[Mainline] Give ranged first strike to Master-at-Arms

[enders_shadow]

IO disagree, it woldn't be too tough to kill, there is no hit bonus being discussed here, just firststrike. Also the quick reflexes make sense to me, and lowering the damage a little bit wouldn't be a bad idea (if you are going with firststrike)

[Velensk]

First Strike has always implied to me the ability to get the first blow even if your enemy has the initiative. It makes little sense to me that a master at arms being ambushed by a ranged attack would get to shoot at his attackers with a crossbow first, whereas it is quite plausible that a spearman faced with an orc suddenly rushing him might get the first blow due to the reach of his weapon.

[francophone]

First Strike, I think, is best suited to units who have a good length (this is for melee) or very good reflexes (both melee and ranged). So possibly a quick and experienced archer could have first strike. Particularly an archer elf. I see another event ranged attack with first strike is a magical unit. Maybe a adepte of darkness that is really specialized in the ranged. Or a sorceress elf.
For cons, I think for a crossbow, it does not fit all. It's a gun long to arm. This limits the number of attacks in particular. We could envisage that the rafter recharging between fights. And once charged, a crossbow can shoot faster than a bow that needs to be bandaged. But in gameplay, it does not work, as explained Monochromatic.

[Insinuator]

First Strike has always implied to me the ability to get the first blow even if your enemy has the initiative. It makes little sense to me that a master at arms being ambushed by a ranged attack would get to shoot at his attackers with a crossbow first, whereas it is quite plausible that a spearman faced with an orc suddenly rushing him might get the first blow due to the reach of his weapon.

Excellent point. No matter how fast a person's reflexes are, they could never draw, c​​​ock, and fire their crossbow before an arrow hit them. First Strike is only used in melee for this very reason. It has nothing to do with speed, really. More like weapons reach, i.e. spears and halberds.

[Scatha]

Obviously the flavour is that they fire first, not that they can shoot before the arrow hits (your interpretation also wouldn't match up to the mechanics, because if the arrow is already in the air killing the assailant before it hits wouldn't stop yourself getting shot).

Put another way, the Master at Arms would be too wary to fall into a (local scale) ambush where someone was able to shoot them before they noticed the person (which is pretty cool, I feel, and definitely worthy of a Level 3).

The very fact that for some people this is not the natural interpretation of ranged first strike is a mark against this proposal. On the other hand, there currently *is* no canonical use of ranged first strike -- were this implemented, therefore, people would be more likely to lean towards this interpretation.

[Groggy_Dice]

The proposal is simply to add 'first strike' to the 20-1 ranged crossbow attack to the Master at Arms (level 3 in the fencer line).

Gotta go with those opposing this:

• With high terrain defense and skirmisher, master at arms is already powerful enough.
• "Master at arms" doesn't mean "master of every arm." The unit is essentially a master swordsman who also knows how to handle a crossbow.

Put another way, the Master at Arms would be too wary to fall into a (local scale) ambush where someone was able to shoot them before they noticed the person (which is pretty cool, I feel, and definitely worthy of a Level 3).

So, it's not enough to believe that the master at arms is a nimble swordmaster, hard to hit and able to skirmish. You believe that he is a master of every weapon known to Wesnothian man, quicker on the draw than units whose specialty is a ranged weapon, and now that he is too wary to be ambushed? You seem to be turning this guy into a superman. Methinks you've seen too many Three Musketeers movies...

You really think that a master at arms is more wary and aware of his surroundings than an elvish scout? A ranger (human or elf)? An assassin?

[Insinuator]

Obviously the flavour is that they fire first, not that they can shoot before the arrow hits (your interpretation also wouldn't match up to the mechanics, because if the arrow is already in the air killing the assailant before it hits wouldn't stop yourself getting shot).

Put another way, the Master at Arms would be too wary to fall into a (local scale) ambush where someone was able to shoot them before they noticed the person (which is pretty cool, I feel, and definitely worthy of a Level 3).

Interpretation of what mechanics? As you yourself said, there are no mainline units with a ranged First Strike ability. Hence, there are no mechanics to interpret. It is all speculation on an idea.

Secondly, this idea of an ambush comes out of the blue. Ambush is an ability that has nothing to do with who fires first. And a generalized ambush is really overthinking the situation. As I already mentioned, First Strike isn't about speed or reflexes. It also isn't about being alert or observant. It simply simulates extended weapons reach. So, you could say that the MaA has an uber-crossbow with incredible range, thus giving him a chance to strike first, but not that he is really fast with it.

[Velensk]

That doesn't quite match how it is implied that it is used. It is implied that it is a weapon to be used as a backup for if a duel turns out to be unfavorable. I would think therefore that it would be be a small and concealable weapon.

[Insinuator]

Apparently you didn't hear my sarcasm.

[IPS]

This post and several afterwards were from a related thread Master-at-Arms thought which was revived from about three years ago. I split them and added them here. All references to a "mastery" skill are related to that thread, which was a suggestion to give marksman to the Master at Arm's sword --Gambit

I like mastery too.

Marskman in the "mastery at arms" must give to them a more special use than only skirmisher and good counter atacks in mele and ranged.

[Dixie]

I like the idea, but I'd be against renaming it "Mastery", unless it was different from marksman in some way (different % or also available on defense or whatever). If it's exactly the same but with a different name, I feel like it's an UNKISS duplicate...

[8680]

Impressive.

[Dixie]

Wow, I hadn't realised it was such a thread necro (even though I wasn't the one to necro). :S

[pauxlo]

Maybe instead of "also available on defense" (which would make it a bit like magic), it could be only available at defense. You normally don't want to attack an master-of-arms by melee anyway (or only with units which anyway have bad defense, but high resistances/health like horses, dwarves or drakes).

[Moribund]

Don't the devs get super mad at suggestions unless you have replays that show it is a definite balance problem for 2v2?