An idea about trolls

[Velensk]

You say that the match-up will become less about trolls bashing each other and more about grunts slashing each other. This is not an inherent advantage but the connotations are an immensely more interesting match-up if it works (though I'm not convinced that it will result in that). If more of your line is grunts then assassins become more useful (you cannot break a troll line with assassins and trolls can eat assassins, grunts eat assassins even worse but you can still spread the poison). If assassins/archers become more useful then so do goblins.

EDIT: Also, grunts can break grunt lines much easier than trolls can break troll lines.

I mentioned in my first post that I do not consider the change against drakes to be a problem because I have never seen a good northerner player recruit trolls against drakes in any case therefore the fact that they are slightly less useful still shouldn't be much of an issue.

[leocrotta]

I basically agree with Huumy and Kolbur.
I think the benefits we'd get from that "differently" played mirror are not
as profitable as keeping the old troll which plays a specific role in defense
against the three fire-factions. Even versus Drakes a troll can be pretty
useful e.g. on smaller maps like Onis if it comes to defensive play.
Changing the troll would affect those three matchups.
In the same breath: imho "inter-balancing" is more important than "intra-balancing".
Additionally quite many players don't even play mirrors at all, resulting
in the change being even less profitable.
Thus I vote against the change.

[Doc Paterson]

Either way, a "no mirror match" button would be a wonderful option. I'd guess that the majority of 1v1 players would love it.

[Kolbur]

About trolls being useless vs Drakes:
It may not be the best unit in this match up, but there are still several ways to end up with them anyway. If you need to defend a mountain you want a troll on it. They are also pretty useful vs saurians when there are some around. You can have a troll in your initial recruit. And worst of all: your leader can be a troll. So the argument that trolls are not useful in this match up is not very strong, because there will be a different balance.

Either way, a "no mirror match" button would be a wonderful option. I'd guess that the majority of 1v1 players would love it.

Indeed.

[leocrotta]

Either way, a "no mirror match" button would be a wonderful option. I'd guess that the majority of 1v1 players would love it.

Well yes, that's what Captain Subtext said, nevertheless the button isn't the one deciding about the troll.
It's just a parallel consequence of players avoiding mirrors, though good for it to be mentioned again.

[silent]

About trolls being useless vs Drakes:
It may not be the best unit in this match up, but there are still several ways to end up with them anyway. If you need to defend a mountain you want a troll on it. They are also pretty useful vs saurians when there are some around. You can have a troll in your initial recruit. And worst of all: your leader can be a troll. So the argument that trolls are not useful in this match up is not very strong, because there will be a different balance.

I'm not quite sure about that logic there Kolbur. For one thing, why would the drake player wish to attack a troll whelp on a mountain when there are most likely other weaker targets around, or why not simply fly around it and ignore it? Also, with an initial recruit of a troll, you are most likely doing so without the prior knowledge your opponent has drakes as their faction, which I feel nullifies the argument somewhat.

As for the troll leader problem, I don't see why the following bit of law could be implemented, assuming the fire weakness is implemented upon the whelp.

"As the troll has grown and thus has become an extension of the bedrock from which it is thought to have originated from, it has become resistant to fire, losing the weakness to fire it once had as it was growing from the whelp stage" (Yes I cannot write creative at all )

Finally, as for the loyalist/elves and the mage unit, I suppose cost could be taken into account here, that you have to pay 7g more than your opponent payed for the troll whelp, and that it would hamper defensive efforts when it is the northerners turn to attack. Also, forgive this next sentence as northerners are one of my worst factions to play with, but do they always have to be able to spam and block out the opponent at the opponents preferred ToD? Is retreat not an option here?

In short, I agree with Velensk, though the anti-mirror match idea would be nice too.

Just my 2 cents though.

[Velensk]

I think that lack of attention to 'intra-race balancing' may be one of the reasons people dislike mirrors so much. The absolute worst mirror IMO is the knalgan mirror but I didn't have any ideas for small changes that would not affect other match-ups much to improve it. I used to find undead mirrors worth of restarting but since the change to adepts they've become fairly fun and definately not grounds for an immediate restart (though others may disagree, more hassle to them).

[psychic]

I absolutely agree with Valensk wrt knalgan mirror. I would like to suggest a different fix for this problem, make the mountain defense 55% from 60%. This way there is no difference against mage using factions and only slightly weaker against drakes.