Gryphon Lancer
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Gryphon Lancer
Here are two proposals. Copy/paste work from the excellent pieces of fmunoz.
The first rider is the one from the Paladin sprite. If I noticed corectly, according to the pointy ears, the Paladin is an Elf. So I thought that would be reasonable if the Gryphon Lancer get such rider. And I love the idea of sky rider that's using Lance as weapon.
The second one have the head changed and used the one from the elvish champion.
I adjusted the colors so that I get green/red combination, because that's the one that's been used on the elvish higher level units. But when I think now, the Avenger has purple colors on him as well as the elven lord, so maybe I should change the red color with purple, and it will also look better I think.
One idea that I have if you don't like him using lance, is to give him big snake-shaped sword.
Please give your opinions/suggestion.
The first rider is the one from the Paladin sprite. If I noticed corectly, according to the pointy ears, the Paladin is an Elf. So I thought that would be reasonable if the Gryphon Lancer get such rider. And I love the idea of sky rider that's using Lance as weapon.
The second one have the head changed and used the one from the elvish champion.
I adjusted the colors so that I get green/red combination, because that's the one that's been used on the elvish higher level units. But when I think now, the Avenger has purple colors on him as well as the elven lord, so maybe I should change the red color with purple, and it will also look better I think.
One idea that I have if you don't like him using lance, is to give him big snake-shaped sword.
Please give your opinions/suggestion.
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Woodwizzle
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Looks nice but still looks a lot like the original gryphon rider. I vote for changing the riders colors, there are enough red elven units already. I think the gryphon should look like it leveled up too, not just the rider if you get me. I might suggest making the lance a tad londer if possible and maybe painted so that it stands out a bit more too.
Okay, firstly, horsemen/knights/paladin were originally drawn as elvish units, but they are meant to be human.
I think that gryphon riders are perhaps more suitable as human units. Gryphons in Wesnoth are not highly intelligent creatures, but they are more intelligent than animals, and they tend toward being chaotic/evil.
I don't think an Elf would ride one. They would ride perhaps giant eagles. A human who trained a gryphon from youth, like Konrad's soldiers do in the campaign could ride one.
Also, the gryphon has huge wings. It's hard to imagine making it look any more glorious in its second level than it is in its first. So, how about making it look less glorious as a first level unit? Make the gryphon rider unit have smaller wings, since it's only an adolescent gryphon, and make the second-level gryphon unit the full-grown version like it is now. That'd make the units look quite a bit different, and the second level version rather distinctive.
Remember Svetac, these are mainly just suggestions, and you've done a great job with it so far. You have the artistic freedom to do it however you want
David
I think that gryphon riders are perhaps more suitable as human units. Gryphons in Wesnoth are not highly intelligent creatures, but they are more intelligent than animals, and they tend toward being chaotic/evil.
I don't think an Elf would ride one. They would ride perhaps giant eagles. A human who trained a gryphon from youth, like Konrad's soldiers do in the campaign could ride one.
Also, the gryphon has huge wings. It's hard to imagine making it look any more glorious in its second level than it is in its first. So, how about making it look less glorious as a first level unit? Make the gryphon rider unit have smaller wings, since it's only an adolescent gryphon, and make the second-level gryphon unit the full-grown version like it is now. That'd make the units look quite a bit different, and the second level version rather distinctive.
Remember Svetac, these are mainly just suggestions, and you've done a great job with it so far. You have the artistic freedom to do it however you want
David
“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming
As I have already said, I don't see elves using lances, it just does not seem to fit the elvish way. I don't think elves should ride great eagles, instead as friends of animals they would have alliance with some animals... great eagle would fight for elves... without rider.
Elves riding Gryphons is fine, maybe elves asked Gryphons to help them (Konrad stole the eggs, not the elves). Still as Dave said gryphons might suite better for humans. Though humans are starting to have a lot of units, enough for two human factions?
- Miyo
Elves riding Gryphons is fine, maybe elves asked Gryphons to help them (Konrad stole the eggs, not the elves). Still as Dave said gryphons might suite better for humans. Though humans are starting to have a lot of units, enough for two human factions?
- Miyo
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yawningdog
- Posts: 96
- Joined: October 5th, 2003, 10:04 pm
- Location: Barcelona
I remember discussing the issue with elves and gryphon riders a while ago. I think it was with miyo, here on the forum, should look for the post. Anyway, Gryphons are big, mean creatures who (IMO) suit better a human rider. Elves could ride pegasus or eagles instead. Compared to gryphons they are fast, swift and elegant, though not so strong in combat.
And I like the idea of two human factions (Northern VS Wesnoth?).
And I like the idea of two human factions (Northern VS Wesnoth?).
Good job 
They are way better than my lancer.
As for the the human/elven debate about who should ride the gryphon, I would say that it is the elves, because they are a lot wilder than human and are thus more capable to to adapt to the gryphon. Humen are a lot more military-oriented, so they should have only have animals that can be trained easily for war : horses, dogs, elephants (this one not for BfW), and others "real world" animals.
They are way better than my lancer. As for the the human/elven debate about who should ride the gryphon, I would say that it is the elves, because they are a lot wilder than human and are thus more capable to to adapt to the gryphon. Humen are a lot more military-oriented, so they should have only have animals that can be trained easily for war : horses, dogs, elephants (this one not for BfW), and others "real world" animals.
