Era of Myths How to play

[Velensk]

I don't know why, but I don't realy enjoy playing devilings, but I can see why other people do. However I do have to say that they are definatly the hardest faction to balance. It's hard to find the point between their cheapness and cost efficency/low upkeep, their unparralled village stealing, and how utterly quickly they die.

[Sombra]

I thnink the biggest problem with the EOM or EE is simply that they are so mcuh more powerful than the standart era.

Its like some factions are made as they should have any weaknesses:for example Kalifas, Clestials...Great defense values, great ranged and close combat stats etc.... Its hard to use the these factions within a nomral game ... they simply pawn the standart factions. I thibnk this is one of of the reasons you see them used in survival maps.

To get a better understanding of the balance between the EOM factions.. convince the wesnoth ladder upkeepr to allow EOM matches to count for ladder games even if the factions are not blanced yet...but at the moment nobody really knows which are the best ones do we? At least quite a few decent players would perhaps play more EOM games

[Velensk]

I don't think that the EoM factions are actulay that much more powerfull than their default counterparts. However they certainly arn't balanced against them.

Celestials do have a weakness it is that they don't hit very hard unless you can pile all of thier modifiers up, and even then they don't hit as hard as loyalists. Take as an example wizards vs mages, at day they would do 6-4 and 9-3 respectivly if you apply inspire to the wizard then it is 7-4 and 9-3, the mage still has more firepower. However the celestial has two advantages, one is that for him it will be day more often, and he has more hp. If you compare legionairs to spearmen you get a simular effect, except that spearmen are cheaper, more fragile, and have a ranged attack, but for all that if both of them have daylight, and the legionair has inspire, the spearman still does more damage (9-3 spearman 8-3 legionair).

The thing here is that the celestials only come out as be that just slightly better over-all if they have messangers and light spirts around, if those units are killed or if they are forced to split up, then the celestials lack firepower. Light spirts are great things, they help the celestials out extensivly at all times except the ToD where celestals are most likely to be in the heat off an offence (ok they are fast low damage arcane archers, but they don't justify their cost realy), and other lawful factions can take advantage of them too.

Now this is not saying that that match-up is balanced, infact I have not checked it for balance, but it is saying that they are closer than you may think.

As for your suggestion, I would like to try to host an Era of Myths turnament, after the next release comes out. I'm not going to try to pitch it to the ladder, because I don't think that it would work better if I tried to get people intrested in it specificaly, rather than trying to seed a little of an already estalblished tradition which as near as I can tell has no intrest in EoM whatsoever. I think that a turnament might attract intrest of good players for long enough to try it, and would help me get good balancing feedback.

[Mabuse]

umm, i didnt wanted to suggest that Celestials are better than Loyalists or something (in fact i would say that i am always able to fight with Loyalists versus EE or EOM factions)

no, its just that i really like the celestials, they are really a nice Faction.
as you mentioned, the "problem" (well, its no real problem, its just somethign you have to adapt to) with celestials is, that they need a certain amount of units (gold) before you feel really convenient, since you need 33 gold for the "basic" light-spirit" and "messenger" (or 30 gold for 2 light spirits ?), a standard loyalist has 2 more spearman for that in field early on (question is if he can make a use out of it).

starting with more gold reduces this felt "lack of units", but the ability of the celestials to fight at any day-time and make use of the daylight-bonus is huge


of course i also like other factions

but go for a Tournament - i would join (though i am not best player of course)

[Velensk]

I was refering to Sombra's post.

[Mabuse]

oh

well, in the tournament i may use loyalists, lets see how far i come

[Velensk]

I'd think I'd have to insist that only EoM factions are used consitering what the point of it is.

[Sombra]

Velensk I would love to play in a EOM tournament. Please just put strict rules regarding playing times etc.

Regarding the balance of factions...

MY preferred faction is usally Develings...they suit my playing style ..the descriptions are very cute..and they are very unique
I got overrun by them a few times ...was overrunning half a dozen players with them..thought they were overpowerded and got pawned by the windsong...

Regarding celestials... If they have time they are an awesome force as they can fight around the clock with the light spirits and leadership. Even more important small maps like Isar is: Their units are very able to handle the special units of the enemy (for example weakness against arcane) . The crusaders "small healing" is very strong but more importantly it prevents the devasting effect of poison => "Therians Snakes " Helpful as well is that they dont really have fragile units, every and each one of them is decent on its own.

Regarding the discussion about "the Therians" and the number of factions.

Yes the more factions the harder it is to get the balance right. But I think they have very unique units and would really hate to see them go. The least original faction in EOM for me is the "vampire" faction but even them they are fun to play.

[Velensk]

As I said in that thread I don't intend to get rid of any of them.

