Bad Moon Rising & Trinity

[doofus-01]

Well, I got the segmentation fault, but I have no idea what is causing it. I've tried different logging options and I don't get anything that I recognize as useful. It doesn't always crash, but it's maybe 60% of the time. It looks like the FORCE_CHANCE_TO_HIT macro causes some errors, but I can't tell if it is related to the crash.

[Bonners]

Hi doofus

Thank you for the Campaigns and this helpful thread. I have just completed BMR2, albeit by a rather truncated route, and started BMR3 but found there is no recall list.

In the last scenario of BMR2 (A New Home) I had eliminated the Lich, whilst I'd sent two Commandos north to capture the northern villages, which I had earlier missed. Seeing it was a 46 Round game I knew there was more due to unfold (and the Status Table indicated Orcs and Ghosts, as yet unrevealed). My Commandos were then accidently in a position to back-stab the Orc leader, down he goes, the rest run north, no ghosts appear and the Campaign is over, with some dialogue that now makes no sense about Scarrion's broken body... Is this anything to do with the lack of Recalls in BMR3.1?

I'm playing Wesnoth 1.8.5

Thanks

[doofus-01]

Is this anything to do with the lack of Recalls in BMR3.1?

No, unfortunately.

In 1.8.5, there are no global variables, so there is no carryover of data (such as a recall list) between campaigns. I think Invasion from the Unknown appears to be able to do this, but if I recall correctly, that is because it is really one campaign with two different starting points. BMR1-3 are really three campaigns, because BMR2 & 3 are too bloated to be loaded at the same time. Or so I feared at the time.

In 1.9.x, there are global variables, and the recall list does get carried over. However, it is probably still possible to assassinate the orc leader like you did, so I should do something about that. Thanks.

[Bonners]

If you made the Orc leader relatively invulnerable to attack for a finite period, like the enemy Leaders in BMR-2 Rescue, that would do it, I think.

And I guess I could edit the Save Game, copying in stats of Units from the beginning of BMR-2 A New Home to BMR-3 Trouble with Elves... I'll see if that works

Cheers

[IoN]

(1) What difficulty levels and game (& campaign) versions have you played the scenario/campaign on?
If reviewing a specific scenario, please specify.
1.9 easy (or the easiest setting, I forget what it was called) Trinity

(2) How difficult did you find the scenario/campaign? (1-10)
8

(3) How clear did you find the scenario/campaign objectives?
Mostly clear; some of the more complex ones threw me off, though. I didn't see how I could get both Bresda and Haldrad off the mountain if they wouldn't leave any of their men behind; turns out they can go when there's only one or two left. Some of the Kthon missions were also somewhat confusing; I wasn't really sure who/what I was supposed to kill and/or attack and/or vectorize. Most of them were fine though, with parentheticals like (Attack blah with Echidna).

(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline?
I love the idea of playing as Echidna, Nemesis, and Haldrad in separate but gradually intertwining storylines - I especially loved the moral twist of Nemesis becoming essentially the undisputedly "good" force for the campaign (at least until she's assimilated into the destroyer) after spending most of BMR fighting against the evil Primeval demons. I do wish that her characterization be made more clear, though: in BMR it's never really shown that the reason the Primevals believe extermination of other sentient races is necessary to stop the Kthon is mostly due to Ares; it's just kind of assumed they're unified against the forces of modern Wesnoth. Not until Athanta's short-lived defection did I even begin to consider that there was disagreement on that view among them. I suggest Nemesis be characterized earlier in BMR so that her ability to see other species' lives as having value doesn't come out of nowhere. Actually, a lot of things could be discussed earlier, either in BMR or earlier in Trinity itself, like the existence of Seth and the Phantoms, a more complete exploration of South-Sea mythology, etc. That whole thing seems to have come out of nowhere in the last few scenarios. I don't believe the Primevals' behavior in BMR was adequately explained either. Why did they attack the elves? What was that whole "order" thing about when their whole goal, because of Ares, was simply to use the volcano to exterminate all other sentient life?

There are also some other plot points that were rather. Why does Nemesis not wake any other Primevals? What happened to make Echidna scream, and why, after that, did she become sycophantic to Seth? How do Echidna and Seth both retain their personalities within the Destroyer, but Nemesis does not? Or was that last attack on Hera rather than fleeing the ship a final act of willpower by Nemesis?

