The Fall of Wesnoth (Storyline discussion)

[tr0ll]

My recollection is that there was slightly more context in UtBS which hints at the reason that their power failed: they either got out of practice, lost some needed lore, or there were too few mages of sufficient power to do the job. (Check this before proceeding...) If so, there is wiggle room for devious generations-long plots to corrupt or weaken the lawful faction before it tries to lift the 3rd sun.

However, i think there was an underlying theme of hubris mentioned as well, which i would want to keep as a natural and believable element of the story, even if it is not the whole story. One nice thing about myths and legends is the presence of mystery: different retellings of major events are possible (usually from different cultural points of vew) because reality is never as cut and dried or "deterministic" as rationalists would like the world to be. (If you want an illustrative real world example, look at WTC 2001-09-11: who knows what force(s) really caused it? pls dont get sidetracked this is just to show that the agenda of the tale-teller matters.)

[Konrad2]

Pewske..dingsda: have you got the idea about the disease from Liberty?

[Bennoman]

My recollection is that there was slightly more context in UtBS which hints at the reason that their power failed: they either got out of practice, lost some needed lore, or there were too few mages of sufficient power to do the job. (Check this before proceeding...) If so, there is wiggle room for devious generations-long plots to corrupt or weaken the lawful faction before it tries to lift the 3rd sun.

However, i think there was an underlying theme of hubris mentioned as well, which i would want to keep as a natural and believable element of the story, even if it is not the whole story. One nice thing about myths and legends is the presence of mystery: different retellings of major events are possible (usually from different cultural points of vew) because reality is never as cut and dried or "deterministic" as rationalists would like the world to be. (If you want an illustrative real world example, look at WTC 2001-09-11: who knows what force(s) really caused it? pls dont get sidetracked this is just to show that the agenda of the tale-teller matters.)

Thanks for the additional comment to the conversation Troll.

And yes i think we should take on board the nature of how vast events are interpreted. 9/11 as you say happened in front of the world, and was deeply scrutiniesed yet despite this bizarre conspricy theories have popped up all over the place, due to political and cultural bias.

This is also Why I have urged that Pew does not describe how the sun fails, and certainly does not include the killing of mages bringing about the failure of the sun, irregardless of what the Burning Suns say. It has become myth by this time and thus it can be interpret a million different ways. I think it will be much more powerful to say it will fail because Wesnorth arrogantly believes it can do this when it simply does not have the ability.

[Pewskeepski]

My recollection is that there was slightly more context in UtBS which hints at the reason that their power failed: they either got out of practice, lost some needed lore, or there were too few mages of sufficient power to do the job. (Check this before proceeding...) If so, there is wiggle room for devious generations-long plots to corrupt or weaken the lawful faction before it tries to lift the 3rd sun.

I've always been planning the fall to happen because of the mages' arrogance and lack of knowledge. The undead attack was just placed on top of that.

This is also Why I have urged that Pew does not describe how the sun fails, and certainly does not include the killing of mages bringing about the failure of the sun, irregardless of what the Burning Suns say. It has become myth by this time and thus it can be interpret a million different ways. I think it will be much more powerful to say it will fail because Wesnorth arrogantly believes it can do this when it simply does not have the ability.

This is exactly what I was saying in my last post (the cloud thing). But I was thinking about it yesterday and I'll go with, what you suggested, in that the fall has become a myth by the time of UtBS so I don't have to stay 100% true. The great evil that befalls them that day could even be in reference to the failing of the sun

Pewske..dingsda: have you got the idea about the disease from Liberty?

Yes, but I'm not using that anymore. Maybe I should update the first page so people don't think we're still working on the original story.

And that just about wraps it up for part 1! Now it's time to write part 2 ...

The party arrives too late! They've already begun the ceremony and are lifting a huge mountain into the sky. Alitar attempts to stop them but they don't listen. As the rock shows signs of failure, Alitar's party mount their gryphons and take to the skies where they'll be relatively safe from the rocks explosion. The rock crashes into the capital and shatters, sending giant boulders flying/rolling across Wesnoth, crushing populated areas, and destroying everything in general. It also creates a tremor, which results in the splitting of land and the creation of huge gaps. Then it starts getting hot, the two suns get slightly closer to the earth and before they know it, grass/forests start dieing and turning into barren deserts.

After the dust settles, Alitar heads back to Weldyn, which is now a canyon, and searches around the ruins. He discovers that necromancers are there and are raising the souls of the thousands of dead people. He stops them before hey can raise any large army, and realizes that some of the necromancers were united as a group and are heading east. It occurs to Alitar that he saw the minister of justice fleeing that way BEFORE the third sun showed any signs of failure. He new it would fail. Alitar's gang tracks the necromancers to a castle where, without a doubt, the minister of justice is staying. They launch an assault but can't penetrate the castle's gates. It seems like there's an invisible shield protecting it, somehow. Alitar takes a small group of trained fighters into the sewers of the castle by stealth. Their plan is to open the gates from the inside and let the soldiers pour into the castle in order to destroy the minister of justice. They are confronted by the minister of justice (and some guards of course) but they manage to kill him.

When the minister of justice confronts them in the castle, he reveals they way he survived the failure of the third sun. He has a group of powerful mages' in his castle who were able to stop the rocks from crushing them via their magic. They 'used the force' so to speak. This is also how the were able to preserve the castle's gates from Alitar's attacks.

Alitar knows the lich at the penal colony is part of this somehow, but he thinks he's just one of the minister's creations and decides to deal with Evad later. I'd like to hear what people have to say before I show the rest. Oh, and is there any set year that the fall happened?

EDIT: Drat! Bennoman was logged on while I was writing this, but now he's gone. I was hoping to have a quick reply

[Pewskeepski]

...?

It would seem that Bennoman has gone into hiding? Oh boy... without him, this thread is empty

I hope he comes back soon.

[tr0ll]

Bennoman was critiquing like a prize pit bull but you have made a lot of headway inspired by that discussion, i think.
Maybe you can take this opportunity to break up the story into chapters that will become the Scenarios, and think about the factions and units and map you will be using. I dunno if you would need to open a Scenario && Campaign Development topic for that.

[enchilado]

You seem to have lots of interesting ideas, but overall the plot is very erratic. Things just happen all over the place without much reason.

I didn't read it super-thoroughly, but I suppose my biggest question is: why does Alitar become temporarily evil? It feels awkward and silly to me.

[Pewskeepski]

Maybe you can take this opportunity to break up the story into chapters that will become the Scenarios, and think about the factions and units and map you will be using. I dunno if you would need to open a Scenario && Campaign Development topic for that.

I will post a topic in the Scenario & Campaign Development forum when part 1 is scenario complete. I have already started working on part 1 and as of now, I have 3 scenarios done.

You seem to have lots of interesting ideas, but overall the plot is very erratic. Things just happen all over the place without much reason.

I didn't read it super-thoroughly, but I suppose my biggest question is: why does Alitar become temporarily evil? It feels awkward and silly to me.

Psst, read the updated story, not the original one

EDIT: Just came in to say that Part 1 is on the add-on server! More details here.

This threads purpose has been completed. The story is set now, so no more discussion needs to take place here.

[Lord-Knightmare]

I have been reading the thread for a while now. The story sounds good, but the original one you wrote would have been the best option.

[Pewskeepski]

Sorry, but it's kind of too late for that.

[Lord-Knightmare]

Sorry, but it's kind of too late for that.

I know that. I just said that because it reminded me of an group assignment I did. Different people have different views. I learnt it the hard way.