Making the Gryphon Rider human would be done in combination with a change to multiplayer that I have talked about before: instead of having strict delineration into races, we would have different factions: the Loyalists, who are composed mostly of disciplined military units, the Rebels, who are composed mostly of Elves, a few human units (including the Gryphon Rider, and Horsemen), and perhaps Dwarves, the Northerners, composed mostly of Orcs, and the Undead.
“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming
But I would mind if there's overlaping of units in the human towns. Only that should be avoided. The rest sounds good. However, for MP, I would prefer races split this way:
1. Human Loyalists composed, as you said Dave, of loyal military troops.
2. Human Rebels composed of noble human units, Horseman and Gryphon Rider included here as human units. Knights and Lancers share similar attack philosophy, so it would be great to unite them. Human rangers can be added in the line up too, as well as some sort of Battle Clerics.
3. Elves as separate race, with Elvish Scout and Elvish Avenger as Second level of him, and why not Pegasus Champion as flies substitute for the Gryphon Rider?
4. Dwarves, with Boar Rider added there, and cool dwarven unit with whirlwind attack (it attacks all surrounding hexes with one whirlwind attack, wielding two axes), Dwarven Lord perhaps, and some sort of Rune Reader as spellcaster.
5. Orcs
6. Undead, possibly with Vampires added in the lineup.
I would suggest that even if the Rebels town is to contain some elven units, they should not be shared with the pure elven side, but instead original to the rebel town. Also Merman and Naga should be taken out of the Human/Orc town in Multiplayer, and maybe made accesible to each race trough coastal Merman/Naga villages/outposts where they can be recruited.
1. Human Loyalists composed, as you said Dave, of loyal military troops.
2. Human Rebels composed of noble human units, Horseman and Gryphon Rider included here as human units. Knights and Lancers share similar attack philosophy, so it would be great to unite them. Human rangers can be added in the line up too, as well as some sort of Battle Clerics.
3. Elves as separate race, with Elvish Scout and Elvish Avenger as Second level of him, and why not Pegasus Champion as flies substitute for the Gryphon Rider?
4. Dwarves, with Boar Rider added there, and cool dwarven unit with whirlwind attack (it attacks all surrounding hexes with one whirlwind attack, wielding two axes), Dwarven Lord perhaps, and some sort of Rune Reader as spellcaster.
5. Orcs
6. Undead, possibly with Vampires added in the lineup.
I would suggest that even if the Rebels town is to contain some elven units, they should not be shared with the pure elven side, but instead original to the rebel town. Also Merman and Naga should be taken out of the Human/Orc town in Multiplayer, and maybe made accesible to each race trough coastal Merman/Naga villages/outposts where they can be recruited.
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yawningdog
- Posts: 96
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Svetac: Well, I am the poor fellow who did some of the dwarvish aberratio... erhm, units. I'm not an artist, they were ment more as working prototypes or mockups so true gifted people would take on the idea and "do them right", and rip offs of fmunoz's artwork.
Board riders: could be great. I proposed some sort of "lizard riders" (take a look at my avatar).
Rune reader: did a Rune Master some time ago. Look at Circon's avatar (it's amazing someone uses it as his avatar, hehe). He has lightning and hammer atacks, and I asked Dave for a "magical resistance" skill (he didn't quite like the sound of it
).
Attacking all near hexes: could be interesting for certain attacks, but take into account that each hex is hundreds of meters wide (or something like that - a unit does more or less 25 hexes per day on average - did I get this well?).
I would also like to see a Dwarvish Explorer (upgrade to the thunderer?), and an engineer.
But we are going off topic here, hehe.
Board riders: could be great. I proposed some sort of "lizard riders" (take a look at my avatar).
Rune reader: did a Rune Master some time ago. Look at Circon's avatar (it's amazing someone uses it as his avatar, hehe). He has lightning and hammer atacks, and I asked Dave for a "magical resistance" skill (he didn't quite like the sound of it
).Attacking all near hexes: could be interesting for certain attacks, but take into account that each hex is hundreds of meters wide (or something like that - a unit does more or less 25 hexes per day on average - did I get this well?).
I would also like to see a Dwarvish Explorer (upgrade to the thunderer?), and an engineer.
But we are going off topic here, hehe.
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yawningdog
- Posts: 96
- Joined: October 5th, 2003, 10:04 pm
- Location: Barcelona
Oh, I forgot YASS (Yet Another Silly Suggestion). Instead of just 'factions', what about "army lists"? You could have several different lists per faction, depending on the historical time frame, for example. Each list would modifiy the recruitable units, and possibly their costs; and perhaps even slight variations on unit attributes (that would be nice 
).
That way you could play with troops from Asheviere's royal guard (expensive troops, all with +1 hand to hand damage and +10% hit poitns) against western rebels (cheap mages and noble horsemen), or Northern Elves VS Southern orcs, or... well, you get the idea.
).That way you could play with troops from Asheviere's royal guard (expensive troops, all with +1 hand to hand damage and +10% hit poitns) against western rebels (cheap mages and noble horsemen), or Northern Elves VS Southern orcs, or... well, you get the idea.