My "best units" awards.

General feedback and discussion of the game.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Beholder
Posts: 169
Joined: January 30th, 2007, 4:20 am

My "best units" awards.

Post by Beholder » April 27th, 2007, 4:06 am

If I could make a mixed army with a bit of every army, it would be as follow...

Best Scout - Drake Glider

Huge range, flying, and a always good Marksman ranged attack, it let the others scout lagging behind.


Best Fighter - Elf Fighter

Ranged and melee, good defense and most important, just 14 gold. I like my frontline strong but expendable.


Best Ranged - Orcish Archer

The fire attack is what make the deal for this one. With both piercing, slashing and fire damage, there is little a Orcish Archer can't kill, and lvl come quickly with these dudes. High HP and defense on Mountains close the deal.


Best Tank - Troll

The resistance of a Heavy Infantary with the Regeneration of a Wose, but wihtout being slow or inflamable... for 13g.


Best Caster - Sauron Augur. He heals, he deals damage, he is *very* easy to level.


I guess a army like that would be somehow imbalanced thou...

User avatar
Sapient
Inactive Developer
Posts: 4453
Joined: November 26th, 2005, 7:41 am
Contact:

Post by Sapient » April 27th, 2007, 5:12 am

Here are my picks:

Best Scout+Fighter - Drake Fighter

Why get a scout or a fighter when you can get a cool hybrid! This is a great multi-purpose unit.

Best Ranged - Elvish Archer

Fantastic movement, lots of ranged damage (especially if they are dextrous), and 70% defense on Forest Tiles-- which are usually far more numerous than mountain tiles.

Best Tank - Troll

I'm agreeing on this one, and for the same reasons.

Best Caster - Dark Adept.

Most magic damage per gold... enough said.
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/User:Sapient... "Looks like your skills saved us again. Uh, well at least, they saved Soarin's apple pie."

Beholder
Posts: 169
Joined: January 30th, 2007, 4:20 am

Post by Beholder » April 27th, 2007, 5:55 am

I will say why I prefer the Glider then the Fighter.

I can use the Glider to capture enemy villages before he reach then on some maps. Plus the Glider range is SO huge it's very hard to defend unoccupied villages.

Radament
Posts: 136
Joined: January 14th, 2007, 12:50 pm
Location: Germaica

Post by Radament » April 27th, 2007, 3:01 pm

Difficult to say.
Best ranged, for instance, could be the Elvish Archer, yet their arrows barely itch a skelly, while on the other hand orc archers shatter them. Dealing with cavalrymen though it's the other way around.

There can't be no best in any category I think. Favorites are another thing though, and here's my fav's, not considering efficiency or whatever, just my biased opinion.

Favorite Scout: Footpad
Ranged: Orcish Assasin
Fighter: Elvish Fighter
Tank: Wose
Magic: Augur
Elusivefoot: Thief

User avatar
zookeeper
WML Wizard
Posts: 9740
Joined: September 11th, 2004, 10:40 pm
Location: Finland

Post by zookeeper » April 27th, 2007, 3:53 pm

Beholder wrote:If I could make a mixed army with a bit of every army, it would be as follow...
http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15763!

Ultimatum479
Posts: 188
Joined: March 31st, 2007, 3:53 pm
Location: The Void, usually.

Post by Ultimatum479 » April 27th, 2007, 4:28 pm

The best advantage of any army is versatility. Unless you set a maximum number of recruits we can choose, this doesn't quite work. Everyone's using different amounts, and more is always better.

So, since the original post used 5, I'll go with those same categories...

Best Scout: Ghost
The Footpad is a close second for its price, but Ghost draining adds so wonderfully to their survivability against other low-level units -- if you want your scout to take villages, he's got to be able to survive on them for at least one turn if attacked, right? The Gryphon Rider's nice melee damage is a useful deterrent against attackers, but it's even more expensive than a Ghost. Gliders tend to die too quickly on me, and a Lawful scout doesn't work well with my other choices.

Best Fighter: Elf Fighter
I'll have to agree with that choice, and for the same reasons. The Ulfserker is a close second, but its lack of a third level is annoying, since it's a unit which tends to either level a lot or die a lot.

Best Ranged: Dwarvish Thunderer
Thunderers are hard to level, but once you do, it's totally worth it. Their melee attacks get powerful enough that people start to fear attacking them on mountains, giving them some degree of solo survivability, and there's nothing which scares off an attacking group of ranged units more than a Thunderguard sitting on a mountain right next to the village they're trying to take.

