[Complete] TOURNAMENT: Conquest

[Nauzhror]

Wait... So this is just like a ladder game? Are there teams? Or is it solo?

1vs1.

And it't not regular wesnoth.

[Zbyll]

If We will play Conquest Minus, I'm in.

[Nauzhror]

We surely will.

[Gyudan]

Sudmark for early stage, Wesnoth for mid-stage, The last stage map will either be Sudmark, or a bigger map like Litergue.

I think Pasarganta and all its smaller versions (including Litergue) would be more balanced.

No timer. Sorry.

+1

I'm in.

[Amangon]

Count me in for it, too.
I strongly sugest more than 1 lose is required for a knock out. (in the finale there shoudl probably be a couple of games to determinate the winner).
It takes more time this way, but otherwise luck simply matters too much. (Even if the game is prepared like SlowThinker sugested, early combat luck and ai can still make it seriously unballanced)


Amangon

[SlowThinker]

I see almost nobody reads the forums, people started to registrate only after I announced the tournament on the MP server. So please, spread the word about the tourney too.

Nauzhror, I think you should stress in the 1st post that also players who are able to play only several games per month can registrate.

The tournament system
Shall some people be seeded? But how, by voting?
Maybe no seeding is needed, but there should be larger groups in the 1st round, like 2 advancing players of 4.

I think the registration should be open at least 2 months, but the tourney should start earlier. Another problem is for a strict knockout you need just 8, 16, 32 ... players. So maybe the tournament system (1 advancing of 2 (=knockout), 2 of 3 ...) for the 2nd round should be decided later.

Maps
About my idea of pre-made saves of turn 1: We can get quite balanced games this way, and so I think it is worth the effort to choose maps carefully.
But we don't want only very balanced, but boring spawns (like west vs east with very distant starts). At least we don't want to know in the beginning: the spawn may be "boring", but we don't lose the thrill if we don't know about it.
But it is hard to judge whether a map is balanced in case of "interesting" spawns. So maybe the spawns should be chosen only by very experienced people (with all due respect, you are not one, Nauzhror ). From another point of view, I would always lose some thrill if I knew in advance the spawns were extremely balanced ... so the balance always goes against the thrill ...

IMO Conquest Wesnoth is not the best map for the tournament, because it is small and the luck gets more important. For the default tourney map I would suggest "Surdmark with long teleports", because it yields quite balanced spawns.

Why not to allow opponents to choose a map (from the list of pre-made saves), if they get an agreement? Only if they don't agree on the map the default map would be used.

[Mabuse]

i would love to participate, but i am too busy.

just some suggestions:

a "knock out" round should be played by "best of 3 games", that being said, each couple of players play 3 games.
the player who wins 2 of 3 games have won the round.

its that easy. prepared spawns is nonsense (if you cannot play the game as it is) and if you do that, all the talking about "conquest is less luck then normal wesnoth" is led ad absurdum. if the game is decided before round 1 then conquest is a lot more luck dependent than wesnoth. also if early combat luck decides a game. put more trust in conquest and probably upgrade the used conquest version with a new spawn routine.


i dont need to mention that i dont have that opinion in general, of course spawns may be unbalanced in rare cases , but these cases can be avoided by a better spawn routine - (or you may invent some sort of REALM MODE, which is IMO the effect of "prepared spawns"). In case of prepared spawns i would make the maps in question official, so everybody can see them before.

[wtf_is_this]

LOOOL i was out of conquest 2 weeks and tournament is started(nice to hear).

Ok i read evrything untill my post and i WISH TO BE REGISTERED.Also:

The best maps are surely Surdmark(long ranged teleors),Lotrando,Dative(i mean the most balanced),thought i m ok with nearly all other maps.The idea of something like REALM MODE dont fits in my imagination,just cos the random spawn may fuk u,but its beter to have fun + a 2 out of 3 will make the game abit more balanced.

[SlowThinker]

i would love to participate, but i am too busy.

Mabuse, the tourney will proceed slowly, Nauzhror said it might take all season.

of course spawns may be unbalanced in rare cases , but these cases can be avoided by a better spawn routine - (or you may invent some sort of REALM MODE, which is IMO the effect of "prepared spawns").

The realm mode implies no randomnes, no thrill concerning the spawn.

Later I want to add an option with a "fair start" (like a similar strength of the AI around the starting positions) to Conquest Minus. But still it will hardly evaluate all aspects, like the mutual positions on the map (like a chance to get into a 1 vs 2 pressure). A balanced spawn chosen by a human will be always better.

In case of prepared spawns i would make the maps in question official, so everybody can see them before.

In past Conscience came with this idea: Know the spawns in advance and play a pair of games with swapped sides. This is very fair (although the battle luck still works), but people lose the thrill from exploration, and also it is a different game (you can plan a lot in advance, even in turn 1).

(a sidenote: Of course I expect all pre-made saves would keep the name of the author(s), i.e. of people that can't play that map in the tournament.)

[Nauzhror]

Ill edit this after I'm done cleaning my room, though I added the new participants.

[buz]

i also want play.

And may be lotr map?

[Conscience]

Count me in.

Conscience

[Nauzhror]

I was aiming at more classical maps that everyone knows.

[SlowThinker]

"lotr" is the beginning of "lotrando". That map is very classic.

Do you have any problem with the idea that "if both players can agree on a map, then they can play it"?

[buz]

and also very balansed