Books discussion

[thespaceinvader]

Finally polished off Fires of Heaven, and promptly devoured more than half of The Liar by Stephen Fry. As expected, a very good book, though not for the faint of heart nor homophobic of countenance.

But I digress. What I came here for was to expound a little more about how Wheel of Time is an infuriating read: infuriating primarily because Jordan is very capable of writing very, very good fantasy. When the plot gets rolling and the conclusion of a book comes together, it's a rollicking read. He leaves off the internecine sniping and misandry, and gets down to action, and it's really enjoyable. He develops characters, plot and world in an interesting and engaging way.

If he did that for the whole book, I'd love the series.

But unfortunately, it's usually only the last third or so that knocks along like that. The first two thirds of a given book are slow non-development, and lots and lots of annoying inter-character sniping and misandry from any woman who appears on the page, ever. Sometimes it's fun, but mostly, it's a bit of a grind.

It's such a shame.

[Velensk]

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/sh ... p?t=386600

This might amuse you. It amused me though I never got through most of the series.

I read a different Brandon Sanderson book recently which I liked a lot more than the Way of Kings (called Warbreaker). It was interesting just how much I could figure out ahead of time and still manage to be surprised by a couple important twists. That said, It dosn't really make it's way into my favorites list. I do not know what is it about his worlds that irritates me but I definately felt it here in some ways even worse than the last book.

The other books I've read recently would be the first two Artimis Fowl (someone has been bugging me to read this for awhile) which has a core concept I find fundamentally hilarious, unfortunately it seems to take itself far more seriously than I do (also, I do not think the author knows as much about science/tech as he seems to think he does). I also was recently reading Borders of Infinity which is a collection of Vorkosigan short stories. This last was somewhat interesting as between the three stories each of the fundamental appeals of the series (from my perspective) is emphasized. The first story emphasizes the focus on character motives and mystery-esk plots, the second emphasizes the space opera action, and the final emphasizes the way the main character wins his way through desperate situations through exercise of exceptional leadership and will. Of course, anyone who thinks this sounds interesting should read the rest of the series that comes before and as such I cannot recommend it to anyone who wouldn't already want to try it.

[thespaceinvader]

Yes, that is pretty good.

It does gloss over some of the better bits, though. There are a few.

The shame is that some of the characters, when they're not clutching for dear life onto the idiot ball, are very interesting, entertaining and well-written.

[Rigor]

i also just finished warbreaker last week and while it had an interesting plot and certainly managed to grab my attention, mistborn was just miles ahead in quality. i was somehow sad that it all went so fast in the end and let some questions opened, such as:

Spoiler:

how are the traitor-mercenaries caught and punished? what to do with the super-army? where is this vasher guy going now when everything is obviously fine? what will happen to the empire now that everything is changed? and so on. i think the mistborn series is superior in this regard because there were two more books to explain everything, the magic, the background, the motivation. here it was a rather meek one: the path-guys trying to make the other two factions go to war because they would be free, maybe? ugh.

right now i have started several books and deciding which one to finish next. maybe it will be the mongols: The Secret History of the Mongol Queens: How the Daughters of Genghis Khan Rescued His Empire http://www.amazon.com/Secret-History-Mo ... 417&sr=1-1 i wrote that on page 57 already. the book finally arrived in paperback!

[thespaceinvader]

Finished The Liar, now (re)reading The Red Canary, a non-fiction book about genetics and the history of canary-breeding.

It's really interesting, honestly.

[Desertofsounds1]

Currently reading Veikko Huovinen's "Koirankynnen leikkaaja"
It's in finnish so if you don't speak finnish, get a translated one.

[Rigor]

eh cool. and what is it about, the plot, why is it cool ,what setting ? lol - really.

[Gwynnedrion]

I was reading Wheel of Time-series by Robert Jordan but after book 8 I gave in... It's a drag, though high literature imho, it's too much to read the entire series at once. Way too much information on some occassions, so you almost have to re-read the first few books when at book 8

[Moribund]

I think I got to book 7. I think every fan of fantasy has gone through it.

[Joram]

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/sh ... p?t=386600

That link is full of win.


I actually did not think that the pace of the Wheel of Time was all that bad. HOWEVER, that probably was in large part due to the fact that I would amuse myself for hours planning out in my head what I would have done if I'd been writing the series. It all involved the most embarrassing and humiliating things happening to certain unnamed females and certain unnamed males growing backbones and common sense (the females needed that to, but I preferred to beat it into them). As such, I actually never really felt the books drag (except I seem to remember once in the 4th or 5th).

I made it through the first 6, ran out of ones that my friend owned, and lost momentum. I now have little desire to ever pick up the series again.


On a side note, I just finished reading the first book in Mistborn. It was the best fantasy I've read in years (which isn't saying much) and I liked it a lot (which is actually saying a good deal). I think there were a few problems with it; firstly, it needed to be expanded in certain parts**, and secondly, it needed to be a standalone book. I probably won't pick up the rest for a while, and when I do, I'm sure I'll be disappointed in our friend Brandon. Sequels to such strong openings rarely come off, particularly when they're so unnecessary.

Spoiler:

** Elend (that right?) needed his role expanded. The whole "is she betraying me?" situation didn't come close to fulfilling it's potential. Nor did the whole "she saved him because she loved him in spite of etc". In fact, not much about Elend fulfilled it's potential, which was sad, because I think the book could have been even better if it had. Still a great book though. The flaw is minor compared to what I've had to slog through in other places.

[Rigor]

mistborn is such a great book! best fantasy i ever read (hmm, maybe together with HP on no. 1 ack ack), best magical system, great world description, excellent explanations why something happened and how...top notch. it needed to be standalone & able to be expanded and the way the author did it was just amazing. if i was you, i would indeed pickup the second part, and i can tell u with a 90% certainty that u will love it as much as i did!

ha, i thought the same thing about elend venture. actually, el will develop throughout the books, where he will be a highly entertaining and good character...how to say without spoiling the whole fun the book had a VERY satisfying end, at least for me. my gf devoured the book before i could finish and she was also very well entertained - which is a rare sight when she picks up books that i recommend because usually she likes quite different literature. i just asked her how entertaining it was on a scale from 0-100, and she said 90. i say: 100.

[thespaceinvader]

Don't worry about Elend - he's much, much expanded upon in the rest of the series.

The first book is really, really intended to be Kelsier's. Elend's very much a side character and proto-love-interest for Vin, and as such, really can't develop much as a character until she gets over her own issues with that side of herself.

Spoiler:

It's a very Sanderson thing to do, setting up Kels as the hero of the series, then brutally killing him off 2/3 of the way through the first book. Very effective, too.

[Kaddo]

I just finished Panzer Leader by Heinz Guderian. This very likely got me thinking about wargames, which made me active here again.

[Velensk]

Do you mean the rulebook to Panzer Leader (the board game) or is there actually a book named that?

If so, who wrote it?

[Kaddo]

There's a book with that name, it was written by a German general right after WWII.