SurvivalXtreme: Version C.01!

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nataS
Posts: 166
Joined: January 28th, 2008, 3:21 pm

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.02

Post by nataS »

Here are some important tips for new SurvivalXtreme players:
1) Focus on either ranged or melee attacks, don't buy both
2) If you have the money, buy more then one type of melee or ranged attack weapons
3) Buy damage upgrades to a 4:1 ratio of damage/strikes

Explanation of point one
It happens so often I see people running around with upgrades for both ranged and melee weapons. This is wrong, and will seriously damage the survival potential of both you and your team. If you have a good build, you can often kill a couple of enemies during one turn. Most of the fighting happens offensively where you can choose the type of attack. Would you spread your money evenly over both ranged and melee damage upgrades, this will result in you doing only half the damage during most of the fights. A good option you do have is getting yourself a slow weapon for the type of attack you didn't choose (either melee or ranged). This results in the attacking enemy doing only half the damage when it hits.

Explanation of point two
Since enemies have several types of resistances it can be a good choice to buy weapons doing different types of damage if you have the money for it. If you do this is usually more effective then buying a lot of expensive damage upgrades right away. For example, if you are a red mage, having a ranged fire attack you do only half damage to dragons (50% fire resist). Buying a ranged weapon with cold damage will however do 50% extra damage to dragons (for they have -50% cold resist). It's important you do this right at the first turn, before you buy damage upgrades. If you don't the extra damage or strikes won't be added to your weapon. When choosing a new weapon, always look for those with special abilities such as "magical" and "marksman" or "focus". They cost a bit extra, but give you a higher chance to hit (always 70%) and "focus" even upgrades your damage when used offensively.

Explanation of point three
This is because extra strikes cost you ~4 times the money of extra damage.

Examples
Image

Riklaunim
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Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.02

Post by Riklaunim »

Example 1: BAD
1. it can use berserk on defence (you can die)
2. low evade
skirmisher with fire berserk yes, skeleton with berserk - yes, depends on map. Ulf - not realy

Example 2: Duelist better - gets crossbow with "high" damage from level2. I usually buy net and fireball at start.

Example 4: energy wave isn't magical... If you go holy mage - take fire, if silver/arch - wave or better cold


Extra note: those upgrades look like done with 800 gold or more. Usually only easy games start at 800. With 400-500 gold you should use unit that doesn't require extra weapons :) like adept, shaman, or skirmishers with berserk if teamplay exists.

nataS
Posts: 166
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Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.02

Post by nataS »

Thanks for the comments, I created some examples to make my suggestions visisble. I used 800 gold because it's easier to make the points that way. I thought about creating some using 400 starting gold too, but most newby games are played with 800 gold anyway.

Even though I didn't try to create a top 5 of best builds, I do believe the ulfserker is quite good (from both it's statistics and my own experience). It's true it doesn't have a good evade, but it's resists are O.K. and it's the only build that allows you to get berserk with two types of damage (fire and blade). I don't recommend the Ulfserker for players both new to wesnoth and SurvivalXtreme, but it's great fun to play!

There are over 40 different heroes to pick from, with only the default SurvivalXtreme era.

Energy Wave (with the focus special) is by far the best weapon. Though this only works when used offensively, it gives your weapon both a 70% chance to hit and 50% extra damage. It costs over 100 gold for a reason, being the most expensive weapon available.

Feel free to create your own examples, selected on how powerful they are if you wish. SXBattle seems quite popular these days, being played with 400 gold (as intended). Some ready made builds might be good, preventing the players to be served as lunch packages time after time within five turns ;)

mihoshi
Posts: 52
Joined: February 16th, 2008, 10:18 pm

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.02

Post by mihoshi »

With 800g bats kill everything. Mostly because of great defence and movement.

Lim-Dul
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Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.02

Post by Lim-Dul »

I want to see somebody beating SurvivalXtreme Mad Mode WITHOUT 800 gp starting money (I mean the "old" unmodified SX on SurvivalXtremeStronghold). ;-)
If the initial hordes of creeps don't kill you the mobile bosses spawning at the end of turn 21 will because you will be simply too weak to kill them.
War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell
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Project StD - Save the Drakes - we want more branches! =)

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ylmson
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Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.02

Post by ylmson »

Hey,

Just wanted you guys to know that there's a modded macro for SurvivalXtreme available.

http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=20633

It is mostly backward compatible with the existing one (besides the experience tweaks) so it can be applied onto any survival map (just overwrite the macro file and follow the instructions). Difficulty is controlled through initial gold as well as experience modifier. So far it's been play-tested on various modes a couple of times and it seems to make some difficult modes (e.g. mad) more interesting (even after you lose heros, since a random surviving one might get exp bonus).

Unfortunately the replays I have are too large to be uploaded on forum :( Anyone knows how to share large replays? :?

Riklaunim: I don't think I have enough aptitude or motivation for drawing maps :oops: , but I've been having fun with WML. Maybe with your new maps and my macros we could take over maintenance of Clonkinator's SX addon on the server. What do you think?
"You may draw, even if you are no artist, and all you have is mspaint and a touchpad."

mihoshi
Posts: 52
Joined: February 16th, 2008, 10:18 pm

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.02

Post by mihoshi »

Lim-Dul wrote:I want to see somebody beating SurvivalXtreme Mad Mode WITHOUT 800 gp starting money (I mean the "old" unmodified SX on SurvivalXtremeStronghold). ;-)
If the initial hordes of creeps don't kill you the mobile bosses spawning at the end of turn 21 will because you will be simply too weak to kill them.
Solo it would be very hard... Especially that first 20 turns. May be with some xtreme build, like 100 res to blade and berserk. Duo it's easier, because second player can be sacrified for a chest:)
21 turn bosses are not that dangerous for a bat, because bat can easily escape them.

