FINISHED - metal sparkle animation, example included
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Re: REQUEST - metal sparkle animation, example included
@ groovy: looks good, I'll work on a commit.
Note: since we're sane, we're quite open to individual requests for certain graphics to be open-licensed. It's quite plausible for us to do that with the more reuseable/generic elements, whereas character-specific stuff is less likely to be opened.
That said, we have GPLed some of our old tiles, and we've also GPLed all of our audio loops, (which are kinda shared between wesnoth, allacrost, and frogatto).
Frogatto's code is GPL, frogatto's art and music are "all rights reserved".Beetlenaut wrote:@Jet: Is your side project GPL?
Note: since we're sane, we're quite open to individual requests for certain graphics to be open-licensed. It's quite plausible for us to do that with the more reuseable/generic elements, whereas character-specific stuff is less likely to be opened.
No, I can't - once an item is GPL, it's not GPL "for one project"; it's just GPL. Period. For everything. I could grant special permission for individual entities to use things, but that's not GPL, and wesnoth doesn't accept anything that isn't GPL.Zarel wrote:For reference, it is possible to dual-license your work, Jetrel. You can give the same piece of artwork a proprietary license for Frogatto, and an open license for Wesnoth.
That said, we have GPLed some of our old tiles, and we've also GPLed all of our audio loops, (which are kinda shared between wesnoth, allacrost, and frogatto).
You're free to derive from it by creating your own. By all means, please do heavily derive/copy-paste from mine, but at the least, you'll have to impose your color table on it to look decent. ( a similar color table to the crystals from which it comes.Beetlenaut wrote:@Jet: Is your side project GPL? I was trying to work out how to make a good-looking sparkle for some crystals in a cave, and then you post one! Can I use it? I'd like to use something different from what may become a leader animation. (I noticed the same thing you did about the frame rate of sparkles in a earlier project of mine.)
Play Frogatto & Friends - a finished, open-source adventure game!
Re: REQUEST - metal sparkle animation, example included
It would be GPL for the whole world (i.e. for everyone who took it from Wesnoth), but it can on the same time have your proprietary license for use in Frogatto, and even more other licences.Jetrel wrote:No, I can't - once an item is GPL, it's not GPL "for one project"; it's just GPL. Period. For everything. I could grant special permission for individual entities to use things, but that's not GPL, and wesnoth doesn't accept anything that isn't GPL.Zarel wrote:For reference, it is possible to dual-license your work, Jetrel. You can give the same piece of artwork a proprietary license for Frogatto, and an open license for Wesnoth.
(I do not advocate this, only wanting to clarify.)
- thespaceinvader
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Re: REQUEST - metal sparkle animation, example included
Well yes - the point here is that the freedoms of GPL make the restrictive license irrelevant. If you can obtain the image (for instance) under GPL, then you can get it from the GPL project, whether it;s licensed restrictively in the non GPL one or not.
Noone's saying dual licensing is not possible - but it removes the point of one of the licenses.
Noone's saying dual licensing is not possible - but it removes the point of one of the licenses.
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Re: REQUEST - metal sparkle animation, example included
Wow, that would actually be my first original work to be committed. The only other ones so far has been a recolour of the old troll portrait (when the trolls turned from green to grey) and village designs that were pixelpainted by someone else. Would this qualify for an entry in the credits?Jetrel wrote:@ groovy: looks good, I'll work on a commit.
Tiedäthän kuinka pelataan.
Tiedäthän, vihtahousua vastaan.
Tiedäthän, solmu kravatin, se kantaa niin synnit
kuin syntien tekijätkin.
Tiedäthän, vihtahousua vastaan.
Tiedäthän, solmu kravatin, se kantaa niin synnit
kuin syntien tekijätkin.
- thespaceinvader
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Re: REQUEST - metal sparkle animation, example included
Definitely IMO. Had it been me committing your earlier stuff, you would have been in already
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Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.
