I am not that advanced in the campaign with my planning, I will keep an eye at the Flesh Golem issue.
Re: Tribute to Burning Suns -- TtBS
Well, we can go deeper in this, just for fun. The basic difference between camels and humans is that the latter had to radically change its lifestyle. Pre-humans mainly consumed fruits which didn't run away. The only thing they cared about is beating up their fellows to get to a higher rank in the society (this feature haven't yet from their kind, unfortunately). Pretty much the same way gorillas, chimpanzees and other apes live today.Yes, the evolutions of humans is a nice field to look at.
Still I believe other high developed mammals (or non mammals, some birds are of high intelligence as well) do well with other cooling mechanisms.
A desert specialized animal/humanoid should certainly not rely on heavy sweating, the loss of water is to high with that method.
Camels do sweat, but not that much because they can change the temperature of their body.
Still they have a fur.
I also like to have the Carnal Quenoth being more of an animal, the mutation of them is somewhat of a backwards step,
like the return to the more fairy Quenoth is one as well.
But the fur thing is only a minor issue. The last decision on that detail will be in the hands of the artist, it's only a thought.
When they moved to the plains, they could no longer just collect fruits. They had to hunt. The prey did try to run away, and they had to chase it. However, their body construction was simply unsuitable for such an intensive exercise, and it could easily overheat from it. This is why humans mainly cool themselves by sweating. It was just occasionally needed. Sweating is both effective and controllable.
Of course this is absolutely offtopic, just as you said, it'll be up to the one who actually draws the sprites/portraits.
I'd fake his death during the disaster, not the battle. If he would survive the meteor, that would mean that he becomes the legit heir, even if for just a short time. That would make Kaleh's position much weaker later when defending his rank, since Keratur wouldn't demand to "get leadership", only to "get back".Ah yes, maybe they were brothers in early versions of the campaign.
The order of how the leadership passes to the next relative of the former leader can make a nice additional side plot.
It just doesn't work with joining the tribe in disguise and appearing as a Ninja, countless times.
Thus I would like to introduce him in the first two scenarios, let the player in the believe he died while defending the oasis against the undead.
He can join the tribe later on and claim for the leadership openly, still being psychotic because of all the events.
Do you have more thoughts on the issue?
If you go with this plot change, it could be a good idea as well to switch the rebel leader in "Blood Is Thicker than Water" to Keratur.
Re: Tribute to Burning Suns -- TtBS
one adaptation to the sun could be increased skin pigment, ie darker colour. another possibility is that they wear light clothing that covers most of the body, but then they might not be distinguishable from khalifa
since elves are semi-magical they could have adapted any number of ways, including changing body temperature or storing water in their fat etc.
one would think they might develop a rapport with desert cacti as they did with trees/treants.
since elves are semi-magical they could have adapted any number of ways, including changing body temperature or storing water in their fat etc.
one would think they might develop a rapport with desert cacti as they did with trees/treants.
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Re: Tribute to Burning Suns -- TtBS
Or they could have grown stegosaurus-like plates on their backs
Seriously, though, the temptation to abuse the rule of cool here is massive. Too many bizzare biological features can ruin suspension of disbelief.
To throw in my opinion on what elves would do in a desert-apocolypse,
IMO they have a very great grasp of magic, possibly better than that of humans. They probably would have fewer biological adaptions, and more magical ones. For instance, they might protect themselves (and their woses) using small magical domes that keep out the desert heat, or use ice magic to keep their buildings cool and supply them with water.
Seriously, though, the temptation to abuse the rule of cool here is massive. Too many bizzare biological features can ruin suspension of disbelief.
To throw in my opinion on what elves would do in a desert-apocolypse,
IMO they have a very great grasp of magic, possibly better than that of humans. They probably would have fewer biological adaptions, and more magical ones. For instance, they might protect themselves (and their woses) using small magical domes that keep out the desert heat, or use ice magic to keep their buildings cool and supply them with water.