Riklaunim
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Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.02

Post by Riklaunim »

ylmson wrote: Riklaunim: I don't think I have enough aptitude or motivation for drawing maps :oops: , but I've been having fun with WML. Maybe with your new maps and my macros we could take over maintenance of Clonkinator's SX addon on the server. What do you think?
If Clonkinator doesn't have any plans for SX we can do few things ;)

****************

I've added a new version of SX SMALL which is very evil - very nice on mad mode. AI gets army buff 1-3 on turn 2 ;)
Attachments
SurvivalXtremeSmall_replay.gz
SX SMALL replay
(192.56 KiB) Downloaded 106 times
SurvivalXtremeSmall.cfg
SX SMALL - very hard
(22.8 KiB) Downloaded 156 times

Lim-Dul
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Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.02

Post by Lim-Dul »

Mihoshi - I still want to see you beating Stronghold on mad mode. Hell - take as many players as you like. Sadly I've been playing with newcomers A LOT and that rarely leads to victory but even with more experienced players it's hard as hell to survive.

The only reliable way of beating Stronghold I found so far is using characters with specialized anti-boss resistances and a creative use of the Skirmish ability which I won't spoil for you.

Replays are welcome. ^^
War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell
--
Project StD - Save the Drakes - we want more branches! =)

Riklaunim
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Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.02

Post by Riklaunim »

Lim-Dul wrote:The only reliable way of beating Stronghold I found so far is using characters with specialized anti-boss resistances and a creative use of the Skirmish ability which I won't spoil for you.
2x shaman, 1x skeleton (berserk pierce blade), 1x fencer (berserk impact) and you are ready to kill.

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ylmson
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Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.02

Post by ylmson »

Riklaunim wrote: If Clonkinator doesn't have any plans for SX we can do few things ;)
Why, even if he wants to abandon it we can start a new project, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't. :lol2: I was just seeing Darth Jordius's post and your response:
Riklaunim wrote:Well I'm not realy a WML expert ;) I can do something with the SX maps but hacking SX macros etc would be to much for me :)
and felt like I can provide adequate support on the WML respect. If you take a look at my post I have actually rewritten some of Clonkinator's code to make it more compact and easier to maintain. As long as he does not mind, like Darth Jordius suggested, I see a whole lot of other things we can possibly improve.

Players have come up with many ideas, some of which can be continually added to SX and I'm sure you played enough SX games to be able to work out the proper balancing for stats and map when I implement changes.
"You may draw, even if you are no artist, and all you have is mspaint and a touchpad."

Darth Jordius
Posts: 399
Joined: September 17th, 2007, 4:53 pm
Location: 2 miles southeast of the Middle of Nowhere

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.02

Post by Darth Jordius »

I'm not so sure that Clonkinator has given up on BfW, I'm just wondering if he is still alive. Try emailing him, he didn't respond to me. So far as I know he wouldn't mind people taking over the project and adding to it. Thanks for SX_Small by the way, it's a bit more challenging than I anticipated. Still trying to solo it.

I decided to try it on normal with all five units, and beat it in 19 turns (Though I sacrificed a WC). I like the boss changes, but there are so many units at the beginning that are available to kill that leveling from 0-3 can happen in one turn, and gold is readily available.
Quiz wrote:You are a Dwarvish Fighter. You're surly and handy with an axe. Go chop some trees.
Check out Quietus's Minotaurs!

nataS
Posts: 166
Joined: January 28th, 2008, 3:21 pm

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.02

Post by nataS »

DJ wrote:I'm not so sure that Clonkinator has given up on BfW, I'm just wondering if he is still alive. Try emailing him, he didn't respond to me.
If you check his profile, it appears he logged in only a few days ago. So this must mean he is still alive! Great news indeed!! And even visits the forum to check on us. I hope he's ok :!:

Darth Jordius
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Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.02

Post by Darth Jordius »

Yay, that means he's only lurking! :P

But I do remember him saying one time that he wasn't very interested in BfW anymore. Perhaps that's just it.
Quiz wrote:You are a Dwarvish Fighter. You're surly and handy with an axe. Go chop some trees.
Check out Quietus's Minotaurs!

mihoshi
Posts: 52
Joined: February 16th, 2008, 10:18 pm

Re: SurvivalXtreme: Version 2.02

Post by mihoshi »

Lim-Dul wrote: The only reliable way of beating Stronghold I found so far is using characters with specialized anti-boss resistances and a creative use of the Skirmish ability which I won't spoil for you.
On MAD with 400 and no corpse looting? I tried with solo dwarf, dragged util about turn 12, but then AI was powering up too fast. Other problem is that AI adjust units to enemy resistances - if you buy all blade it will hire impact, if you have both high impact and blade - he will hite paladins (ouch).I'll try it with mixed defence players.

Skirmish is nice for picking enemies according to unit's resistances, but problem is that skirmishers have awful resistances. Except saurians, may be...

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