Conquest 2.0 - on 1.8 server

[Lich_Lord]

I'm not really sure if anybody has considered this, but I think it might be fun to have a conquest tournament. I'm not really sure how the logistics could work, but perhaps it could be done in a round-robin kind of fashion at the start, and then just 1v1's later on, or perhaps multiple tournaments, a FFA one, a teams one, and a FFA. As far as how the games would go, maybe something along the lines of the players would do a best 2 out of 3, where one side would pick the first map, the other side the second map, and the third, if needed, could be randomized or something.

It sounds like it could be fun, what do people think?

[SlowThinker]

The placement of the starting AI decides too much, first the engine should be improved and the starting AI balanced ...

[wtf_is_this]

Hmmm...

I've been a long time out of my favourite game.Mostly because i couldnt understand whats hapening .Now i see so many conquests that i needed a whole day to understand what is what:P.Seems like Slows conquest is realy what we need(the players who realy undersytand the importance of balance),so i would like to ask u some questions Slow:

1.What u mea nby more balanced AI?Is it TOP-SECRET or u can say some hints
2.The idea of the tournament is realy a good idea.I m thinking for such from 6 months(when i was at my best),althought i havent played this game from 2-3 months.
3.Can i have a litle idea of this changes that u will make,slow?
4.And is there lotr map in the 1v1 variant,which can be downloaded at conquest?(and in whitch conquest :D:D).

Have a nics time in playing and coding the best add on in wesnoth.
I hope u havent forgot who i am:P.I would like t o join the conquest society again after i see whats hapening and if there ares till good old players,and new one who like to learn.Hope i havent forgot evrything from this game :D:D

[SlowThinker]

1. I meant the capitol mode: if one side gets an easy AI and the opponent a hard AI then the game is decided.
2. I agree this is a good idea (even with the unbalanced AI placement), but for me it would represent too much of playing, I can't afford it now.
3. At the moment The Minus Company assigned most programmers to creation of new game modes and an improvement of the capitol mode
4. The Rings map is linked from the Conquest Minus thread. Version 1.19 works with Conquest-, version 1.17 (and lower) with other variants of Conquest.

I hope u havent forgot who i am:P.

I remember an impatient guy in one of my first games on the lotr map, who wondered so much why I play so slowly.

[wtf_is_this]

I m not silly .I am asking what will be the ai)example:milita,sergant and so for)

Seems u forgot the impatient guy(which i realy am) beated u on our last match at poland map.Still it was hard game i think somwhere 4-6 hours9with save and reload) (althought i see a sense of humor here )

[SlowThinker]

I m not silly .I am asking what will be the ai)example:milita,sergant and so for)

I didn't mean the AI should change. I meant if one side gets all militia around its starting position, the opponent should get them too.

[Amangon]

Hi everybody,
I like the idea off a turnament, too.

In case of 1 vs 1s we could reduce the luck factor a lot, if we just make it 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 5 wins agaisnt one player (luck can still interfer, but thats the essence of wesnoth xD)
I think an total elimination system would be problematic, since a player thats gets a strong player as a enemy migth gets kicked out in the first round despite his skill).
So it migth be a good idea to make a round and point based system.That way you get a certain number of points for each win and, if you have enugth points, you advance into the next round etc.(This way did take more time so,. we migth just stick to the elimination system. xD)
In FFA there migth be problems, since its FFA after all. xD So its possible that some people make secret aggrements before hand (cant be avoided tougth).


Amangon

[SlowThinker]

In FFA there migth be problems, since its FFA after all. xD So its possible that some people make secret aggrements before hand (cant be avoided tougth)

People can make secret agreements, or reveal the map during a game. But only very dumb people would do it, because they would lose all the thrill of the game and the tournament.

[Amangon]

Lets hope it wont happen

[wtf_is_this]

lol Amangon.I thought u are retired :D:D.If u havent forgot we have a game to finish .

But if there is a tournament i think many not-good peole(noobs0 and beginerse would like to join and they will be 'kicked'.While some very good might lose only because they will need to fight the best(like Amangon is one of them ).Still it needs to be 2 out of 3,cos out of 5 needs a lot of time.The best map surely is the lotr 1v1,but many people dislike it and after a lot playing on it its geting not so funny.