Best Tank: Troll
Again, agreement, same reasons.

Best Caster: Saurian Augur
Again...Same reasons.

Using six like Radament, I'd have to add one more unit to the group:

Dwarvish Ulfserker
Nothing picks off weakened troops better. 'Nuff said. That damned lack of a third level is the only thing wrong with the unit.
Chosen to be: Avatar of the God of Vengeance

Duty-bound to be: Last chance for the oppressed non-humans of the world

Accidentally became: Co-founder of the Council of Linac Mux

Self-nominated (pending election): Forum SUPERMOD!

User avatar
Noyga
Inactive Developer
Posts: 1790
Joined: September 26th, 2005, 5:56 pm
Location: France

Post by Noyga » April 27th, 2007, 4:33 pm

Here's my pick :
Scout : Footpad
Fighter : Dwarvish fighter
Archer : Elvish Archer
Tank : Cavalryman
"Caster" : Orcish Assassin
Air/Water : Naga
Other : Thief
"Ooh, man, my mage had a 30% chance to miss, but he still managed to hit! Awesome!" ;) -- xtifr

Ultimatum479
Posts: 188
Joined: March 31st, 2007, 3:53 pm
Location: The Void, usually.

Post by Ultimatum479 » April 27th, 2007, 4:38 pm

See my point? The more units from which you can choose, the better the army.

If I can have 7 like Noyga, add the Ghoul to my list.
Chosen to be: Avatar of the God of Vengeance

Duty-bound to be: Last chance for the oppressed non-humans of the world

Accidentally became: Co-founder of the Council of Linac Mux

Self-nominated (pending election): Forum SUPERMOD!

Radament
Posts: 136
Joined: January 14th, 2007, 12:50 pm
Location: Germaica

Post by Radament » April 27th, 2007, 6:24 pm

i think i'll post my spicy "least fav units" list here too.

scout: vampire bat
ranged: burner
fighter: mermen fighter
tank: HI
magic: mage
elusivefoot: i like all elusivefoots. maybe fencer.

User avatar
turin
Lord of the East
Posts: 11662
Joined: January 11th, 2004, 7:17 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by turin » April 27th, 2007, 7:24 pm

I reiterate to you Zookeeper's post. ;)
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm

Velensk
Multiplayer Contributor
Posts: 3987
Joined: January 24th, 2007, 12:56 am

Post by Velensk » April 27th, 2007, 7:30 pm

My Favorites unit by catagory (Cost was taken into account for these choices.)

Line holders- Trolls, Dwarvish Guardsman, (tie)
Couter attack threat- Horseman, Ulfserker (another tie)
Scouts- Elvish scout
Conventinal fighter- elvish fighter dwarvish fighter (tie)
Minor artilery, Elvish archer
Heavy artilery- Dark adept
Supportunit- saurian auger
Other- thief,

Honorable mention...
Saurians skirmisher
Cavalryman
Spearman
Footpad
Orcish assassin

Least favoite unit by catagory (cost was included in these dicisions

Line holder, dark adept
Couterattack threat, goblin spearman,
Scout, Wose
Conventinal fighter, Walking corpse
Light artilery, Spearman
Heavy artilery, dwarvish gaurdsman
Support unit, bat
Other, peasant
................................
Last edited by Velensk on April 28th, 2007, 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

Beholder
Posts: 169
Joined: January 30th, 2007, 4:20 am

Post by Beholder » April 27th, 2007, 8:56 pm

Ultimatum479 wrote:The best advantage of any army is versatility. Unless you set a maximum number of recruits we can choose, this doesn't quite work. Everyone's using different amounts, and more is always better.

So, since the original post used 5, I'll go with those same categories...

Best Scout: Ghost
The Footpad is a close second for its price, but Ghost draining adds so wonderfully to their survivability against other low-level units -- if you want your scout to take villages, he's got to be able to survive on them for at least one turn if attacked, right? The Gryphon Rider's nice melee damage is a useful deterrent against attackers, but it's even more expensive than a Ghost. Gliders tend to die too quickly on me, and a Lawful scout doesn't work well with my other choices.


Best Ranged: Dwarvish Thunderer
Thunderers are hard to level, but once you do, it's totally worth it. Their melee attacks get powerful enough that people start to fear attacking them on mountains, giving them some degree of solo survivability, and there's nothing which scares off an attacking group of ranged units more than a Thunderguard sitting on a mountain right next to the village they're trying to take.
I need to comment 2 of these.