Re: REQUEST - metal sparkle animation, example included
You don't understand this. Read TSI's post.pauxlo wrote:It would be GPL for the whole world (i.e. for everyone who took it from Wesnoth), but it can on the same time have your proprietary license for use in Frogatto, and even more other licences.
(I do not advocate this, only wanting to clarify.)
If you're confused because of, say, trolltech's QT: That kind of Dual-licensing only makes sense when you're, say, selling code that someone wants to integrate into a larger closed-source codebase of their own - This is a great economic incentive when the customer absolutely does NOT want the GPL, and is willing to pay thousands of dollars to not have to GPL their own work.
However, this offers zero protection against some guy like Kyle Poole basically coming in, finding this game I spent a couple years making, and deciding that he's going to make all the money on it, rather than me. The GPL offers no way to guarantee that we're the only people who can make money off of it. It allows anyone to sell it, and if they happen to not have to do all the other fussy work of "actually making the game", they'll be much better at selling and marketing it than us. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with him doing that on wesnoth. Wesnoth was a big community project, and he had to do a lot of hard (and subsequently GPLed) work to do it. I didn't expect to ever make a dime off my work here.
But I'd have a huge problem if anyone did it to something me and a few other guys did all the work on, and were collectively hoping to cash in on. In fact, I would be a buffoon. A tragic fool.
This is why a huge and impossible-to-trivially-duplicate portion of frogatto is completely "rights reserved". Look on the bright side - we've discovered a way to make money that still allows us to open source stuff at all.
Play Frogatto & Friends - a finished, open-source adventure game!
Re: REQUEST - metal sparkle animation, example included
Somehow this discussion reminds me of what happened with Nexuiz, though I'm no expert in licensing affairs.
Re: REQUEST - metal sparkle animation, example included
Sometimes one smiley is really enough:Jetrel wrote:some guy like Kyle Poole ...
But we are getting far off track here. Splitting time?
Re: REQUEST - metal sparkle animation, example included
I'm sure people don't have enough to rip off Frogatto just because a GPL version of its sparkle animation exists. That's what I was suggesting... Telling someone to rip off your sparkle animation isn't much different from just dual-licensing it as GPL, neither from a legal standpoint nor from a pragmatic one.Jetrel wrote:However, this offers zero protection against some guy like Kyle Poole basically coming in, finding this game I spent a couple years making, and deciding that he's going to make all the money on it, rather than me. The GPL offers no way to guarantee that we're the only people who can make money off of it. It allows anyone to sell it, and if they happen to not have to do all the other fussy work of "actually making the game", they'll be much better at selling and marketing it than us. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with him doing that on wesnoth. Wesnoth was a big community project, and he had to do a lot of hard (and subsequently GPLed) work to do it. I didn't expect to ever make a dime off my work here.
Proud creator of the :whistle: smiley | I prefer the CC-0 license.
Re: REQUEST - metal sparkle animation, example included
My point was that they could rip off frogatto if if ALL of Frogatto was GPL. Like wesnoth is.Zarel wrote:I'm sure people don't have enough to rip off Frogatto just because a GPL version of its sparkle animation exists.
In this case, I didn't want to license it, because I wanted wesnoth to have a unique one. And lo and behold, there it is. If you have any requests about reusing specific animations or such, ask away.That's what I was suggesting... Telling someone to rip off your sparkle animation isn't much different from just dual-licensing it as GPL, neither from a legal standpoint nor from a pragmatic one.
I don't begrudge him, because he and I have similar goals - not working sh1tty jobs we hate.Gambit wrote:Sometimes one smiley is really enough:Jetrel wrote:some guy like Kyle Poole ...
But he's a powerful example, to show that this is a very real danger for saleable IP. In fact I don't know of a better one.
I didn't want any yap about how that might not actually happen. The greek chorus of freetards usually start screeching at this point about how everything should be open-source, and I wanted some rigor to my argument that that might really hurt me.
I'm the moderator, and this thread doesn't need to be split - the thread is mostly finished, since the request has been fulfilled.Gambit wrote:But we are getting far off track here. Splitting time?