The organisation of such tournament is a big problem too.If it starts with groups,it will take too much time.And if i go in the tournament i would do it just for fun and pleasure.U know how many leavers are eeven in non-tournament games,what can i say in tournament.
the leavers will do:
1.The fun of the game very lowered
2.some players become points/go to next stage without playing.

Still i hope this will be realized.

Have a nice time playing this great game

[Elrood]

Well, leavers are problem with any kind of wesnoth tournaments.
2 out of 3 games is probably best idea.

About time, players could make arrangements in some forum thread, than it would be public. Easy to say who missed too.

What would be important, is unified timer (or it's absence) setting for tournament, map (like Lotr or Europe, which is fast gameplay). About groups, I doubt that there would be more than 2 groups so no much problem here.

FFA would be crazy . Pure luck, minimum skill.

[Hiebe]

If we do a turny the games would have to be equal for both teams right? using your own warlord like skills to use troops properly. sooo i suggest we make a FFA 1v1 and team maps that are completly simetrical. equal to both "sides" and the AI would be milita or light infantry to make it harder

[Lich_Lord]

If we do a turny the games would have to be equal for both teams right? using your own warlord like skills to use troops properly. sooo i suggest we make a FFA 1v1 and team maps that are completly simetrical. equal to both "sides"

The problem with a completely symmetrical map is that
-It will still not be completely balanced due to the randomness of the spawning.
-There is currently no symmetrical map in conquest, though I don't think it would be too hard to make one.
-Symmetrical maps have a tendency to get boring quickly, though mainly I think that if we have one standard map for the entire tournament, by the end, players will be very tired of playing on that map.


As I stated before, and it seems like others agree with me, it'll be best to do a best 2 out of 3 for the games, but I think that doing this for the entire tournament might be too much of a time commitment for most players, therefore, I have a possible layout for the 1v1 tournament:

It would start out like something Amangon suggested, almost exactly like the World Cup if you guys follow soccer (or football if you're not an American). Everybody would be placed in a group of four players, where everybody in that group would play each other once. The top two players would then advance to the next round, which would then be elimination, best 2 of 3, until possibly the semifinals or finals, where it would be best 3 out of 5.

I think this system is preferable to a purely elim tourney because it will give good players a better chance of staying alive early on, even if they are seeded with another pro player, because they just need to beat the other two people in their group. It'll also give players in groups where players abandon the tourney a smaller advantage because they will still have to be better than one of the two remaining players in their group.

As for a teams tournament, there will probably be so few teams that I think it'd be better to just do an elimination style tournament. For FFA, well, I'm not sure how much the games will be based on luck, but it might still be fun to have one. Possibly have the top two players advance in the initial rounds though.

BTW, if somebody is needed to run the tournaments, I think I can do it...

[Lich_Lord]

Sorry for double posting but I just thought of an idea that isn't really related to tournaments and might not really be worth implementing, but it might add some more variation to conquest.

So the idea is: At the start of the game, instead of automatically being given a unit (master swordsman), you could pick who your leader is. Different leaders would give different, minor bonuses.
A couple examples (these possibilities aren't balanced, but provide an example of what it could be like):
The Farmer: For each 5 workers you have, you gain one more income.
The Militiaman: Militia get 12-2 instead of 10-2
The Captain: All ships that cost 15 or more gold cost 1 less gold
The Commander: LT's and Generals cost one less gold
The Knight: Knights and mounted generals cost one less gold
The Economist: For every 15 base income you have, you get +1 income
The Spy: 50% chance to see how much gold and income a player of your choice has at the start of your turn.
The Engineer: All units get 2% more def when fortified
The Populist: starts with 1 or 2 more gold at the start of the game
The Capitalist: +1 income

The possibilities are practically limitless, but it'll be hard to create balanced leaders.

[SlowThinker]

It may be fun for the players but I don't see a big strategic effect. It would induce a strategic effect for example if some starting positions would be better for some leaders and other positions for other leaders.
(Anyway the idea doesn't fit to the simple "Minus" concept.)

The possibilities are practically limitless, but it'll be hard to create balanced leaders.

The game is so unbalanced already, and so this is not a problem IMO.