number of units/power of units

[Haibane]

... you'd also waste the XP of the just killed unit (which has a high chance to level a Goblin btw, making the whole point moot).

That's why.

We seem to have a different opinion on standard mp games I guess.

Could be, as for me it means 2vs2 with 2g and 70%

Hard to say anything against your all powerful attacker. Seems he is unstoppable with or without the change.

Nah, that's not the point

Your enemy is wounded and swarms you so you have trouble finding free hexes to attack from (probably also at your best ToD)? That's not a special case?

May we have a different opinion about definition of special case too, but I can imagine more similar situations

Anyway, I don't like these hypothetical discussions. Let's just agree to having different opinions on the impact of that change and be happy that no one is actually considering to implement it.

Good, glad to hear it

[deoxy]

Yes, that's what he was saying, and he gave a good example of how it would affect gameplay fairly seriously in some cases.

Some cases being the keywords here. The effects might be considered serious in some rare cases but they are rare. I'm talking about standard multiplayer games btw, not some special scenarios/settings where you constantly kill hords of units.

Having to choose whether to attack a 1 HP thing and kill it or take a swing at a ful HP thing you really want to put a lot of hurt on is "rare"? It happens all the time to me...

And the problem you put forward is actually quite a bit simpler: you may continue the attack you started, regardless of leveling in the middle. On a 4-4 attack, you kill the first unit with 2 attacks and level... now you've got a 5-5 attack instead. You may take a 4-2 attack against an adjacent enemy for free, because that's what you've got left from the first one.

I wouldn't call that simple. Not from an interface, gameplay or programming perspective. The KISS solution IMO would be to just stay with the current behaviour and let the strikes go to waste in this case.

Actually, being a programmer myself, I would think it would be quite easy - before any attack, copy the attack information (damage, type, # of swings) into a variable. After each swing, reduce the # of swings in the variable. If the attack kills, allow the unit to make another attack with what's left in th variable.

Granted, I haven't looked at the actual Wesnoth code (I'd like to when I get some time... whenever that might be), but if this were to be implemented in any form or fashion, that would be the easiest way, which solves the leveling problem.

I understand that this is incredibly unlikely to be implemented... I started this discussion to gain understanding of Wesnoth development philosophy, not really to change it.

[irrevenant]

... (Berserker seems appropriate).

I agree with Soliton here, ulfseker/berseker would be very inappropriate

Mostly I meant in lieu of the current Berserk ability, but I disagree that adding this ability to the existing berserker would be a problem.

If (a) such a unit existed and (b) an Undead player facing a Knalgan player is stupid enough to cluster a bunch of Dark Adepts together then they deserve to be slaughtered. It's a very obscure mistake, and it's not a mistake anyone will make twice. (b) is pretty darn stupid even without such a unit in play.

Most of the tactics in Wesnoth revolve around exploiting the weaknesses of enemy units and defending the weaknesses of your own.

Btw may I found another problem (or advantage ?), it would be possible to attack some almost dead unit with some lvl0 (weak) unit, kill it and than attack some strong unit to harm it, suicide your lvl0 and make free space for another unit/attack.

Sure. But this just seems like smart tactical play, not an exploit...

[Na'enthos]

I agree with Soliton here, ulfseker/berseker would be very inappropriate

Mostly I meant in lieu of the current Berserk ability, but I disagree that adding this ability to the existing berserker would be a problem.

If (a) such a unit existed and (b) an Undead player facing a Knalgan player is stupid enough to cluster a bunch of Dark Adepts together then they deserve to be slaughtered. It's a very obscure mistake, and it's not a mistake anyone will make twice. (b) is pretty darn stupid even without such a unit in play.

Most of the tactics in Wesnoth revolve around exploiting the weaknesses of enemy units and defending the weaknesses of your own.

Btw may I found another problem (or advantage ?), it would be possible to attack some almost dead unit with some lvl0 (weak) unit, kill it and than attack some strong unit to harm it, suicide your lvl0 and make free space for another unit/attack.

Sure. But this just seems like smart tactical play, not an exploit...

Good points. In this way (as it is now), more expensive and powerful units can be tackled or severely hindered by a load of lower level units.

Personally, though, I wouldn't mind to have some specialties which increase the tactical options with a few select more powerful units who don't have a speciality yet. Something like what is proposed here or like skirmisher. But then, I like big units.

[UngeheuerLich]

as if berserker vs adept isn´t already a good counter...

you always have to fear losing an adept due to a fast berserker... the only think you can do is have a ghost ready to counterattack and take revenge... if the berserker can attack the next unit, he can chose how to die, or even kill again... no thx.

rather add such a special to a different unit.

[irrevenant]

BTW, as associated with the Berserker (either as an additional ability or replacement for the current one), I would not envision this ability letting you choose who to attack next - it would always use all attacks and would choose an adjacent foe at random.

[deoxy]

BTW, as associated with the Berserker (either as an additional ability or replacement for the current one), I would not envision this ability letting you choose who to attack next - it would always use all attacks and would choose an adjacent foe at random.

Yes, that would be the right way to do it.

Perhaps this whole thing could just be implemented as an ability. Most units wouldn't benefit from it all that much, anyway.

[rand]

My .02 on this is that it is already quite challenging to successfully use the cheap (lvl 0) units in the game, and a skill focused on weeding them out would take away from some of the uniqueness of undead/northerners. In fact some encouragement (in a balanced way) of "horde-building" as a faction-trait for those two factions might even be desirable.