Re: REQUEST - metal sparkle animation, example included
Hrm.Jetrel wrote:I don't begrudge him, because he and I have similar goals - not working sh1tty jobs we hate.
But he's a powerful example, to show that this is a very real danger for saleable IP. In fact I don't know of a better one.
I didn't want any yap about how that might not actually happen. The greek chorus of freetards usually start screeching at this point about how everything should be open-source, and I wanted some rigor to my argument that that might really hurt me.
How's about CC-BY-NC? Enables some level of freedom, without letting people profit off you.
Semi-closed platforms like the iPhone are really the only situation where that matters significantly, though. And even then, I suppose someone could resubmit the app for free. I haven't done it so far because it would be what we Americans colloquially refer to as a "dick move", but it's an option.
Proud creator of the :whistle: smiley | I prefer the CC-0 license.
- jaimeastorga2000
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Re: REQUEST - metal sparkle animation, example included
I don't think that'd work for the purposes of inclusion in Wesnoth. As far as I know, every one of the 6 main CC licenses is incompatible with the GPL (the FSF specifically mentions that CC-BY and CC-BY-SA are incompatible, at least), which is the license under which all Wesnoth art is published.Zarel wrote:How's about CC-BY-NC? Enables some level of freedom, without letting people profit off you.
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Re: REQUEST - metal sparkle animation, example included
Saying that the two licenses are "incompatible" doesn't necessarily mean that Wesnoth couldn't license its code under GPL and its art and music under some variant of Creative Commons (almost certainly with a Share-Alike provision). However, it is almost certain that that would result in weird situations where you could use one part of the project but not the other.jaimeastorga2000 wrote:I don't think that'd work for the purposes of inclusion in Wesnoth. As far as I know, every one of the 6 main CC licenses is incompatible with the GPL (the FSF specifically mentions that CC-BY and CC-BY-SA are incompatible, at least), which is the license under which all Wesnoth art is published.
As far as I can tell from a quick jaunt through Westlaw, nobody has published a legal analysis of the likely results of combining GPL-copyrighted code with CC-copyrighted art in this way. Given the relatively sparse litigation of GPL and CC copyrights to date, I suppose that's not surprising. It might make for an interesting law review article for someone interested in Intellectual Property - perhaps I'll ask Moglen's opinion next time I see him.
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Re: REQUEST - metal sparkle animation, example included
I'm talking about Frogatto, not Wesnoth. CC-BY-NC obviously doesn't work for FOSS works.jaimeastorga2000 wrote:I don't think that'd work for the purposes of inclusion in Wesnoth. As far as I know, every one of the 6 main CC licenses is incompatible with the GPL (the FSF specifically mentions that CC-BY and CC-BY-SA are incompatible, at least), which is the license under which all Wesnoth art is published.
Proud creator of the :whistle: smiley | I prefer the CC-0 license.
Re: REQUEST - metal sparkle animation, example included
Emphasis mine. A strong possibility - people crack software for the same 'moral' imperative of imposing "free as in beer" on other people's stuff. Which is why I'm choosing not to release the rights for now.Zarel wrote:How's about CC-BY-NC? Enables some level of freedom, without letting people profit off you.
Semi-closed platforms like the iPhone are really the only situation where that matters significantly, though. And even then, I suppose someone could resubmit the app for free. I haven't done it so far because it would be what we Americans colloquially refer to as a "ass move", but it's an option.
Actually, kyle already might have had to compete with that, I believe. I'll have to check, but I do think someone uploaded a free-as-in-beer version of wesnoth at some point. Fortunately for Kyle, he's quite good at what he does, and wesnoth is really difficult to make playable on the iPhone, so the free-as-in-beer version was so bad that I guess it was forgotten. Or might have been rejected/removed. I'll have to check in on that - I don't know if I heard a bogus rumor or not.
Play Frogatto & Friends - a finished, open-source adventure game!