(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario/campaign?
It was difficult, but not impossible; nothing really stood out.

(6) How fun do you think the campaign is? (1-10)
9. This is a pretty fun campaign.

(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the campaign to make it more fun?

(8) Any grammatical mistakes in dialogue/story text?
Not that I remember.

[doofus-01]

Thanks for the storyline feedback, IoN. Everything makes sense in my head, but it's hard to know if it makes sense for a player, so it's good to hear what someone else thinks about it.

Explicit explanations of everything will either lead to long slogs of text in the scenario intros or it will make the campaign even longer than it already is. But better explanations, and a more graceful handling of the parts that are left unexplained, are probably needed.

I'll open a thread in the writer's forum, in case anyone reading has any thoughts about this.
(EDIT: Here it is - http://forum.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=33534 )

I didn't see how I could get both Bresda and Haldrad off the mountain if they wouldn't leave any of their men behind; turns out they can go when there's only one or two left.

Yeah, this part needs to be revised. Maybe they can put some of the junk or a freshly killed orc on the runes instead of leaving a couple of people behind.

[marecki]

Hi, I really enjoyed the Prologue to your campaign.
Right now trying to win the third battle in Part 2 (Camp, the one with river crossing) and so far I'm completely stumped. Even if I successfully block the enemies from crossing (which apparently gives them reinforcements), I'm getting hopelessly overwhelmed after some time. Doesn't matter if I try to bleed them at the river bank, or establish a quick foothold on the other side - MASSES of loyalist troops happily keep on coming. I'm not the best player around, far from it in fact, but I've played this one carefully, without any mistakes, even had RNG on my side on numerous occasions, but the enemy leader just keeps spamming castlefulls of troops and there's only so many units I can hack each turn. Is this working as intended, or am I missing something here? If it's the former, then this campaign's difficulty is way way above my level.
Out of curiosity, how much gold/income does the enemy leader get?
[playing on Veteran (normal), no save-loads]

EDIT: Ok, finally got it right. Apparently all I needed was some unit experience. After two lucky skirmishes I had two witches and some decent guys to put on the frontline. With +8 healing the scenario was a different matter altogether and the next one seems really easy in comparison.

[doofus-01]

Ok, finally got it right. Apparently all I needed was some unit experience. After two lucky skirmishes I had two witches and some decent guys to put on the frontline. With +8 healing the scenario was a different matter altogether and the next one seems really easy in comparison.

Yep, I'm not sure that scenario is winnable without some healing units. Though there were some players who managed to skip the scenario where you pick up the archers, so who knows.

Out of curiosity, how much gold/income does the enemy leader get?

He is supposed to have a large army, but too many units can slow the game down. So instead he gets some gold when you kill a loyalist, but only for a set number of times. If the gold, income, and recruiting doesn't seem to square, that's why. It doesn't last forever.

[Palatin]

He, I just wanted to say: Good work on this one! Thanks for making it.

I finished the first part of Bad Moon Rising and it was great, now off to the second!

[AzuSkyLigh]

For "Royal Rumble," there is a bug where Carusoe cannot be injured by Raenna, causing him to be a really annoying level 2 Ranger who goes around heckling my units throughout the scenario.

I simply resolved the manner by debuging him out of the game; hopefully, this won't affect the future scenarios.

[doofus-01]

hopefully, this won't affect the future scenarios.

You should be OK.

I see the problem, not sure how it got like that.
I'll upload a fix soon, thanks for the report.

[AzuSkyLigh]

Same bug appeared again in "Ruin" with Knafa Skoro, the southern Orcish Warlord. None of my units are able to successfully land attacks on him. This may be because I killed the first Warlord before Knafa Skoro spawned at the southern end of the map.

[doofus-01]

I don't think that one is so much a bug as maybe a too-clumsy way of trying to keep scenario somewhat under control. If the player can assassinate enemy leaders, it is impossible to balance the scenario. I'll try to find some better way.

I should also probably weaken the ukian commandos...

[Destructinator]

i have 1 complaint.
THE PRIMVALS NEED SHIRTS OR SOMETHING TO COVER THEIR BREASTS PLZ!!!!!!!!
that is all

[doofus-01]

No, but I should probably amend the splash text.
Thanks...