Mmm. the ghost is really a interesting idea. I'd like to have a Ghost on my army whitout doubt.. but I don't know if he is a *scout* unit. specially since the Undead have Bats (which sucks!).


On Ranged you choose exactly the one I like less, let me explain...

Let say the enemy retreats a nearly dead unit to a House and I can shoot him with my Thunderer. The unit is almost dead so I just need to do mininal damage to kill him...

...with most ranged units I have 3 or 4 chances to kill him, but with the Thunderer is all or nothing. On this case I end up resorting to this dagger, making me see him sometimes more like a melee unit.

And adding a last thing about the Glider...

On most maps, I can ping-pong from one village to another. If the enemy approaches I fly away to greener pastures. He is good to finishing units too with its huge range and Marksman ability.

Now, the units which can catch me are Ghosts, Drakes and Elvish Scouts. Ghosts are weak versus fire, Gryphons are weak versus blunt damage and the Elvish Scout can't kill me in one turn and doesn't fly.

User avatar
Jetrel
Art Director
Posts: 7242
Joined: February 23rd, 2004, 3:36 am
Location: Midwest US

Post by Jetrel » April 27th, 2007, 10:11 pm

Here are my picks:

Best Scout+Fighter - Horseman

A competent scout, but also a tremendous melee unit (in many situations). Also one of the most durable scouts, as it's resistant to blade and impact. Many scouts are never especially great at combat; this one is useful even in situations where you don't need to scout.


Best Ranged - Elvish Archer

Fantastic movement, lots of ranged damage (especially if they are dextrous), and 70% defense on Forest Tiles-- which are usually far more numerous than mountain tiles. Excellent upgrade path.

Best Tank - Troll/Wose

I'm torn. Both excel in areas where the other sucks; for example, woses do just fine in water/swamp. Regen is just perfect for a tank.


Best Caster - Elvish Shaman

Has some of the best defense of any caster, and thus stays alive. Bad damage at L1, but can empower other units to go head-to-head in melee they'd normally not touch (e.g, horseman attacking a slowed pierce unit, wose attacking a blade/fire unit, etc). At higher levels, it does tons of damage, and also gets fairly decent at melee (as well as getting great movement).

Ultimatum479
Posts: 188
Joined: March 31st, 2007, 3:53 pm
Location: The Void, usually.

Post by Ultimatum479 » April 28th, 2007, 12:09 am

Beholder wrote:Mmm. the ghost is really a interesting idea. I'd like to have a Ghost on my army whitout doubt.. but I don't know if he is a *scout* unit. specially since the Undead have Bats (which sucks!).
Yes. Bats aren't that good, as you said. Thus, I consider the Ghost to be the real Undead scout unit.
Beholder wrote:Let say the enemy retreats a nearly dead unit to a House and I can shoot him with my Thunderer. The unit is almost dead so I just need to do mininal damage to kill him...

...with most ranged units I have 3 or 4 chances to kill him, but with the Thunderer is all or nothing. On this case I end up resorting to this dagger, making me see him sometimes more like a melee unit.
Quite true. But that's what the Scout and Melee units are for. The Thunderer is really a protective deterrent unit: I use him to add some muscle to my ZoCs, cuz people don't like risking an assault on a unit which can pretty much kill their own troops in one hit. Plus, as I mentioned, as they level up their melee attacks become lethal as well, making up for their high initial cost.
Beholder wrote:On most maps, I can ping-pong from one village to another [with the Drake Glider]. If the enemy approaches I fly away to greener pastures. He is good to finishing units too with its huge range and Marksman ability.

Now, the units which can catch me are Ghosts, Drakes and Elvish Scouts. Ghosts are weak versus fire, Gryphons are weak versus blunt damage and the Elvish Scout can't kill me in one turn and doesn't fly.
Ghosts are weak to fire, yes, but Drakes are weak to cold, so they're even in that regard. Whichever attacks first has the advantage: the Glider will use its ranged marksman attack, while the Ghost will use its melee drain attack. However, Ghosts survive better against most units than Gliders by far. Drain > marksman in my opinion.
Jetryl wrote:Best Scout+Fighter - Horseman

A competent scout, but also a tremendous melee unit (in many situations). Also one of the most durable scouts, as it's resistant to blade and impact. Many scouts are never especially great at combat; this one is useful even in situations where you don't need to scout.
Huh. Charge just too luck-dependent for my crappy luck, sadly. When I attack with Horsemen, I invariably tend to miss with my attacks and get pwnt on the x2 counter-attack.
Jetryl wrote:Best Ranged - Elvish Archer

