Elvish Illusionist - replacement for the Rebel mage

Gamabunta · Post by **Gamabunta** » September 14th, 2006, 11:59 pm

I always thought the Rebel mage was a little out of place, so I thought of a replacement:

New ability: Illusion
Gains +10% defense when defending, except against units with the "intelligent" trait.

Elvish Illusionist
Level: 1
Cost: 21
Alignment: Neutral
Moves: 5
HP: 22
XP: 50
Advances to: Elvish Conjurer
Abilities: Illusion

Fist (Impact, 3-1, Melee)
Fireflies (Fire, 2-8, Ranged, Magical)

Resistances/Defense/Movement: Same as Elvish Fighter

Description:
Unlike their female counterparts, Elvish Illusionists delve into magic purely for the sheer joy of using it. During battle, they are able to create false images of themselves to fool all but the most keen attackers. Drawing upon the powers of nature, they can create flying, flaming insects to mercilessly harass their enemies. All these fancy tricks come at a cost, however. The intense concentration needed to learn these magicks have left them with little time for physical training.

Elvish Conjurer
Level: 2
Cost: 43
Alignment: Neutral
Moves: 5
HP: 40
Abilities: Illusion

Flash Palm (Fire, 10-1, Melee)
Dragonflies (Fire, 4-7, Ranged, Magical)

Resistances/Defense/Movement: Same as Elvish Fighter

Description:
Illusionists experienced in battle have learnt the importance of physical prowess. In addition to bulking up their physique, they have developed a palm strike that glows white with intense heat. And perhaps to instill further dread into their foes, their flying missiles have taken the form of fearsome dragonflies.

Balance Considerations

Their low attack power is compensated by the occasional dextrous unit, which does 3-8 or 24 max damage for the Illusionist and 5-7 or 35 max damage for the Conjurer. The great defense offered by Illusion is offset by their low hitpoints and enemy intelligent units. The power of the Conjurer as a level 2 unit is balanced by the fact that they can't level up.

MP Usage

They are pretty much a drop-in replacement for the mage, with the added strength against undead because undead are never intelligent.

Campaign Integration

A lone Illusionist could be hidden in a village in the "Drowned Plains" scenario in EI. He will be recallable for the rest of the campaign.

Post by **Kestenvarn** » September 15th, 2006, 12:20 am

This looks pretty damned cool. I like the ability, too.

TheLost1 · Post by **TheLost1** » September 15th, 2006, 12:33 am

yeah i like it to

krazykarl · Post by **krazykarl** » September 15th, 2006, 12:41 am

Looks great!
But I think that the melee attack should be magical.

Just my 2 cents

Lord_Aether · Post by **Lord_Aether** » September 15th, 2006, 12:53 am

I like this unit idea, and the neat ability. However, what happens if a marksman or magical attack is used against it? Also, I think that the melee could have a second strike at second level.

Definately better than the mage for Rebelsl.

Post by **Dragonking** » September 15th, 2006, 1:00 am

Terribly underpowered. With such stats it should cost at most 16-17g.

Post by **Noy** » September 15th, 2006, 1:02 am

Yeah sorry to burst your bubble, its not going to happen. One aspect is due to the story aspect of the game (human mages spend time with elves). the other is stylistic as well. Wesnoth was intended to have multiracial factions, with units of different movetypes in a single faction mixing it up. It places more effort on the player to balance his strategy when he doesn't have all units getting 60+ in a forest. Having an all elvish force that have the same movetype is actually boring strategically.

In any case if we were to do this, we would probably use the the Myth, JB, Becephalaus proposal because it would be more balanced than your proposals.

I consider this topic resolved and I'm going to add it to the FPI. Unless you want this for something other than mainline I'll lock the thread after a page or so.

Oreb · Post by **Oreb** » September 15th, 2006, 1:23 am

Yes, though it is a great idea, and a great unit. It wouldn't be included in game. Because of what Noy said.

Gamabunta · Post by **Gamabunta** » September 15th, 2006, 1:46 am

Lord Aether:

Illusions don't work against marksman or magical attacks.

Dragonking:

Their *flies damage can be boosted to 3-8 and 5-7, although they'd be really overpowered with dextrous.

Noy:

Well the mage is the only cross-faction unit, which I thought was quite strange, so I made this in hopes of more consistency.

Although it'd be disappointing somewhat, I don't mind if someone used these units for a non-mainline campaign.

Flametrooper · Post by **Flametrooper** » September 15th, 2006, 3:39 am

Nice unit, if you do art someone will likely put it in a campaign. I think the whole "unless against a unit with Intelligent trait" thing should be removed from the ability though.
(P.S. why does it seem that everyone's so unreceptive to new unit ideas? I don't think I've ever seen one accepted.)

Post by **Baufo** » September 15th, 2006, 4:48 am

I like it. As a true elf player I always hated to have mortals in my army.

Pity it won't be included.

Kel · Post by **Kel** » September 15th, 2006, 4:59 am

RIPLIB!

Gamabunta · Post by **Gamabunta** » September 15th, 2006, 5:30 am

Why is it RIPLIB? The conjurer gets 75% more damage while still getting lots of attacks. If I made it 3-10 or something dextrous units would get a gigantic advantage.

Anyway I'd like to thank everyone for their positive or constructive comments.

Unfortunately I don't have the graphics skill to bring these units to life. I just hope some of the talented artists here take a look at this and create their own interpretations.

Post by **Noy** » September 15th, 2006, 5:32 am

Flametrooper wrote: (P.S. why does it seem that everyone's so unreceptive to new unit ideas? I don't think I've ever seen one accepted.)

Because frankly most of the ideas that get posted in here are of a poor quality, plain and simple. Many times they would upset balance, are not true to the spirit of wesnoth, or just are unworkable. The concept behind this idea is not new or necessarily bad. Actually the reason why I have a prompt answer is because we discussed this issue last month when some respected players put together a very similar proposal for this unit. that proposal was better because it was more balanced to the Mainline than this one, and had at some very interesting aspects to it. However it was rejected for the reasons I stated above.

Plenty of ideas get adopted, but you don't see them. Notice in the case of the previous initative for a elvish mage you didn't hear about it. The ideas that get adopted or seriously consideredare usually done by people who have a track record of bringing up good ideas (and have good knowledge) and/or getting them implemented.

Baufo wrote:I like it. As a true elf player I always hated to have mortals in my army

In your version of wesnoth maybe, but not ours. Delfador anyone?

Lord_Aether · Post by **Lord_Aether** » September 15th, 2006, 6:03 am

Flametrooper wrote:Nice unit, if you do art someone will likely put it in a campaign. I think the whole "unless against a unit with Intelligent trait" thing should be removed from the ability though.
(P.S. why does it seem that everyone's so unreceptive to new unit ideas? I don't think I've ever seen one accepted.)

Goblin Rouser was included fairly quickly. It CAN happen, just not that often.

I have personally never been able to justify buying a mage for 20 gold when I could get an archer with better staying power for 17. Mind you, I'm not the best player(or perhaps even remotely good).