Devilings: are overpowerd atm, and they can beat windsong if played correctly (though maybe not on small maps). Gatekeepers are very slow, and can be taken down by cursers, and flappers, and of course the deviling village stealing combo. I still need to figure out what I can do to them that won't kill them in the next version.

Celestials: each celestail unit is decent, but slightly overpriced without modifiers, and underpriced with modifers.
Crusaders/zelots have little hp. Crusaders arn't a great unit for itself, but it's healing is undenyably useful.

As it stands the changes I'm planning to make in the next version will result in
- Celestals are getting a very slight nerf
- Therians are getting a slight nerf
- Deviling are getting a nerf of some kind
- Elementals are getting a slight buff
- Vampires are getting a slight buff
- Warg are getting one or more of their units replaced
- No changes are planned for the windsong

[Sombra]

1. Balance


The only time I lost with develings was on Isar and then only against Windsong.... Against all other it was a reincarantion of the "Evil dead" movies . Develings runnning all over the places.....

They are much fun but I admit perhaps "slightly" overpowered. I think there stats are quite fine, problem is that there so many early on. Perhaps simply raise their costs across the board? They still would be a swarming faction but would leave the enemy the chance to get at least better prepared before overrun by the develings army before even having enough units to defend most of his villages?

I am looking forward to the rest of your suggested changes or lets say I am curious how you will change these units.

[Velensk]

I don't think I need to tell you that I don't balance by isars. Infact I have my own map-pack for the era that weeksy will probably publish sometime soon.

Balance of devilings lecture: Devilings require special play to beat, so I'm disinclined to take any balancing from any game where a novice is playing against them (unfortunatly the majority of the games). The problem with increased costs accross the board is that I know personaly, from both ends of the sword, how quickly devlings die if the other player can gain control for even a very short time. On maps such as isar it's pretty much impossible to wrest control from them because there is not enough space, and there are so many of them so quickly. However on a larger map then a player would have a chance to deploy, and in the amounts you would buy them even one gold increase would be a heavy blow. However I know that even on those maps devlings are a little overpowerd simpily because it is incredibly hard to gain control against the swarm. I reckon that increased prices on some units would not be a bad thing, but because devlings buy things en mass if each unit costed an extra gold it would have a incredible effect on them, and without their swarm, devlings don't realy have anything except mobility.

They don't need to be easier to kill, because they already die to one unit on a regular basis, they don't need to hit softer, because they could not aford that, and I would not make them much slower (one planned change is to decrease overgrowns move by one, but I don't think I'm changing the rest). This leaves me with a limited selection of things to modify, which includes price, but I know how much it would underpower them to increase prices across the board.

I think it would work better if I demonstrated on the maps I've designed for the era, maybe we could set up a series of matches sometime.

Since you expressed intrest, my current planned balance changes:
Celestials:
messanger cost to 19
inspire won't boost other messangers
Elementals:
Give A. rock a ranged attack 6-1 impact (stone throw) [rock golum 10-1 (rock throw)]
B creations melee attack from 9-2 to 6-3 and +2hp
Non-life elementals arcane resistance to -10% wind servents weakness to -30%
Therians:
Serpent Therian cost up by one to 15
Monk hp -2
Vampire:
Vampire lines getting a diffrent number of strikes for their fangs
Vampire trait removed allowing for 2 traits
Vampire apprentices wipe attack to 9-2 and hp slightly increased
Warg:
Warg shapshifter to be replaced (when art is complteted) new unit would be a ranged/melee hybrid focused on ranged)
Warg naga to be replaced (when art is completed) new unit would be a nightstalking backstabber
wolf foot movement through water down to 2 as soon as the naga is replaced
devling:
Overgrown devling move down to 5
Price of devling nailer up by 1
price of devling flappers up by one, ranged attack up to 5-2
windsong:
Marksmanship for the bow on the windsong courtier line (I had forgot about this in last post)

[Sombra]

Sounds nice. I especially look forward to the changes in the Werwolf Line.

[Menos]

Just recently downloaded EoM, and I have to say, it's pretty awesome. Just wondering if the current version has the changes you've discussed? If so, I still think deviling is decently overpowered.

As a side note, hope this isn't thread necroing, it's a sticky, so I doubt it, but this is my first time here, and I don't know how things work yet.

[Velensk]

Yes, the changes I discussed have been made (and more, I got allot of playtesting from the EoM tourny that was going not to long ago). Devlings are very tricky, both to play with, play against. I won't say that they are balanced as they are, however I know that they can be beaten by someone who knows what they are doing, when playing against a devling player who knows what he is doing.

[dontano]

I don't know why, but I don't like EoM factions, excluding the Celestials. Celestials are the only faction that I enjoyed: they got speed, power, coordination and good magic. In Orocia, they pwn everything in their way (with a good strategy).