Fantastic movement, lots of ranged damage (especially if they are dextrous), and 70% defense on Forest Tiles-- which are usually far more numerous than mountain tiles. Excellent upgrade path.
I'd go with the Orcish Archer for damage (due to variable types) and upgradability (though that one's arguable). The Archer's got the edge in movement, true.
Jetryl wrote:Best Tank - Troll/Wose

I'm torn. Both excel in areas where the other sucks; for example, woses do just fine in water/swamp. Regen is just perfect for a tank.
Regen...+8 healing that doesn't stack with other forms of healing or with villages (only with the +2 for resting). Tanks are often left on villages to guard the villages, so they'll get the +8 healing anyway. You know, I think I'll change my Best Tank award to the Dwarvish Guardsman.
Jetryl wrote:Best Caster - Elvish Shaman

Has some of the best defense of any caster, and thus stays alive. Bad damage at L1, but can empower other units to go head-to-head in melee they'd normally not touch (e.g, horseman attacking a slowed pierce unit, wose attacking a blade/fire unit, etc). At higher levels, it does tons of damage, and also gets fairly decent at melee (as well as getting great movement).
Must agree that slow pwns with the right friendly units, but I dunno about with the Rebel faction. When we're making our own factions in this thread or in that era of zookeeper's I just downloaded, yes, a level 1 unit with slow is mighty helpful. I'd still go with the Augur, though, for that wonderfully awesome magical attack.
Chosen to be: Avatar of the God of Vengeance

Duty-bound to be: Last chance for the oppressed non-humans of the world

Accidentally became: Co-founder of the Council of Linac Mux

Self-nominated (pending election): Forum SUPERMOD!

Velensk
Multiplayer Contributor
Posts: 3987
Joined: January 24th, 2007, 12:56 am

Post by Velensk » April 28th, 2007, 1:04 am

When casting my vote for best support unit I was torn between the auger and the shaman. I disided that magical attack was nicer than slow. but shaman had more hp and was cheaper. I choose the auger because they wenr't nutural which is a good thing for a unit designed to attack. I also liked the defences/movment better.

As for tanks, or line holders as I said. I think for the gold cost trolls can't be beat. I like gaurdsman for style and for effect. I outted woses because of their exploitable vunerabilities, and their low def everywhere including their best terrain.

For counter attack threat, what I meant was that your enemy has to work to try to figure out an attack where he won't be cut down the next turn. An ulfserker can automaticaly take out pretty much any "artilery" type unit, but horseman are fast, thus able to get around lines, and can be a threat to melle orientated units as well.

For the conventinal fighter I was talking spearman, skeloton, elvish fighter ect. Of all of these, Drake fighters double as a scout and cost accordingly makeing them not quite as good as a "conventinal" fighter. Skelotons are frailer, and have exploitable weaknesses, grunts are good for their cost however I would not put them in for best. This leaves spearman, elves and dwarves. I think that elvish fighter are a step over spearman, at the cost of a few hp and nutruality they are faster in woodland/high def and have a superior ranged attack. Woodlands are fairly common. I think that all and all dwarvish fighters are the best conventinal fighter. For though they lack a ranged attack and have one less mp. They have one of the best move types in the game, they have great hp/resistance, they fight extremly well on hills and mountains. However also cost 16... I personaly could not decide between the two so I choose both.

I choose the elvish scout because of the following factors, Great movment especialy over woods, melle/ranged hybrid. You don't need much else for a scout.

I choose the elvish archer for light artilery, because it funtions on defence (as long as it is in the woods) and deals decent damage with it's bow (especialy if dex) I thought about the orc archer, however in the end due to a veriety of factors I choose the elven one. I also consitered burners, however at the cost I declined. I like thunderers, however they are unreliable.

For heavy artilery, I choose the dark adept, 12-2 (or was it 13-2) magical at night for 16 gold (cheaper than my light artiliery pick) is nothing to be scoffed at. Mages cost 4 more and deal olny slightly more. Saurian augers can't compete in damage. Assassins might compete however I would rather take out the unit quickly than either kill or force a retreat.

I choose thief for my other because I like the gamplay style they bring. For 13 gold you get a unit that has about the survivability of a spearman, (unless quick or against a magician) that has a large damage potential for it's cost if you can monuver yourself to use it's special.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."

Locked