Imperial Era and Extended Era for mainline
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Imperial Era and Extended Era for mainline
whenever I download a new version of wesnoth, the first add-ons I get are IE and EE. They are both complete and well-known to most wesnoth users, as well as being very enjoyable. So why aren't they included in mainline?
the only issues I can see is balance, but i'm sure if we work together we can fix that without much difficulty.
the only issues I can see is balance, but i'm sure if we work together we can fix that without much difficulty.
Re: Imperial Era and Extended Era for mainline
Because of lack of complete animation 
Re: Imperial Era and Extended Era for mainline
If we include something into Mainline it needs to meet basic quality levels. Now, there are obviously many areas to this which others can speak to like art and animation. (I'm pretty sure it does not meet the basic levels though) But the main concern for me is balance, and despite peoples' best efforts, EE is still nowhere near balanced.
Balance is a difficult task. It takes quite a bit of playesting and effort with a large group of experienced players, which does not exist with EE, and is unlikely to in the future. For starters It has too many factions to balance effectively. For the six factions for default it took years of constant work from three mp devs. Personally I don't have the effort or inclination to do it, neither does any of the developers I know or skilled players, with the exception of Noyga (who has made slow progress on it). Bringing it into mainline is unlikely to change the situation appreciably. You're not going to see a major influx of high quality playtesters (EE is already well known on the server) or developer interest if we added it to mainline. So its unlikely to ever go in.
I'm not too sure about the Imperial Era; too few people play it for me to make a judgement on it. From what I've seen its much better than EE, partly because its less expansive. From what I've seen there might be balance issues, (some of the units costs and capabilities seem off) but then again I'm not an expert enough to say whether it is or not.
Balance is a difficult task. It takes quite a bit of playesting and effort with a large group of experienced players, which does not exist with EE, and is unlikely to in the future. For starters It has too many factions to balance effectively. For the six factions for default it took years of constant work from three mp devs. Personally I don't have the effort or inclination to do it, neither does any of the developers I know or skilled players, with the exception of Noyga (who has made slow progress on it). Bringing it into mainline is unlikely to change the situation appreciably. You're not going to see a major influx of high quality playtesters (EE is already well known on the server) or developer interest if we added it to mainline. So its unlikely to ever go in.
I'm not too sure about the Imperial Era; too few people play it for me to make a judgement on it. From what I've seen its much better than EE, partly because its less expansive. From what I've seen there might be balance issues, (some of the units costs and capabilities seem off) but then again I'm not an expert enough to say whether it is or not.
I suspect having one foot in the past is the best way to understand the present.
Don Hewitt.
Don Hewitt.
Re: Imperial Era and Extended Era for mainline
that and the fact that its UMC with tons of new abilities and traits that dont exist in the default 6 factions.
imagine you and 5 friends shop at the same store. you dont dress the same but your options for what you wear are the same and there is overlap and mixing/matching.
now 6 other people that shop at another store come along with all these wacky things youve never heard of or seen.
it just doesnt look coherent.
to make EE and IE units mainline youd either have to get rid of everything that makes them cool in the first place, or you have to spend 4-5 years working thier stuff into the original 6 factions.
that is... if you want them combined... which i imagine you would... otherwise theres really no point in adding them in the first place. just keep downloading.
ALSO if they were added you would only get to update them every time theres a new wesnoth version instead of recieving near instant bug fixes and new content like you do now in the addon state.
when stuff goes mainline it gets stagnated.
imagine you and 5 friends shop at the same store. you dont dress the same but your options for what you wear are the same and there is overlap and mixing/matching.
now 6 other people that shop at another store come along with all these wacky things youve never heard of or seen.
it just doesnt look coherent.
to make EE and IE units mainline youd either have to get rid of everything that makes them cool in the first place, or you have to spend 4-5 years working thier stuff into the original 6 factions.
that is... if you want them combined... which i imagine you would... otherwise theres really no point in adding them in the first place. just keep downloading.
ALSO if they were added you would only get to update them every time theres a new wesnoth version instead of recieving near instant bug fixes and new content like you do now in the addon state.
when stuff goes mainline it gets stagnated.
Re: Imperial Era and Extended Era for mainline
IE shouldn't go mainline because (unlike the EE, which AFAIK isn't any fantasy setting whatsoever, but just a bunch of factions) it is set in a very specific fantasy universe that is not the same as the world Wesnoth is set in. To have them both be mainline would just be confusing unless we were going to also open it up to having non-Wesnothian mainline campaigns. And we would still need some way of distinguishing them.
What I could imagine is some easy way of doing "mods" - so, if you installed one, then when you started Wesnoth it would say "which do you want to load? [Wesnoth] [Orbivm] [Thunderstone]...". And then once you made that choice, it would bring you to a completely different game - a different main screen background and logo, a different campaign list, a different default MP era, etc. If that were done, then I think it might be a good idea to "mainline" Orbivm - as long as I was allowed to include in Orbivm whatever eras and campaigns I wanted to (there will end up being 5 eras of different sizes - one has only two factions). Even then I don't think it would necessarily be a good idea, and it might be better to leave it as a separate download (perhaps with its own debian package to facilitate access to it, etc).
Of course, I have absolutely no expectation of that ever happening (at least not all of it; some sort of mod system really would be nice, though).
At the moment the only thing that would really be nice and perhaps even has a chance of happening is - a better way for IE players to give feedback on the balance. I know they can always come to the forums and give feedback there, and even upload replays, but that takes effort on their part. Some way for their replays to be automatically uploaded (if they agree to it, of course), and then I could go download them and watch them, would be quite nice. This would be nice for all era and campaign maintainers, actually.
What I could imagine is some easy way of doing "mods" - so, if you installed one, then when you started Wesnoth it would say "which do you want to load? [Wesnoth] [Orbivm] [Thunderstone]...". And then once you made that choice, it would bring you to a completely different game - a different main screen background and logo, a different campaign list, a different default MP era, etc. If that were done, then I think it might be a good idea to "mainline" Orbivm - as long as I was allowed to include in Orbivm whatever eras and campaigns I wanted to (there will end up being 5 eras of different sizes - one has only two factions). Even then I don't think it would necessarily be a good idea, and it might be better to leave it as a separate download (perhaps with its own debian package to facilitate access to it, etc).
Of course, I have absolutely no expectation of that ever happening (at least not all of it; some sort of mod system really would be nice, though).
At the moment the only thing that would really be nice and perhaps even has a chance of happening is - a better way for IE players to give feedback on the balance. I know they can always come to the forums and give feedback there, and even upload replays, but that takes effort on their part. Some way for their replays to be automatically uploaded (if they agree to it, of course), and then I could go download them and watch them, would be quite nice. This would be nice for all era and campaign maintainers, actually.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
Re: Imperial Era and Extended Era for mainline
such as? I ask becaue I cannot recall off the top of my head any abilities/traits that are in EE or IE and yet not in mainline.that and the fact that its UMC with tons of new abilities and traits that dont exist in the default 6 factions.
But yeah, i guess I forgot IE was in a different world. oops
sorry for wasting your time.
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Akkarin345
- Posts: 429
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Re: Imperial Era and Extended Era for mainline
Rage for one which is a tonned down version of a beserk, this means that it is not nearly impossible for an unarmed warrior to die by beserkers/ragers. This is done by setting a number of turns the attack happens. Also inspire which is like illumination really if i remember correctly. This is in IE by the way i don't play enough of EE to say.